Training Advice for Deeper Knees and Ankles?

[TQB]

Hello!
Quick recap: I skated as a kid (a lot on my own) until teens, then only occasionally/recreationally until last year when I started taking lessons again. I upgraded my skates last month and am feeling pretty good - good enough to be mindful of all my bad habits. Chief among them: bad knees and lazy arms. I've made good progress with arms and posture but I still tend to do everything without sufficient knee bend. Any specific drills/exercises (on or off ice) that will get me deeper and encourage me to stop skating around like an undercooked noodle?

TIA!

 

[shumaislife]

Please take this with a grain of salt as I am a total beginner (1st week on ice), but am fairly fit. If I had to pick one off-ice exercise that has helped me feel more comfortable skating is: one-legged squats. It forces me to learn balance while actively bending my knees and straightening, whereas regular stationary balance comes easy for me. Furthermore, it uses the exact muscles that you use for your knee bends on ice. It's also easy to keep it interesting and challenging by changing the free leg position (bent, straight, behind you, in front, etc). Regular squats and close-legged squats are also awesome to get used to bending those knees, or if you need to work up to the one-legged variety. Core exercises will also help with everything too, including maintaining good posture and balance.

I know my knee bends suck because I'm too scared to fall, or lose my balance, or accidentally catch the toepick. Kinda like how many beginners are scared to skate faster for the same reason. Other people seem to have weak knee bends because their skates are too stiff or not yet broken in. I know you've had these skates for a month, but I've been tying mine without the top hooks to help me learn how to knee-bend and break in my boots. Maybe something to try!

 

[1111bm]

I know my knee bends suck because I'm too scared to fall, or lose my balance, or accidentally catch the toepick.

Bending you knees won't increase the risk of any of these things happening, it will actually help prevent it. Not bending your knees is one of the main culprits for losing your balance/falling.

 

[shumaislife]

Bending you knees won't increase the risk of any of these things happening, it will actually help prevent it. Not bending your knees is one of the main culprits for losing your balance/falling.

Yes 100%! My brain understands that knee bending is good, but my body doesn't for unexplained reasons. And of course, majority of times I've fallen is because I wasn't bending my knees!! This why I've been working on strength and balance. As I get stronger and more stable, I get less scared to really bend those knees. Still working on fighting that fear though!

 

[gliese]

Anything that strengthens your quads and glutes. Also, always focus on bending your knees since you know it's one of your bad habits. Skating progress isn't magic; you have to work for it.

 

[gliese]

Just remembered two drills I did when I was younger to work on this. One was just backward crossovers except you can never straighten your knees of your supporting leg and you bend as much as possible without looking stupidly bent (though I'm sure that could help too). We also did three turns and worked on the rhythm of the knee bend for turns.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Just remembered two drills I did when I was younger to work on this. One was just backward crossovers except you can never straighten your knees of your supporting leg and you bend as much as possible without looking stupidly bent (though I'm sure that could help too). We also did three turns and worked on the rhythm of the knee bend for turns.

Yes. I would be teaching proper forward and backwards stroking with the deepest kneebends you can manage on every push and glide, along with forward and backwards crossovers with knees bent as much as you can. And then more. And when you think you're looking absolutely ridiculous, bend a bit more. They're almost certainly still not bent enough, but you'll get there. These things have to be practiced every single time you get on that ice to train, though. Every time. And for more than just one circuit! The deep knee bend honestly feels utterly ridiculous but I can assure you it doesn't look anything like that. With the kids, I used to say "Harness your inner shark!" and they'd immediately all bend their knees and skate around with lovely deep kneebends, with a hand on top of their head to simulate the dorsal fin and singing the menacing Jaws theme. It was hilarious and great fun and really got the knees working. (And, if I'm honest, I still do this with adults because it makes them laugh and then they relax and bend a little more.)

 

[gliese]

Yes. I would be teaching proper forward and backwards stroking with the deepest kneebends you can manage on every push and glide, along with forward and backwards crossovers with knees bent as much as you can. And then more. And when you think you're looking absolutely ridiculous, bend a bit more. They're almost certainly still not bent enough, but you'll get there. These things have to be practiced every single time you get on that ice to train, though. Every time. And for more than just one circuit! The deep knee bend honestly feels utterly ridiculous but I can assure you it doesn't look anything like that. With the kids, I used to say "Harness your inner shark!" and they'd immediately all bend their knees and skate around with lovely deep kneebends, with a hand on top of their head to simulate the dorsal fin and singing the menacing Jaws theme. It was hilarious and great fun and really got the knees working. (And, if I'm honest, I still do this with adults because it makes them laugh and then they relax and bend a little more.)

Yes, you have to practice it multiple times. Those quads better be burning. Once they are you can stop

 

[Kat12]

With the kids, I used to say "Harness your inner shark!" and they'd immediately all bend their knees and skate around with lovely deep kneebends, with a hand on top of their head to simulate the dorsal fin and singing the menacing Jaws theme. It was hilarious and great fun and really got the knees working. (And, if I'm honest, I still do this with adults because it makes them laugh and then they relax and bend a little more.)

I kinda want to do this now, lol. Might get me the side-eye at public sessions, though. Especially since I'd then have the urge to do it while chasing people around.

 

[Elija]

I kinda want to do this now, lol. Might get me the side-eye at public sessions, though. Especially since I'd then have the urge to do it while chasing people around.

Or bumper cars haha. I went to an adult camp recently and we had to zoom around in a peewee position like little cars. Was actually super fun and hilarious watching a bunch of adults do it.

 

[TQB]

And when you think you're looking absolutely ridiculous, bend a bit more.

YES! I love the Inner Shark thing! I'm going to do that with my son too - he's also a bit stiff in the knees and skating in his first show next month. Right now I feel ridiculous because i feel quite upright and unsteady. It absolutely true that stiff knees = more falls, which is another reason I'm determined to work on this. It's horrifying how much it hurts to fall now. I remember the spills I used to take as a kid - yeah, it hurt, but not for long. Now a simple crash on the knees hurts for a month! Getting old is the WORST.

Anyway, thank you all so much for the suggestions. My mindset for thursday practice is going to be:
- Bend until it must look silly, then bend more
- Release my inner shark
- Back crossovers and stroking without straightening
- Make sure my quads BURN - to be honest, they often don't, and that's been the red flag for me. I'm in decent shape but not *that* good!

I've been trying to work on a pistol squat off-ice because it turns out I still have an actually decent sit spin, other than i need to get way lower. My coach thinks it's because i'm afraid to fall on my bum but I know the truth is that I'm just not strong enough to rise back up.

 

[gliese]

My coach thinks it's because i'm afraid to fall on my bum but I know the truth is that I'm just not strong enough to rise back up.

I have a little advice for that. Don't let your leg relax because if you do, it's extremely difficult to recruit the muscle again.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

YES! I love the Inner Shark thing! I'm going to do that with my son too - he's also a bit stiff in the knees and skating in his first show next month. Right now I feel ridiculous because i feel quite upright and unsteady. It absolutely true that stiff knees = more falls, which is another reason I'm determined to work on this. It's horrifying how much it hurts to fall now. I remember the spills I used to take as a kid - yeah, it hurt, but not for long. Now a simple crash on the knees hurts for a month! Getting old is the WORST.

Anyway, thank you all so much for the suggestions. My mindset for thursday practice is going to be:
- Bend until it must look silly, then bend more
- Release my inner shark
- Back crossovers and stroking without straightening
- Make sure my quads BURN - to be honest, they often don't, and that's been the red flag for me. I'm in decent shape but not *that* good!

I've been trying to work on a pistol squat off-ice because it turns out I still have an actually decent sit spin, other than i need to get way lower. My coach thinks it's because i'm afraid to fall on my bum but I know the truth is that I'm just not strong enough to rise back up.

Getting old is brutal!

Back crossovers should be done without rising up but stroking does require a rise. There's a specific sequence to it:-

1. Bend
2. Push and glide on bent knee with free leg straightening behind
3. Rise up on skating knee with free leg still straight behind
4. Bring free foot to the side of the skating foot and
5. Bend both legs with the free foot still off the ice
6. Change the skating edge from outside to inside, knees still bent, ready for the
7. Push onto the new skating foot/leg with that lovely deep kneebend.
And repeat ad infinitum.

I would teach this holding on to the barrier, face on, to start with, just to get the sequence and rhythm into the head. It usually requires a fair bit of repetition to fix it. I remember holding onto the back of a chair, the kitchen counter, a photocopier, and many other things while I was working to get it into my head!

 

[gliese]

When I did synchro we did 4-count stroking:
1: push onto leg with free leg extended
2: hold position
3: straighten weight bearing leg while bringing free leg inner ankle to ankle (still straight)
4: bend both knees free leg off the ice
repeat

helpful if you have music playing in the rink.