Sinitsina/Katsalapov future prospects

[uhh]

I thought Bobrova/Soloviev only guarantee one event due to Worlds Ranking Top 24. Yanovskaya/Mozgov will have one because they will be WJC. And they will be in Seasons Best Top 75 so ISU can choose them for second event. Bobrova/Soloviev will not be in it If they don't skate this year. Did rules changed? Super news If both guarantee two event.

I'm not sure if B/S would count as a come back couple - they had assignments last year but didn't compete, so does that count as "participating" or not?

“Come-Back” Skaters/Couples: Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6 within the past 10 years at a ISU World Figure Skating Championships) and subsequently did not participate in one or more competitive seasons will be given priority consideration to re-enter the Grand Prix for selection of up to 2 assignments if they commit in writing to participating in 2 Grand Prix events and if such return is announced and confirmed by the date of the annual Selection Meeting.

All I can find for the Junior medalists is that they are "included in the selection process", but I think the year S/B turned senior they only had 1 event. Y/M are pretty high on the SB list though as well, but I can't see anything that would absolutely guarantee them 2 spots.

So potentially they could have to use all of the 3 host picks at Cup of Russia if they wanted to ensure B/S, Y/M and S/K all get 2 grand prixs. However, they also usually have the national champions/who ever is considered Russian no 1, which reduces the host picks they could use for those dance teams, as it's a maximum of 3 teams per country in any event.

 

[Tanka]

I thought Bobrova/Soloviev only guarantee one event due to Worlds Ranking Top 24. Yanovskaya/Mozgov will have one because they will be WJC. And they will be in Seasons Best Top 75 so ISU can choose them for second event. Bobrova/Soloviev will not be in it If they don't skate this year. Did rules changed? Super news If both guarantee two event.

Here is the quote from this year's announcement. They have high priority as Come-Back Skaters if the rules don't change. I doubt they will be restricted to one spot.

2.1 Seeded Skaters/Couples
c) “Come-Back” Skaters/Couples: Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6 within the past 10 years at a ISU World Figure Skating Championships) and subsequently did not participate in one ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating and ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final 2014/15 or more competitive seasons will be given priority consideration to re-enter the Grand Prix for selection of up to 2 assignments if they commit in writing to participating in 2 Grand Prix events and if such return is announced and confirmed by the date of the annual Selection Meeting. (source)

Anyway, I was wrong about Yanovskaya/Mozgov. They are guaranteed to participate, but are not guaranteed of 2 spots.

--
If I refreshed the page before posting I'd save at least 10 minutes.

 

[elif]

I never thought Bobrova/Soloviev as come-back couple because they never actually gone. They entered two GP last year but withdraw because of injury. Not sure ISU will consider them as ''comeback couple'':think:

 

[gmyers]

Katsalapov had a broken foot and couldn't skate for weeks. Next season looks iffy.

 

[tulosai]

I never thought Bobrova/Soloviev as come-back couple because they never actually gone. They entered two GP last year but withdraw because of injury. Not sure ISU will consider them as ''comeback couple'':think:

Under the rules they definitely are a come back couple as long as they commit in writing to skating 2 events this year. They are guaranteed 2 spots.

However, if for whatever reason they weren't they would definitely get 2 spots anyway because Russia would give them the home slot.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Please bear with me because I am not tech savvy in ice dance at all. However, I have just watched the NHK dance of this couple. I hadn't seen it before. Many are categorising it as a disaster and so I was expecting real awfulness, but I didn't really experience that. Yes, there were two obvious dreadful mistakes. On the other hand, the rest seemed fairly smooth and well skated, especially before the fall. Tbh, I don't really care about either these two or I/Z so I have no axe to grind, but these two seemed less ragged than sometimes I/Z seemed at Worlds. I don't know whether it was just the style that didn't appeal, but I/Z seemed rather frantic and sloppy in their movements at times.

So, am I completely clueless (believe me I probably am! Lol) and am I completely mistaken in saying that all is not hopeless with these two?

 

[sisinka]

Katsalapov had a broken foot and couldn't skate for weeks. Next season looks iffy.

He was 3 weeks out of the ice.

Quiqie translated an interview of Victoria and Nikita, who spent 2 weeks in Moscow in these days.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ring-2015-part-two.95045/page-24#post-4512625

 

[chameleon]

No, they aren't hopeless. They have potential. However, they really, really need to get the tech side down. They will have had more time than the others to prepare for the GP season, so we will see how much they've improved.

They skated with a lot more fire at NHK than they did at CoR, but you could see them, especially her, making tiny mistakes as a result. I don't think they're at all hopeless, but the reports from Marina don't fill me with confidence in her ability to put this team together.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

So, as I am not tech savvy, would you mind expounding on what mistakes, besides the obvious two errors, were made at NHK when you have time from this vid with rough times so I can look and learn? Thanks if you or someone could!

 

[Tanka]

So, as I am not tech savvy, would you mind expounding on what mistakes, besides the obvious two errors, were made at NHK when you have time from this vid with rough times so I can look and learn? Thanks if you or someone could!

Sisinka already did it last year in NHK thread: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Dance-11-29&p=1035668&viewfull=1#post1035668

 

[bramweld]

It is only a small injury many persons have these, we just never hear about it. He's on the mend now, they will progress.

 

[uhh]

So, as I am not tech savvy, would you mind expounding on what mistakes, besides the obvious two errors, were made at NHK when you have time from this vid with rough times so I can look and learn? Thanks if you or someone could!

The times here are very rough!

On the spin at 2:30-39 Nikita doesn't hold his sit positions long enough to count for the difficult variation & the camel position has no difficult variation - they have Victoria's layback, but as they are doing an Option 1 combination spin, only having 1 difficult variation means that they can't get higher than level 1. On the rotational lift, Nikita checks his rotation twice, when she changes position at 4.14 and at 4.18 - for it to be a level two, I'm guessing the panel didn't count the last rotation at all, then deducted the level for the 1st rotation check to make it a level 2. These aren't major major errors, but they had them on pretty much every occasion they competed, and it's basic stuff that a coach should have addressed after the first time they did it.

As for the footwork, you can't see the edges constantly to pick up exactly where they go wrong, but sisinka is right in saying their edges are weaker and lighter, particularly as they reach the end of their sequences, because they aren't carrying any speed through their turns. You can see some little bobbles here and there, like Victoria's exit edge from her back 3 turn at 1:39. Again, they had this problem all the way thorough the season - I think at Nats they even had the first sequence called as just basic, not even level 1, although I can't find the protocols to confirm it. But on the face of it, it looked smooth and well done - but from my experience at my very low level of skating, it's easier to make stuff look superficially good if you aren't really pushing to have every turn clean and precise, with deep edges and good speed.

I think a bigger overall problem for them is that they are struggling in hold. They have good speed when they are stroking together, they are OK in the NtStSq in the SD, but once they get into hold and start doing their step sequence they lose all their momentum, they skate far apart from each other (this is an issue Nikita also had with Elena) and so by the end of each sequence it really seems to be a struggle. I think at the moment maybe S/K match stylewise a little better than I/Z - Elena is a very classical ballet type skater & her movements are very placed, where as Ruslan is a bit looser & freer, so sometimes things look a bit ragged. But I/Z have the basics down, they have the ability to hit their technical requirements, and if you closely compare their FD step sequences to S/K's, you really see the difference in speed & precision in their feet.

 

[bramweld]

The times here are very rough!

On the spin at 2:30-39 Nikita doesn't hold his sit positions long enough to count for the difficult variation & the camel position has no difficult variation - they have Victoria's layback, but as they are doing an Option 1 combination spin, only having 1 difficult variation means that they can't get higher than level 1. On the rotational lift, Nikita checks his rotation twice, when she changes position at 4.14 and at 4.18 - for it to be a level two, I'm guessing the panel didn't count the last rotation at all, then deducted the level for the 1st rotation check to make it a level 2. These aren't major major errors, but they had them on pretty much every occasion they competed, and it's basic stuff that a coach should have addressed after the first time they did it.

As for the footwork, you can't see the edges constantly to pick up exactly where they go wrong, but sisinka is right in saying their edges are weaker and lighter, particularly as they reach the end of their sequences, because they aren't carrying any speed through their turns. You can see some little bobbles here and there, like Victoria's exit edge from her back 3 turn at 1:39. Again, they had this problem all the way thorough the season - I think at Nats they even had the first sequence called as just basic, not even level 1, although I can't find the protocols to confirm it. But on the face of it, it looked smooth and well done - but from my experience at my very low level of skating, it's easier to make stuff look superficially good if you aren't really pushing to have every turn clean and precise, with deep edges and good speed.

I think a bigger overall problem for them is that they are struggling in hold. They have good speed when they are stroking together, they are OK in the NtStSq in the SD, but once they get into hold and start doing their step sequence they lose all their momentum, they skate far apart from each other (this is an issue Nikita also had with Elena) and so by the end of each sequence it really seems to be a struggle. I think at the moment maybe S/K match stylewise a little better than I/Z - Elena is a very classical ballet type skater & her movements are very placed, where as Ruslan is a bit looser & freer, so sometimes things look a bit ragged. But I/Z have the basics down, they have the ability to hit their technical requirements, and if you closely compare their FD step sequences to S/K's, you really see the difference in speed & precision in their feet.

True, in the horrifically choreographed FD their styles were poorly blended. It's like Ilia was putting together a program for I/K. K and Z are two completely different entities. However in the SD Najarro blended their styles beautifully. S/K had well choreographed programs last season.

 

[moriel]

I actually worry now
Because all those things uhh listed... I have a feeling their coach just doesnt see it - and its where all the "they skate great in practice" come from.
hope thats not the case, they are an interesting couple, and would be great if they actually managed to work it out =S

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Thank you Uhh, that was so helpful. I see a lot of what you are saying. Struggling a bit more on seeing the bobbles in the step sequence because I don't have enough experience at looking at the feet and edging and knowing what I am looking for, but I will hopefully learn a bit more now I am frequenting here! *g* Thanks, Tanka, also for reccing sisinka's post.

 

[chameleon]

True, in the horrifically choreographed FD their styles were poorly blended. It's like Ilia was putting together a program for I/K. K and Z are two completely different entities. However in the SD Najarro blended their styles beautifully. S/K had well choreographed programs last season.

I don't really think I saw anything in the FD that reminded me of Nikita's style. And I certainly wouldn't call it horrific.

I'm not so sure that Elena and Ruslan are mismatched either. They do contrast in some interesting ways, but I've never felt like their styles were wrong for each other. One thing for sure though is that they can both dance very well, which is a lovely quality that I find lacking in many other teams.


As for S/K, more than one person has voiced their concerns about Marina coaching them. She's more the person that puts the bow on top rather than build the foundation, and so far it's showing. Maybe all these months of training will have improved them significantly, but what I found concerning was that there were so many things that were fixable that just weren't fixed.

 

[Weathergal]

Also I noticed in the translated article (linked to a few posts ago) that when discussing regrouping and preparing early for next season, I/K seemed to focus on their new choreography, which, of course, is important, but they didn't really discuss addressing their technical issues so much. I hope that's just because they're excited about the new choreography and not because working on technical issues isn't their focus...

 

[gmyers]

Also I noticed in the translated article (linked to a few posts ago) that when discussing regrouping and preparing early for next season, I/K seemed to focus on their new choreography, which, of course, is important, but they didn't really discuss addressing their technical issues so much. I hope that's just because they're excited about the new choreography and not because working on technical issues isn't their focus...

This is the biggest concern whenever they return. Their biggest problem is tech. Try can't even Go to worlds. So in any interview you would expect non stop talk about getting sd tech minimum from them but they never even mention it.

 

[gmyers]

The times here are very rough!

On the spin at 2:30-39 Nikita doesn't hold his sit positions long enough to count for the difficult variation & the camel position has no difficult variation - they have Victoria's layback, but as they are doing an Option 1 combination spin, only having 1 difficult variation means that they can't get higher than level 1. On the rotational lift, Nikita checks his rotation twice, when she changes position at 4.14 and at 4.18 - for it to be a level two, I'm guessing the panel didn't count the last rotation at all, then deducted the level for the 1st rotation check to make it a level 2. These aren't major major errors, but they had them on pretty much every occasion they competed, and it's basic stuff that a coach should have addressed after the first time they did it.

As for the footwork, you can't see the edges constantly to pick up exactly where they go wrong, but sisinka is right in saying their edges are weaker and lighter, particularly as they reach the end of their sequences, because they aren't carrying any speed through their turns. You can see some little bobbles here and there, like Victoria's exit edge from her back 3 turn at 1:39. Again, they had this problem all the way thorough the season - I think at Nats they even had the first sequence called as just basic, not even level 1, although I can't find the protocols to confirm it. But on the face of it, it looked smooth and well done - but from my experience at my very low level of skating, it's easier to make stuff look superficially good if you aren't really pushing to have every turn clean and precise, with deep edges and good speed.

I think a bigger overall problem for them is that they are struggling in hold. They have good speed when they are stroking together, they are OK in the NtStSq in the SD, but once they get into hold and start doing their step sequence they lose all their momentum, they skate far apart from each other (this is an issue Nikita also had with Elena) and so by the end of each sequence it really seems to be a struggle. I think at the moment maybe S/K match stylewise a little better than I/Z - Elena is a very classical ballet type skater & her movements are very placed, where as Ruslan is a bit looser & freer, so sometimes things look a bit ragged. But I/Z have the basics down, they have the ability to hit their technical requirements, and if you closely compare their FD step sequences to S/K's, you really see the difference in speed & precision in their feet.

http://fsrussia.ru/files/docs/competitons/1415/rusnat1415_protocol.pdf

Level 1 in steps in fd and pattern in sd. They need basic competence in steps.

 

[uhh]

I don't really think I saw anything in the FD that reminded me of Nikita's style. And I certainly wouldn't call it horrific.

I thought it was quite Ave Maria-ish, but that's not really Elena or Nikita's "style", just generic ice dance dreck when the choreographer doesn't really know what to do with the team they have.

I'm not so sure that Elena and Ruslan are mismatched either. They do contrast in some interesting ways, but I've never felt like their styles were wrong for each other. One thing for sure though is that they can both dance very well, which is a lovely quality that I find lacking in many other teams.

I didn't mean to say they are mismatched, I need to be more careful with my words! It's more that if you asked them to go out and just skate freely, not worrying about matching a partner, they'd look quite different, where as I think Nikita & Victoria have more similarities in the way they naturally move. But you're right, Elena & Ruslan's big advantage is that they are both dancers and seem to be able to adapt to lots of different styles - so when the choreography & approach is right, they look great together, like in their SD. The thing that most impresses me about Ruslan is the way he makes every SD that he's done look different, he can really absorb the feeling & characteristic movements of different dances, and that's a challenge for a lot of teams. P/C are obviously very talented, but I've never seen them do a convincing latin or pure ballroom program. They have their ballet/contemporary niche that works for them, but that's as far as it goes so far.

On the other hand, lots of people hand waved S/K's difficulties with the SD by saying it's "not their style" - hello, you can't take that approach! Half the point of the discipline is being able to translate different dance forms on to the ice! What happens if the SD in an Olympic year is not your style, do you just sit back, put your hands up and say "yeah, you got me this time"?

As for S/K, more than one person has voiced their concerns about Marina coaching them. She's more the person that puts the bow on top rather than build the foundation, and so far it's showing. Maybe all these months of training will have improved them significantly, but what I found concerning was that there were so many things that were fixable that just weren't fixed.

I just don't understand the whole approach. She's the main coach, but they have lift specialists, Scali is also there, Johnny Johns came back to work on the technical side as well, and yet S/K kept making the same basic errors. So either they have this big team with no one who understands the rules or knows how to coach within them, or S/K just aren't capable of hitting the requirements. I don't know which is more worrying.