2018 Europeans Ladies SP

[Seruleane]

Facial expression of course is part of it. I can't imagine how somebody who skates around with a blank face the whole time could be conceived as having strong performance skills. But performance is storytelling more generally, and you can tell a story with your arms and legs and chest as well as your face. Storytelling is emotional range and saying something even in quiet moments. I don't see any storytelling or performance in Zagitova's skating, just a lot of awkward kicking and arm-waiving in various directions.

She's certainly not the only skater with this problem.

It's true Alina doesn't give a lot of face during her performance, but she looks appropriately intense/dramatic during Black Swan, and appropriately flirtatious/happy in Don Quixote. I would hardly call her stone-faced.

 

[Bcash]

Facial expression of course is part of it. I can't imagine how somebody who skates around with a blank face the whole time could be conceived as having strong performance skills. But performance is storytelling more generally, and you can tell a story with your arms and legs and chest as well as your face. Storytelling is emotional range and saying something even in quiet moments. I don't see any storytelling or performance in Zagitova's skating, just a lot of awkward kicking and arm-waiving in various directions.

She's certainly not the only skater with this problem.

This has been my impression as well, which is why I think it's quite appropriate to label her performance juniorish.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Facial expression of course is part of it. I can't imagine how somebody who skates around with a blank face the whole time could be conceived as having strong performance skills. But performance is storytelling more generally, and you can tell a story with your arms and legs and chest as well as your face. Storytelling is emotional range and saying something even in quiet moments. I don't see any storytelling or performance in Zagitova's skating, just a lot of awkward kicking and arm-waiving in various directions.

She's certainly not the only skater with this problem.

But I see the story-telling in her body and her face as well. It's quite a dark and disturbing piece of work. The human attempting to make herself a vehicle of the intense, incredibly bombastic and intricate music and master the extraordinary precise and musically acute choreography as well as the technical content while on ice skates is the genesis of the story-telling to me. The conflict of Zagitova's very struggle for perfection within the frame that she's been given is one of the most compelling things I've ever seen in the sport, and complements the thematic content of BLACK SWAN perfectly. Her internal emotional life is so very alive in my opinion. I don't know what more somebody could ask from a 15 year old girl, except just a different style of performance.

 

[GGFan]

This has been my impression as well, which is why I think it's quite appropriate to label her performance juniorish.

I think there's a strange juxtaposition. In terms of the jumps she's mastered something that very few can. I guess the rough comparison would be to a ballerina who could pull off the most amazing fouetté turns at the end of Don Quixote at a very young age. She also mastered several things that the scoring system favors like beautiful jump positions, pretzel spins, difficult entries and exits, etc.

However while she's a prodigy in some sense from a philosophical point of view I wish figure skating were smarter than this. That is, a ballerina's technical proficiency does not mean that they've mastered the nuance and maturity comparable of someone with more experience. I think it's completely appropriate to lavish her with marks on the TES side but I wish the PCS side captured more depth.

Ultimately I think this all sets up bad incentives. The sport is promoting a breakneck style that possibly has burnout implications. The fact that it's not a more objective sport means that this is a choice by the powers that be. I do not see what the incentive is for Alina to improve if she's already "arrived." I think the sport should generally encourage folks to peak in the middle of their senior careers (with exceptions of course). I do not mean that anyone should be held down, but please do not look at me straight in the face and say that Alina is interpreting on the level of Michelle or Mao or even an up and coming artist like Satoko.

Next year how will they score her? Are they suddenly going to mark her skating skills down to where they belong? Time will tell.

 

[Lester]

I think there's a strange juxtaposition. In terms of the jumps she's mastered something that very few can. I guess the rough comparison would be to a ballerina who could pull off the most amazing fouetté turns at the end of Don Quixote at a very young age. She also mastered several things that the scoring system favors like beautiful jump positions, pretzel spins, difficult entries and exits, etc.

However while she's a prodigy in some sense from a philosophical point of view I wish figure skating were smarter than this. That is, a ballerina's technical proficiency does not mean that they've mastered the nuance and maturity comparable of someone with more experience. I think it's completely appropriate to lavish her with marks on the TES side but I wish the PCS side captured more depth.

Ultimately I think this all sets up bad incentives. The sport is promoting a breakneck style that possibly has burnout implications. The fact that it's not a more objective sport means that this is a choice by the powers that be. I do not see what the incentive is for Alina to improve if she's already "arrived." I think the sport should generally encourage folks to peak in the middle of their senior careers (with exceptions of course). I do not mean that anyone should be held down, but please do not look at me straight in the face and say that Alina is interpreting on the level of Michelle or Mao or even an up and coming artist like Satoko.

Next year how will they score her? Are they suddenly going to mark her skating skills down to where they belong? Time will tell.

Also when the younger ladies with 4T and other technical marvels arrive, I mean Zhenya and Alina's PCS have already hit the ceiling so probably they have no hope of beating them.

 

[lavoix]

For me the biggest w.t.f. is the fact that Alina was scoring 10 points less in PCS earlier in the season, so I can't understand what has changed?!

 

[jenm]

I think there's a strange juxtaposition. In terms of the jumps she's mastered something that very few can. I guess the rough comparison would be to a ballerina who could pull off the most amazing fouetté turns at the end of Don Quixote at a very young age. She also mastered several things that the scoring system favors like beautiful jump positions, pretzel spins, difficult entries and exits, etc.

However while she's a prodigy in some sense from a philosophical point of view I wish figure skating were smarter than this. That is, a ballerina's technical proficiency does not mean that they've mastered the nuance and maturity comparable of someone with more experience. I think it's completely appropriate to lavish her with marks on the TES side but I wish the PCS side captured more depth.

Ultimately I think this all sets up bad incentives. The sport is promoting a breakneck style that possibly has burnout implications. The fact that it's not a more objective sport means that this is a choice by the powers that be. I do not see what the incentive is for Alina to improve if she's already "arrived." I think the sport should generally encourage folks to peak in the middle of their senior careers (with exceptions of course). I do not mean that anyone should be held down, but please do not look at me straight in the face and say that Alina is interpreting on the level of Michelle or Mao or even an up and coming artist like Satoko.

Next year how will they score her? Are they suddenly going to mark her skating skills down to where they belong? Time will tell.

This.

I hope there will be a reset in scoring at the Olympics or the season after that. A clean slate if you will. There are a lot of up and coming junior skaters who have more artistry than Alina and Evgenia, how will they score them? PCS is only up to 80 pts. The only way is to reset the scoring and change a few things in the system.

 

[jenm]

For me the biggest w.t.f. is the fact that Alina was scoring 10 points less in PCS earlier in the season, so I can't understand what has changed?!

She's become Zhenya's rival for the gold.

 

[qwertyskates]

I don't agree that if you don't do facial expressions like Kostner's "Ne me quite pas" it's lacking in interpretation, expressionless or juniorish. Expression can be projected from movement, from the forms and shapes of the limbs and body. For example, P/C's Moonlight Sonata is neutral, abstract, their faces are stoic, but it is no less expressive compared to V/M's MR, which is more like Kostner's SP, love, drama, passion...even death.:noshake: