- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
To me, that theory would have more substance if anyone could supply a reason why the USFSA would want to do such a thing.
People don't usually cheat just to keep in practice. There has to be something to gain.
This turned out to be a very bad year for Alissa.
- Thread starter krenseby
- Start date
To me, that theory would have more substance if anyone could supply a reason why the USFSA would want to do such a thing.
People don't usually cheat just to keep in practice. There has to be something to gain.
Mathman they didn't cheat. They held Alissa up. And her are some of the reasons given.
1. They felt that Rachael/Caroline wouldn't get high PCS but Alissa would
2. They didn't like the idea of having two "developing" skaters on the team (artistically)
3. They felt that they needed a risk to get 3 spots and what if Czisny went clean
4. They felt that a mature girl winning would be good for marketing purposes. Because they thought the public was tired of teeny bobbers.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
holding up is cheating because they intentionally had to hold someone down/back. can't have it both ways. Either they played by the rules and no foul... or they cheated.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Country
-
If you think they held her up, it would greatly help your argument to provide your own protocols and show us how you think Nationals should have been scored.
Now HOW did I guess it was off-season? :think:
Just realized a very strange coincidence: Rachael and Alissa finished 7th and 9th at 4CC = 16; at Worlds, they finished 5th and 11th, respectively = 16. Also, Ashley finished 16th at Worlds last year.
If you want to go further than that, both Mirai and Caroline will be 16 during the Vancouver Olympics.
If you want to go further than that, both Mirai and Caroline will be 16 during the Vancouver Olympics.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
Im trying to find the announcement, do you know where it is?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Content/2008-09 RB Part 1 Bylaws.pdf
Selection criteria for the Olympic games are given on page 68, paragraph D.
For Worlds, page 67, paragraph A.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
thank you!! :agree:
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
- Country
-
Just realized a very strange coincidence: Rachael and Alissa finished 7th and 9th at 4CC = 16; at Worlds, they finished 5th and 11th, respectively = 16. Also, Ashley finished 16th at Worlds last year.
If you want to go further than that, both Mirai and Caroline will be 16 during the Vancouver Olympics.
Do we have a medieval numerologist in our midst?
ETA: (They liked to find 3's or multiples of 3 in everything to represent the trinity, gothic cathedrals were designed in certain proportions to represent significant numbers, etc. But basically, my comment was stupid, who's going to get or care about my archaic reference? Carry on with the real discussion!)
Last edited:
Okay, first let me just say I love love Sasha. But sometimes I can't help but wonder.. Sasha has jump/inconsistency issues, Alissa has jump/inconsistency issues. Sasha has amazing spirals, Alissa has amazing spirals. Sasha has great spins, Alissa has great spins. Both are very lyrical, expressive skaters, two of the best artists US figure skating has seen. But Sasha is Olympic silver medalist, World silver/bronze medalist, GPF champion, and Alissa has...a best Worlds finish of 11th? Last place in GPF? :scratch: I suppose this is where PCS comes in? Skating skills and whatnot?
Do we have a medieval numerologist in our midst?
ETA: (They liked to find 3's or multiples of 3 in everything to represent the trinity, gothic cathedrals were designed in certain proportions to represent significant numbers, etc. But basically, my comment was stupid, who's going to get or care about my archaic reference? Carry on with the real discussion!)
16 isn't a multiple of 3.. Haha but 6 is.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
There are a lot of similarities but the differences of scale (in mistakes) and also technical levels are important. Inconsistent Sasha was a remarkably consistent podium-earner and a consistent contender for gold, who regularly blew it with one or two mistakes. Inconsistent Alissa is a 13th or 11th at Worlds and sometime podium-earner, who frequently bombs with multiple falls. Sasha was among the best technically among her peers. Alissa is not.
PS: I love them both! But their accomplishments are far from identical.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
- Country
-
Thanks, you're right, of course, I was just trying to give an example of what medieval numerologists cared about to explain my stupid earlier comment. They liked 3's but also other numbers with Christian religious significance. Andalusia was finding all those 16's and that made me think of numerology, and I took all this medieval lit as an undergrad and know more about Catholic liturgy than my Catholic husband does, and the association just popped out.
IMO and I said this before is that they know that Alissa is a hit or miss skater. There is no way she would be scored low enough for the US to miss two spots so they wanted to chance her because if she hit the US could have secured 3 spots for the Olympics.
They were wrong.
Yeah, I was thinking something to this effect. I just found it interesting that two skaters with very similar qualities could turn out so differently. Sasha's inconsistency usually costs her just the gold medal, but the rest of her skating keeps her on the podium. On the other hand, Alissa's inconsistency blows any chance at all of a decent showing at the given competition, and her spins and spirals are powerless to save her.
Haha right, I see. I was just giving you a hard time.
But it is very interesting.Because Sasha was less inconsistent and better than Alissa. Yes Sasha never had a perfect 7 triple performance, but she was normally good for about 5 good triples and you could count on her to skate a good short program.
In contrast this season you have Alissa attempting only 5 triples, not to mention her issues with the short.
Thus, it's really unfair to Sasha, to compare her with Alissa... It's a night and day difference.
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
Given that a US Ladies' Olympic medal is a long shot at best, I'd like to see Alissa come back strong next year and deliver some programs worthy of her talent. Despite her obvious shortcomings, she's still one of my favorite ladies' skaters to watch.
Re. comparing Cohen and Czisny, this post says it best.
But the one time Alyssa led after the short, although she did an only OK long program, she still won
(controversies notwithstanding)By what standards was that an okay program? Yeah she didn't fall very often but she only attempted 4 triples. She minimized her opportunities to fall. I'm sorry but Debbie Thomas was landing more triples than Alissa did.
It was ridiculous, and wrong what happened. If Sasha, Michelle, Rachael, Caroline had landed only 3 clean triples in their program, their skates would be called disasterous. Why is somewhow okay and National title worthy winning for Alissa to land only 3 triples.
I don't even like Caroline or Rachael's skating at all. But both of them attempted 7 triples having 6 of them ratified. They had way, harder programs than Alissa had. When the USFSA makes decisions like they made you have to wonder if they even look at this as a sport.
Alissa's long program was disasterous by any reasonable standard.
Last edited:
Because that's the way Alyssa rolls. Basically any skate where she actually stays on her feet can be considered good by her standard. As for why she won, my only explanation/guess would be the lead she had after the SP. I knew it was going to be close, but I remember thinking that I didn't think she did quite enough to hold onto the lead. I think they gave her bigger scores than she deserved but actually, [in retrospect] I probably wouldn't change the ranking. Flatt was MUCH better at Worlds than she was at Nationals. Had she skated the Worlds routine at Nationals, she would have won instead. Easily.
I wouldn't be surprised if they (USFS) did a 180 and started to hold her DOWN even if she does well (by her standard, mind you). You know, I wish this stuff weren't happening. Wasn't NJS supposed to FIX all this stuff?!
