State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[karne]

She's neglecting to mention that a clean Max will never beat even a semi-clean Yuzu, Fernandez, Kovtun, Mura, Ten, Voronov, or Kozuka (and I'm probably leaving a few people out) with the PCS he gets internationally. I like Max, but he gives up at least 10 points in PCS in the LP to those guys. And while I loved Adam's performance, he didn't actually land a quad; he underrotated one. Had he landed it well, he'd be in the lead. Nobody below the top 3 skated a clean program, and that's why they're the top 3. The programs that did have quads (or quad attempts) wouldn't be competitive on the world stage, either.

Max finished 7th, not clean, with no rep to speak of at his first Worlds, and even with a messy FS at last year's Worlds was still good enough for 8th. We've never seen what the World judges would give a totally clean Max, and it wouldn't surprise me if it pitched him into the top five at least - in medal contention, for sure.

I'm sick of all the downing on Max just because he's not ~artistic~.

 

[Interspectator]

Max finished 7th, not clean, with no rep to speak of at his first Worlds, and even with a messy FS at last year's Worlds was still good enough for 8th. We've never seen what the World judges would give a totally clean Max, and it wouldn't surprise me if it pitched him into the top five at least - in medal contention, for sure.

I'm sick of all the downing on Max just because he's not ~artistic~.

It's not that he's not artistic...it's his lower levels that are going to hurt his chances.

 

[Scovies]

Max finished 7th, not clean, with no rep to speak of at his first Worlds, and even with a messy FS at last year's Worlds was still good enough for 8th. We've never seen what the World judges would give a totally clean Max, and it wouldn't surprise me if it pitched him into the top five at least - in medal contention, for sure.

I'm sick of all the downing on Max just because he's not ~artistic~.

I'm not trying to down Max for his artistry; I was pointing out how his PCS have been scored relative to everyone else this season. See this post from last year's worlds -- I don't write him off artistically, but I also don't think his SP has been doing him any favors, and the judges cut him NO slack. I literally looked back at all the GP scores from this season before making that comment.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Congrats Adam Rippon! It's nice to see him conquer his nerves.

Also congrats to the new us men's champ Jason Brown!

 

[jkun]

Not to be super negative.. but taking into account the US men's performances and the performances of various counterparts internationally, I feel there is little chance for a US man to podium at worlds this year. I think Joshua has the most potential though. Seems to have the better balance of technical/artistic program. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll get PCS anywhere near what he got at nationals. None the less, US men's future seems bright. There's still 4 more years in the quad. By 2018, there should be a medal contender amongst them somewhere

 

[Violet Bliss]

None the less, US men's future seems bright. There's still 4 more years in the quad. By 2018, there should be a medal contender amongst them somewhere

The Chens, Nathan for Men and Karen for Ladies.

 

[Manitou]

The main reason I used to like Jason was so that I could have an unobstructed view at Kori when they were together in the box. While I still can't get my eyes off her, recently I started to enjoy Jason too. They both became the primary reason I am still watching mens skating.
But seriously, the best thing Timothy ever did was losing at these championships. Finally he is not blocking other skaters from the US team.

 

[silverfoxes]

Not to be super negative.. but taking into account the US men's performances and the performances of various counterparts internationally, I feel there is little chance for a US man to podium at worlds this year. I think Joshua has the most potential though. Seems to have the better balance of technical/artistic program. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll get PCS anywhere near what he got at nationals. None the less, US men's future seems bright. There's still 4 more years in the quad. By 2018, there should be a medal contender amongst them somewhere

Andrew Torgashev!

 

[Mrs. P]

The main reason I used to like Jason was so that I could have an unobstructed view at Kori when they were together in the box. While I still can't get my eyes off her, recently I started to enjoy Jason too. They both became the primary reason I am still watching mens skating.
But seriously, the best thing Timothy ever did was losing at these championships. Finally he is not blocking other skaters from the US team.

Timothy?

 

[karne]

But seriously, the best thing Timothy ever did was losing at these championships. Finally he is not blocking other skaters from the US team.

Timothy Dolensky has never won US Nationals and he's never blocked anybody from the US team.

 

[Interspectator]

I just read in this forum in the US Nationals thread someone commented "I think the US will be sending three men to China that will hold us in good stead. If worlds were a team competition for men, with each nation's top 10 men...I actually think the US would defeat Japan."

If it's the top 10...or even 8 then yes. 3 of Japans best skaters ever have just retired.
So we have left, Hanyu, Uno, Kozuka, Mura, Murakami, Sota, Keiji and Ryuju. That's 8...because the other guys are really too low down in points.
America has Brown, Rippon, Joshua, Max, Jeremy, Miner, Dornbush and Nathan

Hmm...actually, maybe equally matched other than Hanyu.
EDIT:
The original post was deleted, but it was an interesting thought. The depth of talented guys in the US is quite amazing, I think they are getting better.

 

[LRK]

Timothy?

That puzzled me too. I think Manitou must have meant Jeremy.

 

[Manitou]

That puzzled me too. I think Manitou must have meant Jeremy.

OMG! Why did I call him Timothy??? Jeremy! Jeremy!

OK, again:
The best thing Jeremy ever did was losing at these championships. Finally he is not blocking other skaters from the US team.

 

[andromache]

While a World medal for one of our men is pretty unrealistic this year, I'm hoping some good skates from them at 4CC will boost their reputations with international judges (esp for Josh and Adam after their unfortunate GP showings) and maybe one or more of them will medal there amongst the easier field of men.

 

[TontoK]

I'm actually more optimistic about a World medal than I was before Nationals.

It all comes down to executing the elements. If Josh and Adam hit their elements and perform well, they are competitive with the top men... maybe not Hanyu if he's on, but certainly the rest.

I give either of those two, with an edge to Josh, to reach the podium over Jason.

Edit: Typo

 

[noskates]

The one thing that Jason has in spades over Josh and Adam is consistency!!!!!! Why is everybody just assuming Jason will do poorly in world competition? Just because he doens't have the quad? How many quads are landed cleanly? I love this "armchair quarterbacking!" Bah!

 

[TontoK]

The one thing that Jason has in spades over Josh and Adam is consistency!!!!!! Why is everybody just assuming Jason will do poorly in world competition? Just because he doens't have the quad? How many quads are landed cleanly? I love this "armchair quarterbacking!" Bah!

I, for one, said nothing about quads in my post. I also didn't say I thought Jason would do poorly. I agree that his consistency is an asset.

So, why do I give the placement edge to Josh and Adam at World's? Here's why:

Jason skated his LP at Nationals about as well as one could expect. It was only good enough for a (virtual) third placement at his own Nationals, losing to two well-skated but flawed programs. NOTE: the paragraph discounts the zayak issue for Josh... his program would have beaten Jason's.

In the course of the event, Jason had one mistake... two-footing that 3A. He barely won over the other two guys who had downgrade jumps, missed spin levels, jump fall-outs/turn-outs, a zayak, jumping points left on the table...

I don't think Jason can skate much better than what he did... but I think Josh and Adam can skate a LOT better.

Edit: spelling

 

[Mrs. P]

Jason did lose approximately 4.5 with the 3A< in base value and GOE.

Jason will have one key advantage over the two - he has a higher world standing. He is 14th, Adam is 21st and Josh is 30th, which means he will get a later placement. He will be in at least in one of the two last groups if not the last group.

And Yes, if Adam and Josh hit their layouts (and the rest of the competition), it will be tough for Jason, but consistency shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[TontoK]

Mrs. P, you make excellent points regarding start order.

My question is this... Do Josh and Adam have a chance to improve WR at 4CC? How much does that play into the calculations?

Neither of them has performed spectacularly on the GP, so I wondering if 4CC provides an opportunity to remediate this...

 

[Mrs. P]

I just realized that yes, these are pre-4CC rankings. However, I don't think they will change much as far as order. Adam, who is some 520 points behind, would have to win medal 4CC and Jason would have to bomb or end up WD to pass him mathematically.

4CC migh however give some points so Adam and/or Josh won't have to go so early. But of course, it might be tough to pass people cause they will get points from 4CC/Euros as well.