Will Zagitova return?

[Scott512]

If Zagitova does not compete in the autumn and there is a Grand Prix, who will receive her assignments?

Nastyas plural!

 

[flanker]

Well that video they link in that article is the same one I was referring to, the only one they've ever put out I guess. And that's not a landed jump, although already with help of the harness.
But if she said so... although she has also said that you need to learn quads while you're young and that she'd have to lose like 5kg to even hope for it? So anyways, I don't think we will ever see a landed quad from her in competition. Before that happens Trusova becomes a PCS skater, Medvedeva gets a correct Lz edge.
But I'd be delighted to be wrong

No offense to Alina, as I’m sure she is working very hard to come back, I do not see her getting a quad flip for next season. Although the attempt in the video is impressive, it’s from 2018, and with her break and the rink closing because of the coronavirus, I do not think she will be able to nail it consistently in time for Russian nationals. I could be wrong, however, and I think it’s possible to see her landing it in the Olympic season if she stays healthy and doesn’t grow anymore.

Her words didn't refer to that video at all, as I've said, she said that in an interview for Cosmopolitan, this is only a short resume from it made by another medium, which added that old video to it.

I like that starlight97 didn't meant the question as "a negative comment", though I wonder how a negative comment would look like then

 

[AshWagsFan]

Her words didn't refer to that video at all, as I've said, she said that in an interview for Cosmopolitan, this is only a short resume from it made by another medium, which added that old video to it.

I like that starlight97 didn't meant the question as "a negative comment", though I wonder how a negative comment would look like then

I see, didn’t have time to read the full interview earlier, just saw the video.

Maybe the quad flip will happen for her? I don’t know, another question we all have about Zagitova I guess, she always seems to keep things interesting

 

[starlight97]

I like that starlight97 didn't meant the question as "a negative comment", though I wonder how a negative comment would look like then

You can find them all over the place, they make up like 30% of this forum where people bash and attack girls and their coaches on a personal level without any real life evidence to support their agression.

My comment is simply a realistic assessment even stating that I hope that she defies logic. We have never seen her land one, that video from years ago is not landed even on a harness and last season she could not even jump her 3-3 in competition. So there is no reason to play with the idea of her getting a quad. Like she herself said, common believe is that you need to get them when you're young and even if you got them then, many will lose them after puberty, like these girls tend to do with their jumps in general.
Not just Alina, I'd also be surprised of the 3 other girls still have their ultrac that they do now in the olympic season.
I'd be extremely impressed with her if she manages to get her 2018 content back, maybe even the 3Lz-3Lo stable and rotated again. That would be a huge achievement for her and I think that's the highest she can go. Especially after this break.
"But Elizaveta got a quad!" Yes she "got" one, as far as landing it in practice goes, that hasn't translated to competition and apart from that Liza has always had extraordinary jumps with spring from her legs, while Alina relies more on twisting and upper body pull. It's that movement of snapping the arms in that you can always see the Eteri girls drill 20 times before skating.
Alina is my second favorite skater out there right now, I rooted for her at the Olympics and whenever else after that. I'm also a fan of Sambo in general and while others like to bash her coaches, I consider them genius, like their style and methods or not. I'm just being realistic and sceptical.

 

[Happy Skates]

If Zagitova does not compete in the autumn and there is a Grand Prix, who will receive her assignments?

Depends on who else got them in the first place. If we assume Vasilieva got two initially, then Konstantinova and Tarakanova are next in line. It would probably be one/both of them.

 

[lesnar001]

Perhaps she could do 3Lz-Eu-3F and solo 3S instead since she seems much more comfortable with flip than sal and I think Euler flip combos are cool and unique

I like this. Something unique like this would really make her stand out.

In a Ladies field that is this unbelievably talented, the more she can do to stand out, the better.

I know that she instantly grabbed my attention with her DQ program because it was the first time I had ever seen a program desisgned that way. To me the uniqueness of the backloading was more important than the couple of extra points in scoring it gave her. But of course those "couple of extra points" were very important also!

 

[flanker]

Perhaps she could do 3Lz-Eu-3F and solo 3S instead since she seems much more comfortable with flip than sal and I think Euler flip combos are cool and unique

That wouldn't be GOE-wise layout, the jumps with high BV should be combined with those with low BV (that's BTW one of the things that brings low scores to Liza).

 

[Baron Vladimir]

That wouldn't be GOE-wise layout, the jumps with high BV should be combined with those with low BV (that's BTW one of the things that brigs low scores to Liza).

Yes. According to the current rules 2A -3Lo combo and single 3Lz will give you more points (on the paper) than 3Lz-3Lo combo and single 2A, when all jumps are performed equally (with the same GOE). However, i think judges are aware that 3Lz-3Lo combo is the hardest triple-triple and tends to award it with a higher GOE because of that. So, in the end results are more/less the same. But if i am a skater in the current rules i will train to jump 2A-3Lo and 3Lz-3T. I think Orser even tried to put 2A-3Lo in Zhenya's programme, but it wasn't successful.

 

[plushyfan]

Is Tarakanova going to move to senior? We have no info yet. I would like to see her on GP the most!

 

[lesnar001]

Yes. According to the current rules 2A -3Lo combo and single 3Lz will give you more points (on the paper) than 3Lz-3Lo combo and single 2A, when all jumps are performed equally (with same GOE). However, i think judges are aware that 3Lz-3Lo combo is the hardest triple-triple and tends to award it with a higher GOE because of that. So, in the end results are more/less the same. But if i am a skater in the current rules i will train to jump 2A-3Lo and 3Lz-3T. I think Orser even tried to put 2A-3Lo in Zhenya's programme, but it wasn't successful.

I'm a little confused on the highlighted part? I thought the jump values in a combo were just added together? Or did something change under this newest set of rules put into place?

In any event, if I were a judge, I would want to encourage more difficult or more unique combos.
So I would really want to reward something like a 3Lz-Eu-3F (as long as it done well) more than a run of the mill combo that everyone is doing.

 

[Happy Skates]

I'm a little confused on the highlighted part? I thought the jump values in a combo were just added together? Or did something change under this newest set of rules put into place?

In any event, if I were a judge, I would want to encourage more difficult or more unique combos.
So I would really want to reward something like a 3Lz-Eu-3F (as long as it done well) more than a run of the mill combo that everyone is doing.

You are correct, the jump values are just added together to make the base value. However, what this poster is referring to is how the GOE would be affected. In a jump combination, the GOE is scaled by the highest valued jump in the combination. So if you get a +4 on a 3lz3lo, you get 40% of the base value of a lutz added to the base value of the entire combination. On the other hand, if you do a 2a3lo with a +4, you get 40% of the 3lo added. So if you a 2a3lo and a 3Lz both at +4, you will get the base value of all three jumps plus 40% of a lutz and 40% of a loop, where as if you do a 3Lz3lo and a 2a both with +4, you get the base value of all three plus 40% of a lutz and 40% of a 2a, which is less than the former. I don't think that the rules necessarily intended it to discourage harder combinations, but that is the effect, although the judges probably do give more benefit of the doubt to harder combos.

I personally think there should be some sort of "connection bonus" like they have in gymnastics. Doing a loop after another jump is waaay harder than doing it on its own, and definitely harder than doing a toeloop combination (for most people, there are exceptions of course). 3Lz+eu+3F is also super hard and unique, and I would love to see that encouraged too. I also kind of wish eulers didn't count as a jump, but thats another conversation.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I'm a little confused on the highlighted part? I thought the jump values in a combo were just added together? Or did something change under this newest set of rules put into place?

In any event, if I were a judge, I would want to encourage more difficult or more unique combos.
So I would really want to reward something like a 3Lz-Eu-3F (as long as it done well) more than a run of the mill combo that everyone is doing.

Happy Skates explained my point :agree: However, as you are saying, judges also reward uniqueness, variety and originality, as the things which are according to them harder to do, through the GOE points. So many different strategies may be effective at the same time. In the current system 2A-3Lo just looks to me as both original and scoring wise effective to potentially gain more points to the whole programme if it is combined well with the rest of the jumps content.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Regarding Zagitova's GP spots, I think she may do the GP and idk about beyond GP and possibly GPF but here are the spots for Russian ladies on the GP this year:

18 spots, 6 events, 3 skaters per event. The tiers are just for how the fed will choose to set them up against each other. So for most events it'll be a skater from tier one, a skater from tier 2, and a skater from tier 3.

Tier 1
Aleksandra Trusova 2
Anna Shcherbakova 2
Alena Kostornaia 2

Tier 2
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 2
Evgenia Medvedeva 2
Alina Zagitova 2*

Tier 3
Ksenia Sinitsyna 2 (bump up a tier if Zagi WD)
Sofia Samodurova 2
Viktoria Vasilieva 1
Anastasia Guliakova host pick

Possible scenarios:

Fed only gives Sofia one spot: her other spot goes to Vasilieva

Alina doesn't do the GP: her spots are split between Vasilieva and Gubanova/age falsified Valieva (joking obviously)

Fed only gives Sofia one spot AND Alina doesn't do GP: Sofia's spot goes to Vika V, Alina's spots go to Gubanova and one of Tarakanova, Tsibinova, or Nugumanova

Edit: if Alina doesn't want to do the Grand prix, she's going to have to tell us/the fed soon. If she withdraws after assignments are out, the spots will not go to Russia, but to another skater from another country.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The tiers are just for how the fed will choose to set them up against each other. So for most events it'll be a skater from tier one, a skater from tier 2, and a skater from tier 3.

The Russian Fed doesn't choose the GP line-ups aside from the one it hosts. In fact, I'd expect the US and Japan to try to pick weaker Russian women to go against their top skaters.

 

[gehirn]

There is a news report that Vika Vasilieva will continue as a pairs skater so we can count her out.
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1086073240.html?sl=1

 

[nussnacker]

There is a news report that Vika Vasilieva will continue as a pairs skater so we can count her out.
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1086073240.html?sl=1

Unexpected, but she probably made the right call.

 

[macy]

i feel like some of the posts from this thread should probably be moved to the Russian ladies thread and continued there? seems like we have gone pretty off topic from whether or not Alina will come back and more to general Russian ladies talk.

 

[Scott512]

There is a news report that Vika Vasilieva will continue as a pairs skater so we can count her out.
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1086073240.html?sl=1

1 poster in the Russian ladies thread had Victoria with two senior Grand Prix events this upcoming season and now we learn she's moving to Paris. Shocking. But an article I read said she had joint problems so maybe this was a move that will be easier on her body.

i feel like some of the posts from this thread should probably be moved to the Russian ladies thread and continued there? seems like we have gone pretty off topic from whether or not Alina will come back and more to general Russian ladies talk.

You all right but what more can we say about Alinas come back? So far so good. Her come back is really going to happen.

 

[flanker]

You all right but what more can we say about Alinas come back? So far so good. Her come back is really going to happen.

With that statement this thread could be finished

 

[Scott512]

With that statement this thread could be finished

I suppose so. But someone will stir the pot tomorrow. Especially she has a bad practice. seriously though I say let her enjoy her career however many years she has left competitively. I want her left knee to hold up and I want Alina to leave on her own terms if it is possible.