Thoughts on U.S. skating talent

[karne]

Cindy was using that skater as an example of a skater who is not frail and willowy and not fat, but has a more average, athletic body type

Then why did she put Rachel's name as an eg after "fat"?

 

[oatmella]

Cindy - I think your intended meaning would have been more clear if you had put the (e.g. Rachael) after the word ‘stocky’ instead of ‘fat’

 

[Cindy1983]

I wasn't meaning she was fat, I meant she was an example of a skater that was stocky. I just felt the need to explain it was different from fat because inevitatably you will get someone whogets offended, does not know the meaning of the word stocky and has never heard of a dictionary.

 

[karne]

I wasn't meaning she was fat, I meant she was an example of a skater that was stocky. I just felt the need to explain it was different from fat because inevitatably you will get someone whogets offended, does not know the meaning of the word stocky and has never heard of a dictionary.

So instead you chose to write it in a way which appeared as though you meant she was fat.

The Oxford comma is also a beautiful and useful thing.

 

[Tolstoj]

I think consistency is a myth. People say internal competitions help this. What they actually do, I think, is that it gives the top developing talent 'ready for prime time'. They get their mistakes out BEFORE they go before international judges. Unfortunately, I think the judges now expect this from skaters. This is sad. For one thing, not all skaters can do that and judges may ascribe a reputation to a skater based on early performances. Early competitions should, above all, give young talent experience in front of judges which is different than a practice environment. Some mistakes can be due to inexperience and skaters wouldn't be labeled for life. For another, it doesn't allow for growth stories. It's nice to see athletes grow to become competitors (e.g. Ashley Wagner). Most of the Russian girls are cookie cutter and formulaic, but are ready for prime time.

Hi

https://24smi.org/public/media/2017/9/26/fdc1ccea0ea2e7204d5e02727ea72d5f.jpg

You're overthinking on Zagitova's bad outings: she has never been the most consistent skater from Eteri's group (although in fairness we should say that she attempts very difficult elements), they have stronger skaters that perform always clean performances since the very first competition.

Medvedeva was spot on all the time for 2-3 years in a row, like there was no competition, even for Kaetlyn Osmond, Satoko Miyahara, Gracie Gold... last year it was different for her cause she was dealing with many injuries and it's tough to comeback, she did her best at the Olympics though.

Consistency is not a myth.

I also disagree with your generalization on the Russian girls, they all have their artistry, their style, it's a completely different story compared to 20-30 years ago when they used to have Irina Slutskaya and her questionable artistry.

About US talents, ithey are making progresses in Men's figure skating, i think that's because the development of a male skater fits more their style of raising an athlete (basically wait until 18 to move into seniors), while they are struggling with the ladies for the exact same reason: they should start to prepare these young girls for junior competitions, that's the real problem.

Learning 3-3s at the age of 14-15-16 is honestly too late nowadays if you want to compete for a top spot at worlds, gpf,... cause when you jump into seniors, the japanese and the russians will still be stronger and more consistent than you.

It seems that they want to change things up with Alysa liu, we'll see how that goes.

 

[chopinskate]

I wasn't meaning she was fat, I meant she was an example of a skater that was stocky. I just felt the need to explain it was different from fat because inevitatably you will get someone whogets offended, does not know the meaning of the word stocky and has never heard of a dictionary.

Cindy, your sentence construction was off.

You could have written:

You very rarely see skaters who are short and stocky like Rachel Flatt (and this different from being fat), or tall like Carolina Kostner.

Your intention was to make sure no one thought that you were equating "short and stocky" with "fat", but your sentence construction made it impossible for us to gauge it correctly.

 

[concorde]

Learning 3-3s at the age of 14-15-16 is honestly too late nowadays if you want to compete for a top spot at worlds, gpf,... cause when you jump into seniors, the japanese and the russians will still be stronger and more consistent than you.

I understand your point but I am not sure how true this is.

12-year old Zag only had 2 triples in her programs and they were rough to put it nicely. Three years later, she is the Olympic champion.
Med was also considered a mediocre Novice skater. But she won back-to back Worlds and a Silver at the Olympics.
There was at least one amazing Junior awhile back doing 3A in the JGPs but she duded out before she became a Senior.


I think only time will tell with current crop of Novices/Juniors. So much happens physically in those early teen years.

 

[NanaPat]

Cindy, your sentence construction was off.

You could have written:

You very rarely see skaters who are short and stocky like Rachel Flatt (and this different from being fat), or tall like Carolina Kostner.

Your intention was to make sure no one thought that you were equating "short and stocky" with "fat", but your sentence construction made it impossible for us to gauge it correctly.

Or even better:

You very rarely see skaters who are short and stocky like Rachel Flatt, or tall like Carolina Kostner. Note that short and stocky is different from being fat.

It's much better to not use the word fat and a person's name in the same sentence.

 

[Cindy1983]

Yes, I didn't see that. I apologize. My other comment is from being a glutton for punishment and doing too much posting on political comment boards where that is an issue apparently.

 

[jenaj]

I think Cindy meant that the named skater was an example of "athletically built" skaters, not that she was fat. The wording was unfortunate. The fat refereed to "athletically built" is NOT fat, not the skater.

At least that's what I thought she meant to say.

No, she said she was fat, as distinct from short and stocky.

ETA: OK, maybe it was unclear wording--not sure.

 

[Cindy1983]

No, she said she was fat, as distinct from short and stocky.

ETA: OK, maybe it was unclear wording--not sure.

I meant she was short and stocky, not fat. I'm not an athlete and my take on her body type comes from the perspective of a nonathlete. I view body type as independent of athletic talent. Runners are athletic, but are tall and wiry. What I was wondering actually was if figure skating favoured a specific body type (i.e. a small build but with a lean willowy look).

 

[champs]

Lol I guess I'm one of a few who actually understood Cindy's intention first time reading that sentence as she was clearly juxtaposing [short & stocky body type] and [tall body type] and was giving Kostner as an example of the second case (so it's intuitively most natural to assume Flatt was given an example of the first case and not of the [fat body type] which isn't in this juxtaposition.)

 

[ice coverage]

Yes, I didn't see that. I apologize. My other comment is from being a glutton for punishment and doing too much posting on political comment boards where that is an issue apparently.

Appreciate the apology.

 

[Cindy1983]

Appreciate the apology.

Aww, no problem.

 

[Skater Boy]

Okay, I am not sure what all the talk is about body types but as for talent. I think the men are looking strong. They have the leader and current star in Nathan and Vincent and Aaron are up and coming. And the skating skills and artistry of Jason are solid top ten especially in a weakened field after retirements.

I can't say much about the pairs. I though by now actually the Knerims would have a world medal and even with the Russians, Canadians and Chinese having huge issues with their pair teams and not sending their best to worlds this year the Knerims were not able to take advantage and for some reason are no longer a sure thing to even make the freeskate this year. We will see if the new blood of Savchenko will make a difference. Ironically even if Savchenko isn't a genius at coaching the change is all that may be required!

The ladies is one where I think Bradie is the solid skater. Whether she develops artisitcally and better skating skills may be debatable but her consistency already has moved her into the final flight of skaters. She beat two Russians at worlds this year. Karen, Mirai also are contenders if they deal with their issues. And in the future you have Courtney, Starr, and there are few other up and comers plus possible rebounds from Polina and Mariah. All is not lost.


Dance is a looking good. So many good up and coming teams but you still have Chock and Bates, Hubell and donahoe, H and B and that doesnt even consider The Shibs are tentatively scheduled to come back. Are any of these gold medal contenders - probably not with P and C solidly ahead of everyone. P C would have ot make a couple of errors. I rather doubt the judges will penalize them for their lack of versatility in the freedance. Though the fans may eventually bore of them - there will always be some followers of course.

team wise the USA is looking good with the Canadians losing a top male skater, their top ice dance team and top pairs team. Bradie is solid. Too bad pairs seems to be a real issue. Russia is unstable in men and dance. And in pairs while the have the current WSM they hardly look invincible - another Candyman like program and they could be doomed. Though it seems odd not to have a "special" star Russian team. S and K better come back.

 

[flipsydoodle]

Besides the questionable wording - I don’t think it’s all that rare to see skaters who have a shorter and more athletic/compact body type?

E.g Surya Bonaly

 

[karne]

Okay, I am not sure what all the talk is about body types but as for talent. I think the men are looking strong. They have the leader and current star in Nathan and Vincent and Aaron are up and coming. And the skating skills and artistry of Jason are solid top ten especially in a weakened field after retirements.
.

?!?!?! Who?

Also, at your assessment of Jason. Jason is not "solid top ten" in SS and artistry, he's the undisputed best in the US at those things and easily top 5 in the world - dare I say, top 3.

 

[oatmella]

Skater Boy - did you mean Alexei instead of Aaron?

As for body type (ladies) - I remember hearing on some broadcasts that Yuna Kim supposedly has the perfect physique for figure skating - and she has a slim frame/willowy look with long limbs. Bradie also has this body type - though she is taller.

But is this more for aesthetic reasons? As there seem to be many great skaters who do not have this body type.

 

[ribbit]

Yes, I didn't see that. I apologize. My other comment is from being a glutton for punishment and doing too much posting on political comment boards where that is an issue apparently.

I appreciate the apology too. I'm glad to know that the issue was one of grammar and not of intention. Other posters (especially corinthia, chopinskate, and NanaPat have given examples of sentence constructions that would have made your intended meaning clear, so I won't pile on.

 

[concorde]

Can the mods please move these lasts posts on sentence structure to their own thread or just shut down this thread. Each time a poster has tried to steer it back to "talent," it gets derailed again to sentence structure.