2016-17 GPF Mens FS

[MIM]

I rewatched men's event and most impressed with Shoma's skating. He was the complete skater that night. I thougt he was still like a boy last season. But, this LP really highlights his mature and in depth artistry and sets him up high as one of the best. Every man in the GPF and Boyang has a compelling package with a unique quality. And I think Shoma has reached to the most complete, finished form that he has aimed at faster than the others at this point. Cheers!!

I hope top men can compete at their best at the worlds. That will be epic!

Yes I saw his mouth moved with loco and piantao both means crazy. Now Shoma has gotten me interested in Argentinian creativity. Those imagery in the lyrics are really different from other cultures. And I know of Piazzolla. He composed the Tango-Etudes for Flute, 6 of them which no. 5 is usually featured in Grade 8 ABRSM flute exams.

I love the music "Balada para un loco". Do you happen to know who the vocal is?

 

[MaiKatze]

I rewatched men's event and most impressed with Shoma's skating. He was the complete skater that night. I thougt he was still like a boy last season. But, this LP really highlights his mature and in depth artistry and sets him up high as one of the best. Every man in the GPF and Boyang has a compelling package with a unique quality. And I think Shoma has reached to the most complete, finished form that he has aimed at faster than the others at this point. Cheers!!

I hope top men can compete at their best at the worlds. That will be epic!


I love the music "Balada para un loco". Do you happen to know who the vocal is?

Ha, I answered your question in the fanfest thread...but here it is. German Eurosport says it's Milva, who is quite famous in Germany and collaberated with Piazzolla. The album was also released in Japan, says Wikipedia.

 

[jeff goldblum]

Listening to the track on YouTube, it definitely sounds like Milva, although the exact version Shoma is using doesn't seem to be there. I think there's a bit of improvisation in the live performances of the music.

I have mixed feelings about Shoma's skating though. I love this program and the intensity of it; I think he moves so well to this music. I'm not sure what the British Eurosport guy was talking about with not skating to the beat. Even my father, who admittedly doesn't know a great deal about skating but did watch me practice for roughly ten years, seems to be most impressed by Shoma. Unfortunately, as enjoyable as the program is, it is hard to ignore the fact that there is just a lot of two foot skating, basic crossovers and stroking, and relatively simple turns. For him to really challenge, and I don't doubt that he can, I think he needs to master more complex skating as far as his feet are concerned. I know this has already been beaten to death, but the jump technique bothers me too. The judges don't seem to mind too much, but I think his pre-rotation is a large cause of the open left side he often struggles to correct on his landings. These are maybe minor details in the grand scheme of things, but I think if he can improve in these areas he could attain the sort of level Hanyu has; if he skates perfectly no one can beat him.

 

[jeff goldblum]

Nathan was impressive and, as skeptical as I was about his abilities last year, he has definitely improved a lot very quickly. Not quite a Michelle Kwan-esque transformation yet, but definitely setting himself up to be a contender at the Olympics (actually this year's worlds as well). However, since no one seems to have pointed this out: Nathan skated essentially technically perfectly the "most difficult program ever attempted" and still scored 7.79 points less than Hanyu did in TES at last year's GPF. Before people cry out that you can't compare competition to competition or that Hanyu's scores were inflated last year, nearly 8 points is a very large difference and probably can't be written off entirely for those reasons, especially since the BV of Hanyu's program last year was 5 points lower than Chen's this year. The point is that the results are not as scary as some people might think. Hanyu of course is beatable, but, as has been said hundreds of times, if he skates perfectly no one will touch him. Chen is improving, but he is definitely still in a place in his career where he needs to skate perfectly and take advantage of mistakes by others in order to be victorious.

On a side note, if I was putting my money on either Boyang Jin or Nathan Chen going forward, it would be on Chen. To clarify, this comparison is between two younger skaters known for their quad jumps but who have tended to struggle more with the PCS side of things.

 

[MIM]

Ha, I answered your question in the fanfest thread...but here it is. German Eurosport says it's Milva, who is quite famous in Germany and collaberated with Piazzola. The album was also released in Japan, says Wikipedia.

Yay!! Thank you. Her voice is just captivating!!
I had lived in Spain about a year as an exchange student, found Luz Casal, and became a fan. My Spanish friends teased me that she is kinda tacky and old for our age, but I listens to her CD for years... I dig thoses soul touching deep female vocals. I think I found new obsession here thank you!

Listening to the track on YouTube, it definitely sounds like Milva, although the exact version Shoma is using doesn't seem to be there. I think there's a bit of improvisation in the live performances of the music.

I have mixed feelings about Shoma's skating though. I love this program and the intensity of it; I think he moves so well to this music. I'm not sure what the British Eurosport guy was talking about with not skating to the beat. Even my father, who admittedly doesn't know a great deal about skating but did watch me practice for roughly ten years, seems to be most impressed by Shoma. Unfortunately, as enjoyable as the program is, it is hard to ignore the fact that there is just a lot of two foot skating, basic crossovers and stroking, and relatively simple turns. For him to really challenge, and I don't doubt that he can, I think he needs to master more complex skating as far as his feet are concerned. I know this has already been beaten to death, but the jump technique bothers me too. The judges don't seem to mind too much, but I think his pre-rotation is a large cause of the open left side he often struggles to correct on his landings. These are maybe minor details in the grand scheme of things, but I think if he can improve in these areas he could attain the sort of level Hanyu has; if he skates perfectly no one can beat him.

Yeah I read posts concerning his PR jumps and lack of transition. Watching him again after reading your post, I realized he could have had more interesting moves between 4t2t and 3lz. That to me was one obvious "taking a break" moment. But, after that he attacks with 3a-1l-3f at the amazing musical timing, shortly followed by a 3sal (like a jump sequence), choreography sequence with a cantilever, and two very expressive spins to finish strong.

Compared to Javi, Yuzu, Chan, his jump layout is well balanced; 4F, 4T, 3Lo in the first half, 3a(what a timing!), 4t2t, 3lz,3a1l3f, 3s in the second half. Ideally he could add more elaborate moves before the quads (greatly improved than last yr, imo). It was smart of him to pick a music that makes his moves look extremely well controlled, even the subdued movements look intentional and less jarring. It is fortunate for him to have reliable 3As and spread eagles that he can throw anywhere at ease. He makes up also with the interesting transitions to/from the other triples that are well distributed throughout the program, not to mention he totally owned the steps sequence in the middle.

Overall, his program is well balanced and disguises his weakness IF there is. It is his 2nd year senior. I think this year he challenges his skating with music, hopefully next year we will see him challenge choreography, intricate moves and all that!

 

[MIM]

Nathan was impressive and, as skeptical as I was about his abilities last year, he has definitely improved a lot very quickly. Not quite a Michelle Kwan-esque transformation yet, but definitely setting himself up to be a contender at the Olympics (actually this year's worlds as well). However, since no one seems to have pointed this out: Nathan skated essentially technically perfectly the "most difficult program ever attempted" and still scored 7.79 points less than Hanyu did in TES at last year's GPF. Before people cry out that you can't compare competition to competition or that Hanyu's scores were inflated last year, nearly 8 points is a very large difference and probably can't be written off entirely for those reasons, especially since the BV of Hanyu's program last year was 5 points lower than Chen's this year. The point is that the results are not as scary as some people might think. Hanyu of course is beatable, but, as has been said hundreds of times, if he skates perfectly no one will touch him. Chen is improving, but he is definitely still in a place in his career where he needs to skate perfectly and take advantage of mistakes by others in order to be victorious.

On a side note, if I was putting my money on either Boyang Jin or Nathan Chen going forward, it would be on Chen. To clarify, this comparison is between two younger skaters known for their quad jumps but who have tended to struggle more with the PCS side of things.

I think his TES can still grow. He maxed his B.V. Probably. But he is missing great deal of GOEs in triple jumps and spins. He earned better goes for the first half quad jumps!. Shoma earns almost 1point more than Nathan per each (easy) element. I think his goal was to land all the quads and 3a. He still has things to clear in his list, and I think it is only the beginning of his great career to unfold.
1. He has to embellish spins and steps.
2. better goes on the second half triples.
3. Move at least one quad to the second half to have a balanced program.

 

[Arriba627]

Yay!! Overall, his program is well balanced and disguises his weakness IF there is. It is his 3rd year senior. I think this year he challenges his skating with music, hopefully next year we will see him challenge choreography, intricate moves and all that!

This is Shoma's 2nd year senior.

 

[MIM]

This is Shoma's 2nd year senior.

Oops, I have corrected my post. thank you! Even more impressive is his maturity!

 

[Arriba627]

Oops, I have corrected my post. thank you! Even more impressive is his maturity!

When I think of his skate from last year compared to this year, I think he has improved so much. But I love when they ask him what he needs to work on, many times he says "Everything!" He is not afraid of hard work, but unfortunately these improvements don't happen overnight! But I have grown to really love his tango.

 

[Ice Dance]

On a side note, if I was putting my money on either Boyang Jin or Nathan Chen going forward, it would be on Chen. To clarify, this comparison is between two younger skaters known for their quad jumps but who have tended to struggle more with the PCS side of things.

To my knowledge Nathan's "struggle" with PCS is limited to only his first year on the senior circuit & last year's senior Nationals. He isn't known for struggling with PCS. He has won the PCS mark in many a junior event. I don't think he struggles with PCS. I think he is struggling with combining the large number of quad jumps at the beginning of his program with PCS.

When comparing apples to apples, Hanyu's PCS in his first free skate at the GPF (his second year as a senior) was 10 points lower than his TES. 79.28 PCS in the free. At Worlds that year, Hanyu's PCS was 9 points lower than his TES. 83.00 PCS (Patrick, who won, scored higher on PCS than TES that year at Worlds and roughly the same TES & PCS at the GPF).

PCS marks in general have inflated over time so it is unfair to compare scores directly over so many years. But it is fair to say that during Hanyu's second senior season & first appearance at the GPF, he was 8 points behind the world leader in PCS during the free at the GPF. Nathan Chen (in his first year as a senior) finished 8 points behind world leader, Yuzuru Hanyu, in PCS during the free at this year's GPF.

 

[gsyzf]

Just change combo to 1st salchow and this will be enough. Additional pressure of the need to nail the combo there is not helping

I don't understand at all why combo is planned for 2nd salchow.

Once he adds 4lz to his layout, he will do 4lo, 4lz, 3f/ 4s3t, 4t, 3a3t, 3a-1lo-3s, 3lz. If he falls on 4s, he can do 4t3t instead and he won't get rep deduction. The younger skaters now have higher bv than him and they are improving. He will need to have 4lz to maintain his competitive edge.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

To my knowledge Nathan's "struggle" with PCS is limited to only his first year on the senior circuit & last year's senior Nationals. He isn't known for struggling with PCS. He has won the PCS mark in many a junior event. I don't think he struggles with PCS. I think he is struggling with combining the large number of quad jumps at the beginning of his program with PCS.

I'd say the "Nathan is struggling with PCS" thing is simply coming from what his LP looks like, not so much from any numbers. It's simply extremly empty and he's very focused on his tech. Since the comparison to Boyang is so famous - while Nathan has better SS, his LP is even emptier than Boyangs last season (and definitely more so this season).

When comparing apples to apples, Hanyu's PCS in his first free skate at the GPF (his second year as a senior) was 10 points lower than his TES. 79.28 PCS in the free. At Worlds that year, Hanyu's PCS was 9 points lower than his TES. 83.00 PCS (Patrick, who won, scored higher on PCS than TES that year at Worlds and roughly the same TES & PCS at the GPF).

PCS marks in general have inflated over time so it is unfair to compare scores directly over so many years. But it is fair to say that during Hanyu's second senior season & first appearance at the GPF, he was 8 points behind the world leader in PCS during the free at the GPF. Nathan Chen (in his first year as a senior) finished 8 points behind world leader, Yuzuru Hanyu, in PCS during the free at this year's GPF.

How is that apples to apples though? The scores back then were so different, and the Newbies were still scored way stinkier. You could compare more to Shoma/Boyang last season (and even that is kind of apples to oranges).

 

[da96103]

Once he adds 4lz to his layout, he will do 4lo, 4lz, 3f/ 4s3t, 4t, 3a3t, 3a-1lo-3s, 3lz. If he falls on 4s, he can do 4t3t instead and he won't get rep deduction. The younger skaters now have higher bv than him and they are improving. He will need to have 4lz to maintain his competitive edge.

Actually Yuzu could have tagged the 3T to the 4T when he fell on the second quad without any invalid element, as you pointed out in this event itself. (since a repeated jump where both are solos does not forfeit a combo jumping pass) Though it is not relevant in this event, since Fernandez and Chan closed the doors that have been open wide for them..

 

[da96103]

The future of Men's Figure Skating

Prince Igor v Loco "Piantao" Uno v Spiderman

Too exciting for words.

 

[da96103]

Once he adds 4lz to his layout, he will do 4lo, 4lz, 3f/ 4s3t, 4t, 3a3t, 3a-1lo-3s, 3lz. If he falls on 4s, he can do 4t3t instead and he won't get rep deduction. The younger skaters now have higher bv than him and they are improving. He will need to have 4lz to maintain his competitive edge.

He did say he want to a quadruple loop combo. So I think he intends to repeat the 4Lo.

4Lz, 4Lo, 3F, 4Lo+2T, 4T, 3A+3T, 3A+1Lo+4S, 3Lz
(same layout as this season with jumps being switched)
5 quads, 5 triples, you can't get more balanced than that.

 

[4everchan]

He did say he want to a quadruple loop combo. So I think he intends to repeat the 4Lo.

4Lz, 4Lo, 3F, 4Lo+2T, 4T, 3A+3T, 3A+1Lo+4S, 3Lz
(same layout as this season with jumps being switched)
5 quads, 5 triples, you can't get more balanced than that.

i know you like the five brothers... but i didn't think you wanted to see 4 of them in one skate... might as well just ditch the 3F and make it a quad

if Yuzu wants to raise his BV he can simply repeat quads and ditch the second 3A.

 

[gsyzf]

He did say he want to a quadruple loop combo. So I think he intends to repeat the 4Lo.

4Lz, 4Lo, 3F, 4Lo+2T, 4T, 3A+3T, 3A+1Lo+4S, 3Lz
(same layout as this season with jumps being switched)
5 quads, 5 triples, you can't get more balanced than that.

I believe the 4lo3t is for the sp, not for the lp. Hanyu now has lower bv in sp than uno, Chen and Jin too. The younger skaters are doing 4lz3t and 4f3t while he only does 4s3t on the sp. so he would need at least 4lo3t in the sp to up his tech and thus impress the judges even if the bv doesn't increase. Doing 4lo3t also allows him to add 3t to 4s if he fails his 4lo and is unable to do 4lo3t, so he won't lose too many points for missing the combo in the sp.

Doing 4-3 in the 2nd half of lp is more impressive than doing 4-3 in the 1st half. So i don't think he plans to do 4lo3t in the lp. His 4lo is no where near consistent to be done in the 2nd half of the lp.

 

[da96103]

I believe the 4lo3t is for the sp, not for the lp. Hanyu now has lower bv in sp than uno, Chen and Jin too. The younger skaters are doing 4lz3t and 4f3t while he only does 4s3t on the sp. so he would need at least 4lo3t in the sp to up his tech and thus impress the judges even if the bv doesn't increase. Doing 4lo3t also allows him to add 3t to 4s if he fails his 4lo and is unable to do 4lo3t, so he won't lose too many points for missing the combo in the sp.

Doing 4-3 in the 2nd half of lp is more impressive than doing 4-3 in the 1st half. So i don't think he plans to do 4lo3t in the lp. His 4lo is no where near consistent to be done in the 2nd half of the lp.

But there's no difference in BV between

4Lo, 4S+3T, 3A and
4Lo+3T, 4S, 3A

Unless you meant 4Lz, 4Lo+3T, 3A

 

[4everchan]

question : is yuzu landing 4Lz or is this just a rumour??? has he done them in quad battles??? i have seen videos of it yet.. and since we saw plenty of 4Loop videos before, I am curious

 

[da96103]

question : is yuzu landing 4Lz or is this just a rumour??? has he done them in quad battles??? i have seen videos of it yet.. and since we saw plenty of 4Loop videos before, I am curious

We are bored. Now we are doing piantao speculative posts. In a few more days, we will be talking about 4As.