Thoughts on U.S. skating talent

[Ic3Rabbit]

The key part is that the parents had to mortgage their house twice. That's a huge sacrifice. There were other financial sacrifices too. There is a financial access issue for the elite level. The sacrifice is similar. I tend to go the scenic route in making my points. It's also not worth the financial sacrifice if you will never in a million years make it internationally, let alone to the Olympics.

If you would actually read this thread and the points I have made very clearly throughout from an elite level perspective, you'd know that I mentioned about skaters parents including my own who mortgaged their home a few times to get me/them what was needed to succeed. It's kind of ridiculous to think that some 5 year old in learn to skate has a parent doing that, because they probably don't. This is potential elite and elite with that mindset. If the parent does it any a much lower level then it's on them.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The key part is that the parents had to mortgage their house twice. That's a huge sacrifice. There were other financial sacrifices too. There is a financial access issue for the elite level. The sacrifice is similar. I tend to go the scenic route in making my points. It's also not worth the financial sacrifice if you will never in a million years make it internationally, let alone to the Olympics.

I think the real rub is that the financial investment to the level it takes to make it to and succeed even just at sectionals and regionals will never materialize into a college scholarship. I think the true path to creating long term careers and interest in the sport is by figuring out how we can get colleges to take it seriously and include it into their athletic programs.

At least here in the US.

 

[beachmouse]

For smaller athletic girls, cheerleading absorbs a lot of the talented ones in the US. While it's not necessarily a cheap sport, especially if you start talking independent non-school travel squads, it's still more budget-friendly than skating and there are multiple pathways from sideline to high performance, and well established competition options (many state high school associations recognize competitive cheer as a championship sport) and even a chance for a little bit of athletic scholarship money at the college level.

There are many cheerleading 'flyers' for have the size, athletic talent, and fearlessness to have possibly done some interesting things as pairs skaters if their childhoods sports choices had taken them another direction.

 

[narcissa]

Yes, but that is not what you originally said. It would have made sense had you said this in the first place.

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make with this distinction for this discussion, but I guess it's interesting to know that hour-long lessons are not standard.

The nitty gritty:

In NYC my coach was $55 for 25 minutes, and the ice time IIRC was 50 minutes/session with 10 minutes of ice resurfacing.
In SF my coach was $50 for 30 minutes, and the ice time was in 1 hour increments. There are other coaches that are $48 for 30 minutes, and others than are more, but it seems to be around that.
Sometimes I do 1 hour lessons and other times I do 2 1/2 hour lessons a week.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make with this distinction for this discussion, but I guess it's interesting to know that hour-long lessons are not standard.

The nitty gritty:

In NYC my coach was $55 for 25 minutes, and the ice time IIRC was 50 minutes/session with 10 minutes of ice resurfacing.
In SF my coach was $50 for 30 minutes, and the ice time was in 1 hour increments. There are other coaches that are $48 for 30 minutes, and others than are more, but it seems to be around that.
Sometimes I do 1 hour lessons and other times I do 2 1/2 hour lessons a week.

Really? This is pretty self-explanatory. You even admitted you should have stated it differently, so I was just agreeing to that point.

 

[narcissa]

Really? This is pretty self-explanatory. You even admitted you should have stated it differently, so I was just agreeing to that point.

Whether people take hour long lessons is not relevant to a discussion about finances. $100/hour is not more ridiculous of a price as $50/half hour. It's the same price.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Whether people take hour long lessons is not relevant to a discussion about finances. $100/hour is not more ridiculous of a price as $50/half hour. It's the same price.

Most people DO NOT take hour lessons unless they are very young or voluntarily take lessons back to back that go that long, as gkelly also pointed out.

No one cares about the price you pay really, it was more about lesson time amounts.

 

[narcissa]

Most people DO NOT take hour lessons unless they are very young or voluntarily take lessons back to back that go that long, as gkelly also pointed out.

No one cares about the price you pay really, it was more about lesson time amounts.

Okay, well maybe we are talking about different things then. I was making the point that skating in NYC is expensive.

 

[mia98]

You need helicopter Asian parents to make things work or the kid him/herself has to want to win really bad. One of Eteri's secrets is to make the kids want it bad. All this "have fun," "everyone is great" attitude isn't going to cut it in the big world. Americans think Raf is too mean or no one should be told to lose weight, as if these aren't what it takes to win medals. But in America it's no longer about winning medals. It's all about Adam Rippon kind of fame.

I understand what you mean here, but I think it's important to note this specific criticism was about Raf approving of a practically anorexic diet for one of his elite skaters that included only 3 slices of buttered bread per day.

 

[tothepointe]

I understand what you mean here, but I think it's important to note this specific criticism was about Raf approving of a practically anorexic diet for one of his elite skaters that included only 3 slices of buttered bread per day.

Yeah especially since in the US there is easy access to dietitians and other nutrition professionals. So if a weight cut did need to occur in order to maximize performance it could be done in a way that wouldn't put a skaters health at risk. That particular elite skater did end up with a fracture that he personally stated might have occured as a result of his compromized nutritional status.

I don't think people in the US are opposed to people being pushed to excel but it makes no sense not to use all the resources at our disposal.

 

[andromache]

I find the idea of getting colleges to care about figure skating to be pretty compelling. Has USFS made meaningful efforts to get involved at the college level? College gymnastics is pretty big, right? Gymnasts who never make it to the Olympics can still have a great college career, I think (but I don't know for sure lol, all I know is sometimes I see college gymnastics on tv).

Not every college has an ice rink, but there are plenty that do.

Parents will be way more likely to invest in their kid's sport career if it's possible to get a college scholarship out of it.

 

[chuckm]

A reasonable diet to maintain an optimum weight should consist of foods that provide good nutrition. Buttered bread provides mostly fat and starch. That Raf allowed only three slices of fat and starch seems like good advice to me.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You all obviously don’t know about the USFS sanctioned US Collegiate Championships. http://www.usfsa.org/programs?id=83978&menu=collegiate

 

[oatmella]

A reasonable diet to maintain an optimum weight should consist of foods that provide good nutrition. Buttered bread provides mostly fat and starch. That Raf allowed only three slices of fat and starch seems like good advice to me.

But that was Adam’s entire daily diet at one point.

It wasn’t that Raf was only permitting three slices of bread/butter per day (in addition to other foods for a balanced diet) ... that was all Adam was eating in one day.

 

[Spinning]

This was back when they used to pick students based on body type before starting their training.

The RBA still use the old rules to these days unfortunately. My niece got in when she was 5 but had been asked to wait for her 11-years-old intake because she was too small and her parents heights are not promising.

 

[ice coverage]

Many of us on GS are well aware of U.S. Collegiates -- which is the subject of GS threads and/or posts every year when the comp rolls around.

It is great that most skaters at Collegiates enter for love of the sport.

But the opportunities to earn scholarship money from the comp are quite limited. Top three senior ladies, plus senior men's winner.

And when a legitimate full-time collegian such as Richard Dornbush, Max Aaron, Kevin Shum, Mirai Nagasu, or Angela Wang (all of whom I love ) is an entry … it reduces the chances for someone with markedly less experience to earn scholarship money.

(The stand-alone event for Collegiates is only for singles.
As part of other competitions, USFS holds collegiate events for dance and pairs that are supposed to be equivalent to the stand-alone comp for singles. I do not know whether dancers and pairs have any opportunity at all to earn scholarship money from their "equivalent " events.)

 

[oatmella]

Nathan mentioned he would be eligible to participate in the U.S. Collegiates (but I think he said this jokingly)

I saw a tweet from someone planning on competing there saying they are going to cry if Nathan is there !

 

[chuckm]

But that was Adam’s entire daily diet at one point.

It wasn’t that Raf was only permitting three slices of bread/butter per day (in addition to other foods for a balanced diet) ... that was all Adam was eating in one day.

Then any results of poor nutrition are on Adam, not Raf.

 

[elbkup]

Then any results of poor nutrition are on Adam, not Raf.

I tend to agree; Maria Sotskova outlined her diet in an interview not too long ago... lots of green salads and low fat soups with beans, legumes, lean protein, fresh fruits, complex carbs for energy. Takes a bit of planning and a bit of work if one preps meals on their own but it can be pulled off on a minimum budget. A diet nutritionally rich in minerals can only benefit... the apples Adam mentioned were a good choice.. mineral rich..
(Forgive Me: i'm cooking today. )

 

[el henry]

Then any results of poor nutrition are on Adam, not Raf.

Adam started the diet because Raf told him he needed to lose weight. This was recounted in the same article where Raf told the NYTimes he needed to learn that you don’t call a figure skater you are training “fat” (that would be coaching 101, one would think), but at the same time Raf said you are thinking “how do you get an elephant to fly”:

Kind of like the same genius posters who think it’s OK to call a girl who weighs less than 99% of her peers of the same height “fat” because it’s “figure skating after all”. Uh, no it’s not and no it’s not. Methinks there is enough blame to go around.