Who can defeat the Russian Women in 2021-22?

[el henry]

whole post.

The stereotyping and generalizations in this post are too sweeping for me to answer, so I won't.

I will say that I do not base my opinions on my own life experience (with which I could match anyone, and I mean anyone, with responsibility, maturity, etc. expected of a child. So what? The fact that it was expected of me or that I lived it doesn't mean it was ideal. Or is a good idea now).

The point isn't what I would have wanted or I could have done, but what is best in general. But I don't think we will convince each other, so I will leave off now.

 

[Amei]

For what its worth to the discussion, at Nationals Shcherbakova was ill or recovering from illness, not injured. I've never heard an athlete mention that returning to their job (aka their sport) when they were still sick or recovering from being sick has given them life altering problems.

Shcherbakova was injured this off-season and did take time off to recover

 

[[email protected]]

Are you saying Eugenie should have backloaded her program to win gold? Eteri wouldn't have let her. That is the thing with having Eteri as a coach - she doesn't care who wins. If I were Evgenia, I would have made a big stink and too demanded a backloaded choreography.

Evgenia tried a backloaded FS in the fall of 2017 and it didn't work (leftovers program). I was there in Sochi sitting in the front row. I wonder where you got your info about Eteri's not letting Medvedeva do backloading.

 

[alexocfp]

Are you saying Eugenie should have backloaded her program to win gold? Eteri wouldn't have let her. That is the thing with having Eteri as a coach - she doesn't care who wins. If I were Evgenia, I would have made a big stink and too demanded a backloaded choreography.

Absolutely in agreement with you.

You have the advantage of training with your main rival. You see her plans and should question yours.

And I’ll go one further. If your coach refuses, then you change the program on your own without telling anyone.

As it turned out, her relationship with Eteri deteriorated later anyway. So her going into business for herself more likely than not meant a gold.

 

[alexocfp]

For what its worth to the discussion, at Nationals Shcherbakova was ill or recovering from illness, not injured. I've never heard an athlete mention that returning to their job (aka their sport) when they were still sick or recovering from being sick has given them life altering problems.

Shcherbakova was injured this off-season and did take time off to recover

Good clarification. I have been guilty of using the terms interchangeably.

 

[MUALover]

I think Alina is more athletic than Evgenia for what it's worth - her jumps have better height and such. Her Don Quixote program was perfect her.

I'm a bit uncertain about Anna Scherbakova's FS this season. Her music selection is odd. I love her because she is so artistic though.

I think the Russian team is going to be Kamila & Alexandra. Anna or Elizaveta for the 3rd spot. Honestly, I really like Alexandra's programs this season, it's like Danii is pulling for her to win gold. Frida and Cruella really suit her.

 

[Lzbee]

Once you take the ice, reasons don’t matter.

Skating hurt and abuse are 2 different things. Not wanting to quit is not abuse.

It’s not the same thing. Anna herself made that decision against her coaches and parents wishes. Let’s tell the story right. Anna wanted to win a medal that badly. I applaud that attitude! Having a winner mentality is not abuse, it’s high level sport.

If they wanted this to be non competitive, they wouldn’t keep score or award medals or have placements. Some people value these scores and placements more than others. And that’s good, reward those that do.

And I as a fan am not ashamed to admit that I value them too.

Fierce competition is not abuse. You either leave everything on the ice, or encounter others that will gladly do it and take your position.

Being 15 and fearless is not abuse. I was fearless at that age too.

People focus on ages too much. An elite 15 year old athlete is not a typical 15 year old. There are different standards for top level athletes. Goes for any sport. They aren’t kids in the kids sense of the word. They are different than normal teens and adults for that matter.

They are more adult than kid at that point. Anna mentally is around 50. Haha

Alright. I know I said I wouldn't reply but I need to clarify what I meant.

I said nothing about the ages of skaters. I said that the mentality of "win at all costs" fosters a culture of abuse.

Shaming skaters as being lazy for not wanting to skate whilst injured is what I have issue with. There are so many stories of kids stuck doing a sport through injury and manipulation and abuse because some adults want to live vicariously through the kid's hard work and achievements. And never mind kids, the peer pressure of being called lazy because you didn't train on injury affects all athletes and it's gross.

Remember when Tursynbayeva couldn't even bend down because her back was so injured? Remember when Anna Pogorilaya skated in a corset and was still railed on for being melodramatic, lazy and an embarrassment? Remember when Zijun Li had to quit because her diet was so restricted she'd faint regularly and she wasn't allowed to drink water? Remember when Satoko was getting stress fractures because her bones had deteriorated from malnutrition?

If it were up to you, you'd say well if they wanted to win then they should've trained harder. But no, they shouldn't have and I'm glad they're out of those situations now.

And no, Evgenia is not lazy and unmotivated for not training 10 hours a day at Eteri's camp on an injured back.

 

[alexocfp]

Alright. I know I said I wouldn't reply but I need to clarify what I meant.

I said nothing about the ages of skaters. I said that the mentality of "win at all costs" fosters a culture of abuse.

Shaming skaters as being lazy for not wanting to skate whilst injured is what I have issue with. There are so many stories of kids stuck doing a sport through injury and manipulation and abuse because some adults want to live vicariously through the kid's hard work and achievements. And never mind kids, the peer pressure of being called lazy because you didn't train on injury affects all athletes and it's gross.

Remember when Tursynbayeva couldn't even bend down because her back was so injured? Remember when Anna Pogorilaya skated in a corset and was still railed on for being melodramatic, lazy and an embarrassment? Remember when Zijun Li had to quit because her diet was so restricted she'd faint regularly and she wasn't allowed to drink water? Remember when Satoko was getting stress fractures because her bones had deteriorated from malnutrition?

If it were up to you, you'd say well if they wanted to win then they should've trained harder. But no, they shouldn't have and I'm glad they're out of those situations now.

And no, Evgenia is not lazy and unmotivated for not training 10 hours a day at Eteri's camp on an injured back.

Well, I am glad you responded because I do want to read your thoughts. I liked your post because it has the passion I admire. We agree more than you think too.

First thing we will agree on without any reservations is parents living vicariously through their kids. That is awful, no other way to say it. Let the kids have their own lives.

Medvedeva is not lazy nor unmotivated in any way. But there is different motivations training for competition and training for exhibitions. There just isn’t the same pressure. And it’s her life, if she doesn’t want to comeback competitively, good for her. Make money, keep your name out there, and not put your body through the same stress. I would work less for more money too. Haha

And yes, there are skaters that are lazy. Every sport has them. Why is figure skating different? Obviously it’s a case by case basis. Some athletes are genuinely lazy and some get labeled that unfairly.

Some are also manipulators that pretend their injuries are worse than they are.

Anna, for me, will always get the benefit of the doubt because her track record is exemplary. It‘s not a secret that Anna is everything I love in an athlete. Quiet, hard working, no drama, competitive, a perfectionist that leaves everything on the ice and is never satisfied with being second.

Playing through pain is a staple of being a champion athlete. It’s just the way it is. Granted, there is a fine line between playing hurt and being stupid.

Being a top level athlete without properly hydration and nutrition is beyond stupid because you cant get maximum performance like that. Don‘t think I ever advocated for an athlete to not eat. It’s counter productive to my gold medal goals.

Will I advocate for what Anna did at Nationals last year? 100% yes.

 

[Skater Boy]

Well, I am glad you responded because I do want to read your thoughts. I liked your post because it has the passion I admire. We agree more than you think too.

First thing we will agree on without any reservations is parents living vicariously through their kids. That is awful, no other way to say it. Let the kids have their own lives.

Medvedeva is not lazy nor unmotivated in any way. But there is different motivations training for competition and training for exhibitions. There just isn’t the same pressure. And it’s her life, if she doesn’t want to comeback competitively, good for her. Make money, keep your name out there, and not put your body through the same stress. I would work less for more money too. Haha

And yes, there are skaters that are lazy. Every sport has them. Why is figure skating different? Obviously it’s a case by case basis. Some athletes are genuinely lazy and some get labeled that unfairly.

Some are also manipulators that pretend their injuries are worse than they are.

Anna, for me, will always get the benefit of the doubt because her track record is exemplary. It‘s not a secret that Anna is everything I love in an athlete. Quiet, hard working, no drama, competitive, a perfectionist that leaves everything on the ice and is never satisfied with being second.

Playing through pain is a staple of being a champion athlete. It’s just the way it is. Granted, there is a fine line between playing hurt and being stupid.

Being a top level athlete without properly hydration and nutrition is beyond stupid because you cant get maximum performance like that. Don‘t think I ever advocated for an athlete to not eat. It’s counter productive to my gold medal goals.

Will I advocate for what Anna did at Nationals last year? 100% yes.

What did Anna do at Nationals Last year - besides win? Was there something special?

 

[alexocfp]

What did Anna do at Nationals Last year - besides win? Was there something special?

Not quitting after the SP against the advice of everyone, allegedly beating the fever tests and managing to skate while technically she should have been sent home, gutting out the SP, gutting out the free skate, winning after she was preceded by 2 awe inspiring skates.

Since this is Anna, we can consider this super human effort nothing special.

But it’s actually very special.

 

[saturdaysun]

There's no Olympic medal for "longevity." Why do some fans think athletes' objectives are the same as theirs -- to stick around for as long as possible? People who want to win want simply that -- to win. I'm sure it'd be nice -- for some of them -- to keep doing it for years and years, but if you polled elite athletes on whether they'd give up their medals to keep playing their sport for a few years longer, the answer would be obvious. Of course there are athletes who enjoy the sport, don't have much pressure to win and have disposable income from some other source and can just keep playing it safe and stay around forever, but that's just not a realistic scenario for the majority of people competing at the elite level, especially the ones who are World/Olympic gold medal contenders. Skating in particular is very much a sprint that comes in four-year cycles, not a marathon.

 

[Thrashergurl]

Not quitting after the SP against the advice of everyone, allegedly beating the fever tests and managing to skate while technically she should have been sent home, gutting out the SP, gutting out the free skate, winning after she was preceded by 2 awe inspiring skates.

Since this is Anna, we can consider this super human effort nothing special.

But it’s actually very special.

There’s nothing special about that behavior and as I recall, many around the world were very critical of Anna for acting so irresponsibly and selfish during a pandemic. People on this very message forum were critical and Anna’s die hard fans were upset with the criticism and their excuse was that Anna was still a child. So based on your previous post boasting of how responsible Anna is and that she has experienced so much more in life than people from other countries….how would the behavior you’re praising as special not in actuality be irresponsible behavior? Wouldn’t someone so mature and responsible know better.

 

[alexocfp]

There’s nothing special about that behavior and as I recall, many around the world were very critical of Anna for acting so irresponsibly and selfish during a pandemic. People on this very message forum were critical and Anna’s die hard fans were upset with the criticism and their excuse was that Anna was still a child. So based on your previous post boasting of how responsible Anna is and that she has experienced so much more in life than people from other countries….how would the behavior you’re praising as special not in actuality be irresponsible behavior? Wouldn’t someone so mature and responsible know better.

I definitely didn’t criticize her. The people that did and wanted her to quit will never be national and world champions. Anna’s way is the champions way, the champions way will never be the fans’ way. I don’t want to watch the fans skating.

One has medals and accolades and the other side has criticisms. Hmm, guess which side I’m choosing?

And these are 2 different things. Being a responsible person and a competitor. Anna is definitely wise beyond her years. Under any metric. She embodies the best of sports.

But during competition, what’s considered irresponsible by the fans is actually what makes the greats great. She wanted that win so much that she was willing to risk the lives of others. That’s the kind of selfishness that separates the good from the great. I applauded it then and applaud it now. I love that Anna values a gold medal more than my life. Absolutely love it!

Being selfish in sports is an admirable attribute. You are there to crush your opponents not make friends or worry about a pandemic or anything else.

People that want to “play nice” and do it “for fun” and skate to be popular are exactly the kind of opponents Anna will steamroll.

 

[b-man]

Remember when Zijun Li had to quit because her diet was so restricted she'd faint regularly and she wasn't allowed to drink water?

Never heard that about Zijun. That is upsetting. She was so lovely at London Worlds.

 

[Thrashergurl]

I definitely didn’t criticize her. The people that did and wanted her to quit will never be national and world champions. Anna’s way is the champions way, the champions way will never be the fans’ way. I don’t want to watch the fans skating.

One has medals and accolades and the other side has criticisms. Hmm, guess which side I’m choosing?

And these are 2 different things. Being a responsible person and a competitor. Anna is definitely wise beyond her years. Under any metric. She embodies the best of sports.

But during competition, what’s considered irresponsible by the fans is actually what makes the greats great. She wanted that win so much that she was willing to risk the lives of others. That’s the kind of selfishness that separates the good from the great. I applauded it then and applaud it now. I love that Anna values a gold medal more than my life. Absolutely love it!

Being selfish in sports is an admirable attribute. You are there to crush your opponents not make friends or worry about a pandemic or anything else.

People that want to “play nice” and do it “for fun” and skate to be popular are exactly the kind of opponents Anna will steamroll.

Have to be honest here, sometimes I wonder if you’re a troll. I’m not saying you are, but your posts are sometimes a little outrageous. Perhaps you’re truly a passionate die hard fan, and if so more power to you.

I hope you have this same attitude after the Olympics when Kamila steamrolls right over Anna and gets that gold medal.

Carry on.

 

[Skatingcat]

It seems that the only way the Russian girls could lose would be for them to not compete.

BUT if we were to pretend they *were* beatable, who do you think would have the snowball's-chance-in-hell skate of their lives and make the podium?

 

[anonymoose_au]

It seems that the only way the Russian girls could lose would be for them to not compete.

BUT if we were to pretend they *were* beatable, who do you think would have the snowball's-chance-in-hell skate of their lives and make the podium?

If Rika came back with her 3A and a quad Sal and she did the 3A and 4S in combo during the free and landed the 3A in the SP she could maybe make it.

Same with Alysa I think.

 

[Azikin]

If Rika came back with her 3A and a quad Sal and she did the 3A and 4S in combo during the free and landed the 3A in the SP she could maybe make it.

Same with Alysa I think.

Do you really believe it?

 

[alexocfp]

Have to be honest here, sometimes I wonder if you’re a troll. I’m not saying you are, but your posts are sometimes a little outrageous. Perhaps you’re truly a passionate die hard fan, and if so more power to you.

I hope you have this same attitude after the Olympics when Kamila steamrolls right over Anna and gets that gold medal.

Carry on.

If you equate being honest to being a troll, then so be it. I find nothing outrageous with having a win at any cost attitude in high level sports especially. Nothing at all. Competitors shouldn’t be there to play nice.

I know a lot of folks don‘t watch any sports besides figure skating so they might not see the sports world outside the FS bubble.

I like Kamila too actually. And she is the gold medal favorite and rightfully so.

If she steamrolls Anna, I’ll be the first to applaud her.

Kamila‘s goal should be to steamroll Anna actually. To crush her spirit and her will to continue on.

 

[flanker]

After reading this funny exchange I would only say this:

Anna gained the most amazing victory at the best figure skating competition we have witnessed till this day!

Like it or not, it's up to you, it only shows something about you.

(Then I wrote some other things, but to be honest, it would be useless as it was useless many times before, so I decided to withdraw them )