- Joined
- Apr 17, 2018
Is that a 4lz tano by Anna??
No, it’s just a normal 4Lz, but a pretty big one!
Women and the Quad
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
No, it’s just a normal 4Lz, but a pretty big one!
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
Here is better version:
https://yadi.sk/i/c8YhZVeoEIyO3A
Trusova: 4T, 4Lz (fall), 4Lz (fall), 4Lz (fall), 4Lz+3T+1+3+1+3+1+3+1
Scherbakova: 4Lz+3T, 4Lz+3T
Akatieva: 3A, 4T (fall). 3A
Samsonov: 4Lz (step out), 4Lz
Tursynbaeva: 4S
https://yadi.sk/i/c8YhZVeoEIyO3A
Trusova: 4T, 4Lz (fall), 4Lz (fall), 4Lz (fall), 4Lz+3T+1+3+1+3+1+3+1
Scherbakova: 4Lz+3T, 4Lz+3T
Akatieva: 3A, 4T (fall). 3A
Samsonov: 4Lz (step out), 4Lz
Tursynbaeva: 4S
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
You know what guys... with critique towards ladies' quads, which is like 50% of this thread (and I firmly believe this is only happening because it's Eteri students),
I was wondering what the strict rule sticklers think about full-blade assist and prerotations on triples of skaters like Satoko, Mai, Eunsoo, Bradie, Evgenia, Sofia and many others (who are fan favorites and not Eteri students lol).
Judging by this logic, these many many top skaters shouldn't even be attempting triples and should stick to doubles, because of how much they cheat the take off on triples.
I don't see people crying why their triples are getting the points and not downgraded to doubles or marked as underrotated. The textbook rules aren't applied in this case, are they?
Anyways, if a triple with the same take off gets a full credit, and was always getting one for past and current senior ladies, I don't see why quads shouldn't. The end. =)
And of course, props to Eteri show, the only show in the world where you will witness multiple quads by different ladies. Mindblowing!
I was wondering what the strict rule sticklers think about full-blade assist and prerotations on triples of skaters like Satoko, Mai, Eunsoo, Bradie, Evgenia, Sofia and many others (who are fan favorites and not Eteri students lol).
Judging by this logic, these many many top skaters shouldn't even be attempting triples and should stick to doubles, because of how much they cheat the take off on triples.
I don't see people crying why their triples are getting the points and not downgraded to doubles or marked as underrotated. The textbook rules aren't applied in this case, are they?
Anyways, if a triple with the same take off gets a full credit, and was always getting one for past and current senior ladies, I don't see why quads shouldn't. The end. =)
And of course, props to Eteri show, the only show in the world where you will witness multiple quads by different ladies. Mindblowing!
I don't like Satoko's jumps because of their UR tendencies, but sometimes she doesn't UR and thus shouldn't be penalised then. Satoko should be penalised whenever she URs.
Evgenia's flutz has somewhat improved over the season, but at Worlds, her flutz returned and should clearly be called. Her prerotation on her jumps is fairly egregious and they're still muscled, albeit not quite as much as before.
I haven't scrutinised Mai, Eunsoo, Bradie or Sofia as much, but prerotated 3Lz, 3T are still pretty common amongst most women. It's not that they shouldn't attempt triples; they should at least have a poor takeoff called and an appropriate GOE reduction applied. I would love to see prerotated triples called too.
I don't harbour any particular hatred towards Eteri skaters. They're just too visible for criticism; my attention is drawn towards them because they score highly and attempt difficult jumps. I was first alerted to prerotation through videos on Eteri skaters and that's made me scrutinise other skaters too (but I haven't watched enough skaters in slow mo admittedly).
Overall, the main issue with quads, and specifically junior's quads is that those girls are not fan favorites. Yes, they have their fan base, but it is smaller, due to the low visibility juniors get, and the short time span they are performing internationally.
Then - honestly there are very few people who just fairly bash everybody bad technique. Most people "forgive" their favs, and bash everybody else. This was clearly visible at the Olympics, with Medvedeva's fans complaining about Osmond's flutz, and Osmond fans complaining about Medvedeva's flutz, and both overlooking the fact that their own fav also flutzes. Is it bad? I mean, even TAT does it, watch her commenting WTT, and first bashing Samarin because "team competitions are not a place to try new elements" and then going extatic about Shoma's 3A-4T because "this competition is where you try new stuff".
Also, people do not complain much about the technique of someone who is out of the top 10 at major competitions. I mean, do you see many people scrutinizing Isadora Williams' jumps? Those skaters are not competing for medals, and people just enjoy (if enjoy) their skating and thats it. The major "bad technique" discussions are always about the top contenders.
So with Eteri juniors, we have this issue - they yet dont have their own fan base as large as of the other top skaters, and they are about to challenge literally everybody's favourites. And, based on what they put out, they can totally dethrone everybody's favs.
This is why there are so many complains about their technique here. People are not happy that their favs will be beaten. \But if you look closely, it is as bad as everybody else's, really. Most top skaters have some sort of issues, and if Eteri's juniors are judged strictly, then everybody should be judged strictly, and chances are they will be still winning, because if Sasha's 4T and 4Lz are URd, under equal scrutiny pretty much all top skaters would get a basket of carrots too. And so on.
Then - honestly there are very few people who just fairly bash everybody bad technique. Most people "forgive" their favs, and bash everybody else. This was clearly visible at the Olympics, with Medvedeva's fans complaining about Osmond's flutz, and Osmond fans complaining about Medvedeva's flutz, and both overlooking the fact that their own fav also flutzes. Is it bad? I mean, even TAT does it, watch her commenting WTT, and first bashing Samarin because "team competitions are not a place to try new elements" and then going extatic about Shoma's 3A-4T because "this competition is where you try new stuff".
Also, people do not complain much about the technique of someone who is out of the top 10 at major competitions. I mean, do you see many people scrutinizing Isadora Williams' jumps? Those skaters are not competing for medals, and people just enjoy (if enjoy) their skating and thats it. The major "bad technique" discussions are always about the top contenders.
So with Eteri juniors, we have this issue - they yet dont have their own fan base as large as of the other top skaters, and they are about to challenge literally everybody's favourites. And, based on what they put out, they can totally dethrone everybody's favs.
This is why there are so many complains about their technique here. People are not happy that their favs will be beaten. \But if you look closely, it is as bad as everybody else's, really. Most top skaters have some sort of issues, and if Eteri's juniors are judged strictly, then everybody should be judged strictly, and chances are they will be still winning, because if Sasha's 4T and 4Lz are URd, under equal scrutiny pretty much all top skaters would get a basket of carrots too. And so on.
Except I don't mind seeing a whole bunch of carrots, even if my favourites get called them too.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
Um, Satoko's issue isn't only the fact that she underrotates almost every single triple she ever did (and she's not called as often as she truly should), but her prerotation.
If 180 degrees is excessive, then Satoko is in a whole new league in terms of pr.
Satoko is THE OG preortator, no one even comes close. :cool14:
https://imgur.com/k9xHT98
If 180 degree prerotation should get a carrot, Satoko's should be dowgraded only because of her 270 degree prerotation. + one more carrot for underrotation.
You sure? https://imgur.com/xOBsImX That's her lutz btw ;D
let me help you
Eunsoo - flutz+prerotation+full blade
https://imgur.com/a/tkdoC9l
https://imgur.com/twtyAMq
https://imgur.com/5bj654o
Mai - flutz+prerotation+full blade
https://imgur.com/UyU1vq7
Sofia same thing
https://imgur.com/WZRZUT6
I was too lazy to do Bradie, but you get the point, right? to finish off japanese ladies, you'll get a bonus of Rika and Kaori =)
Rika - 180 degree prerotation
https://imgur.com/rM436KX
Kaori as per usual
https://imgur.com/uTxPKlZ
I guess, Rika should also get a carrot, since she prerotates too, right? She might have a nice edge and toe-pick, but prerotation is still there. And we're being very strict with everyone, even our favorites, right? :handw:
Well... that's exactly my point. Isn't public opinion such an easy thing to manipulate, making them think it's only Eteri skaters who have issues by making a few videos?
I have an issue that Mai and Eunsoo never ever get called for the flutzes. I have an issue that Satoko isn't called for every single one of her URs, and if she did, she would be losing like 20 points every time and finishing safely outside of top ten, even if we'd give her 80 in components.
And the point is not to scrutinize more ladies, than we currently do now, not at all... perfection is a very questionable topic for me, especially when everyone's compared to one of 3 textbook jumpers (Yuna, Karolina, Elizaveta).
I can give you an example, I think Kaori landings are perfection, incredible speed, soft knees, the running edge..ah!
And I want to regulate every single landing to be like Kaori's. If it deviates slightly, doesn't have the same knee softness or crazy speed coming out, then I want everyone except Kaori to get a deduction on the bad landing, or at least not get a point for a good landing. Good landing is Kaori landing, that deserves +1, the others are just regular and plain in comparison, thus should not get a + for their landings and should be marked as 0, not a +1. Otherwise, we aren't differentiating between good, average and bad, and skaters should get rewarded for the exceptional landings
If this suggestion seems ridiculous to you, it seems fair to me, since the bar of +1 should be absolute perfection not only for take offs, but also for landings.
Anyways, again, the point is not to put more microscopic analysis just to shame ALL female skaters we currently have, except for Elizaveta, it is to show that perfection should be demanded equally from everyone else then, not just from Eteri students. If everyone does the exact same thing, why only a handful is always scrutinized?
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
https://m.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ternovblogfk/2269103.html
This guy measured the height and prerotation of most top senior ladies. It had been posted before but I thought that some of you might still be interested.
This guy measured the height and prerotation of most top senior ladies. It had been posted before but I thought that some of you might still be interested.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
The height of Polina's 3Lutz is insane. It has the perfect height for a Quad.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2018
Honestly, I would argue the 3A’s fanbases, individually, have more people than Mai, Eunsoo, Satoko etc.
But that’s beyond the point. I think it’s true people suddenly have a clearer vision about PR when it comes to Eteri girls, mostly because they are so infamous for their technique. But they ignore the fact that so many other skaters have the same amount of PR on their triples! So if Sasha and Anna shouldn’t be getting ratified quads, a good majority of ladies won’t even be getting ratified triples. I still stand by my idea that PR and UR should be combined to see if a jump is actually UR, and that the ISU should actually give a number of how much PR is allowed!
But that’s beyond the point. I think it’s true people suddenly have a clearer vision about PR when it comes to Eteri girls, mostly because they are so infamous for their technique. But they ignore the fact that so many other skaters have the same amount of PR on their triples! So if Sasha and Anna shouldn’t be getting ratified quads, a good majority of ladies won’t even be getting ratified triples. I still stand by my idea that PR and UR should be combined to see if a jump is actually UR, and that the ISU should actually give a number of how much PR is allowed!
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Don't know if this really belongs here, where quads are measured, discussed and discarded, but one cannot have enough evidence of the unique quad battles from the Champions on Ice show in Krasnodar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiSyyiW9ahI
Not all attempts were caught on camera April 21, but with combining all the clips we should slowly get there.
#TeamTutberidzeForProgress stole the show, with Visitors from the Future even in the persons of Daniil Samsonov and Sof'ya Akat'yeva.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiSyyiW9ahI
Not all attempts were caught on camera April 21, but with combining all the clips we should slowly get there.
#TeamTutberidzeForProgress stole the show, with Visitors from the Future even in the persons of Daniil Samsonov and Sof'ya Akat'yeva.
Kamila Valieva - 4T+3T https://www.instagram.com/p/BwuQxAMHyhf/
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
poor Alisa Liu
Why poor? She's able to do 3A and 4lz.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
A truely complete skater should be more than the number of triples and quads.
Every rink in contention for JGPF will also work on skating skills, presentation, choreography to give their skaters the complete package. One trick wonders will do nobody any good.
Every rink in contention for JGPF will also work on skating skills, presentation, choreography to give their skaters the complete package. One trick wonders will do nobody any good.
Not for a while IMO... at least after 2026.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Yah, no rules will be changed during the Olympic preparation and qualification phase. Only after the 2022 OG, at the next ISU FS congress.
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