Hmm. This has made me think. My two archetypal consistent skaters were Plushenko and Kwan (and probably also while I think about it Stojko and the pairs skater Artur Dmitriev). I think results have to come into it because to be fair when I think about consistent skaters I don't think about those who lurk their whole career around the 15th-8th place, skate well, but never shine. There are several of those, but they don't really stay in the mind. I think it is people who do dare to do the harder things, but you have a confidence that it will work for them. Even when Chan was winning everything (much as I love him) I couldn't think of him as consistent skater so success is only part of the picture. Staying upright is also only part of it, however. It is the confidence that someone will execute their programs at a high level week in week out.
The Great Consistency Debate!
- Thread starter chopinskate
- Start date
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- Jan 27, 2013
For a skater like Kaetlyn who skates faster, jumps higher, and covers 30-35% more ice surface than most of her competitors, the risks are inherent. Expect some errors versus others skating slower and smaller, many times with UR's. Her strategy is to skate to excellence not perfection and it obviously is working. Example, in the past 2 seasons she has been on the podium 13 of 15 times, finishing 4th in 2 others, and NEVER missing a podium or a scheduled event due to health reasons, the past season. Talk about consistency!
It is much harder to be perfect given the nature of her skating style.
It is much harder to be perfect given the nature of her skating style.
I'm a little puzzled by those using Kostner as an example to argue that results shouldn't be used to gauge consistency. That would imply that a lot of folks were holding her up as a model of consistency, but is that the case? I thought the general feeling was that Kostner, though she could be wonderful sometimes, was overall _inconsistent_ even in terms of results. She had longevity for sure but that's different from consistency.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
Skating is mostly about controlling your blade. Nice if you have huge jumps and great speed but if you couldn’t control them and perform consistently then it’s understandable your scores aren’t that good when you make mistakes (many many times).
Even though I do agree that cheated technique somehow help with the consistency (especially cheated takeoff). But some skaters don’t have pure takeoff are still inconsistent so...
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
Thanks for your feedback, Charlotte. IMHO, results come with being consistent, so in the case of Kaetlyn, they speak for themselves.
How could we measure artistic consistency, if we exclude the official score which is becoming a joke?
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
... What is artistic consistency? Are there skaters who are artistically inconsistent? And I'm not talking about 4 fall programs vs clean programs. That's honestly starting to sound pretty ridiculous.
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- Dec 9, 2017
I think theharleyquinn is saying that it would be far harder to jump AND perform consistently. So someone who delivers high quality jumping and highly artistic programs would have a harder job than someone who can deliver only on one of those criteria.
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- Sep 8, 2016
I guess I define consistency as the ability to just go out and skate and do the program at least mostly clean. To just be able to get on the ice and do your job. No excuses, no complaints, no buts, no blaming tiredness or boot issues or something.
I think that the Russian girls are consistent because they compete about 10 times a season, more than any other country. They’re even competing in the summertime!
I think that the Russian girls are consistent because they compete about 10 times a season, more than any other country. They’re even competing in the summertime!
for me, I dont care if a skater is consistent if they dont have good technique, cause, everyone can land a lutz with a wrong edge, but how many skaters can land an actual lutz? I also take in consideration the transitions between elements, if a skater doesnt do any transition she/he is obviously gonna be more consistent than a skater who do transitions in-and-out elements, for this example I always mention Yuzuru, he is not as consistent as other skaters, (he IS but lets say he falls more than other skaters, I love him, no hate) but the quality in which he deliver the jumps...for me thats what matter, I can land a prerotate-underotate 2Axel, but lets say a skater with an actual 2A, no UR and she/he is less consistence, but deliver what they say, I would take the last one
As in podiums, well, is not about how many times you win, but how many time you were on podium, this is not YOI in wich Viktor always won, thats fake (even if that would be interesting), skaters are humans, they make mistakes, they get injures, they have bad days.
Im really strict in this issue, wao.
As in podiums, well, is not about how many times you win, but how many time you were on podium, this is not YOI in wich Viktor always won, thats fake (even if that would be interesting), skaters are humans, they make mistakes, they get injures, they have bad days.
Im really strict in this issue, wao.
I think it also depends on the technical content of the skaters' programs. If a skater is consistently putting out 3 or 4 quads, it is very unlikely that they won't make some mistakes along the way. I think Hanyu is quite consistent considering the content he usually puts out and he usually peaks at the right time.
I am interested in the concept of artistic consistency. I think Michelle Kwan was a skater who had artistic consistency and was pretty solid as a competitor. In my opinion, that is more impressive than Evgenia's clean programs with higher tech content.
I am interested in the concept of artistic consistency. I think Michelle Kwan was a skater who had artistic consistency and was pretty solid as a competitor. In my opinion, that is more impressive than Evgenia's clean programs with higher tech content.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2018
I mean Michelle tallied more 6.0s than anyone in skating history under the 6.0 system and wasn’t off the podium for a decade straight.
In fact she was in over a 100 competitions since she turned senior at 12 and was only ever off the podium 7 times her entire career, only one of those happening after the age of 15 (at age 25 where she was 4th). Whether it’s results or performance, I don’t think there’s a more consistent skater or competitor in general in modern skating than Kwan. She’s really in her own league.
In fact she was in over a 100 competitions since she turned senior at 12 and was only ever off the podium 7 times her entire career, only one of those happening after the age of 15 (at age 25 where she was 4th). Whether it’s results or performance, I don’t think there’s a more consistent skater or competitor in general in modern skating than Kwan. She’s really in her own league.
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- Mar 3, 2018
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I have a hard time understanding anybody classifying Hanyu as inconsistent. He’s about as consistent as a male skater in the quad era can be.
I find some of the discussion on consistency seems overly generalized. I don't think you can compare the consistency of ladies vs men, when most of the ladies stick with the same triples in their layout, whereas the top level men has been pushing the technical advancement by trying the 4Lo, 4F, 4Lz and various quad combos.
Since there is a cap on the BV for ladies, staying consistent is crucial as a strategy to win in competitions. For men, their strategy of winning need to incorporate new jump elements in order to catch up with the rest of the field, and that usually means sacrificing consistency in order to remain competitive. To me, it's totally two different games between how the men and ladies aim to stay at the top.
Since there is a cap on the BV for ladies, staying consistent is crucial as a strategy to win in competitions. For men, their strategy of winning need to incorporate new jump elements in order to catch up with the rest of the field, and that usually means sacrificing consistency in order to remain competitive. To me, it's totally two different games between how the men and ladies aim to stay at the top.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Chopinskate has since explained what I was aiming at, but I definitely think there across programs there can be artistic inconsistency. One of the greatest failures of the PCS scoring system is the implicit minimum score that a skater is allowed to get based on reputation and past performances. Even the skaters most known for strong performance and artistry have had bad programs. Skating skills can also regress/improve.
I don't think the artistic component is completely subjective. Discussion of consistency at some given point is considering the whole package, especially if we're talking about podium placements.
I don't think the artistic component is completely subjective. Discussion of consistency at some given point is considering the whole package, especially if we're talking about podium placements.
I don't really see why withdrawals due to health reasons are relevant in consistency. Skaters don't choose to be sick or injured.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
You should check the protocols of these 2 season to see who actually fall the most. As far as I count, Hanyu actually had less falls than most guys during these 2 seasons.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
Right? I am not sure why people already erase GPF 2017 and WC 2018 when the guys messed terribly. Also the Gp series were not better
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Perhaps the definition of consistency could be "reliable to make fewest mistakes relative to the rest of the field, and hence finish on the podium"?
I could take this definition and also theharleyquinn’s proposed definition. The point of departure that generates discussion here anyways is not how we define consistency per se, but who will be the most consistent under different rubrics of how we define consistency. So perhaps the best way here is if we apply different definitions, which skater will most frequently appear in the list? Would a skater, who is considered consistent because of podium placement, be also considered consistent in showing both jump and artistic consistency? Is that skater also consistent in landing jumps throughout their career? I think if we can say, yes, yes, yes on those answer on skater A, and maybe no, yes, no or yes, no, yes, for skater B, I would be inclined to say that skater A is more consistent overall. You can add different variation of how you define consistency and then do the “yes/no” answer. Maybe then we can finally be satisfied with it.
