2018 Europeans Pairs FS

[Koralai]

Unpopular opinion... I don't think that people who have complained about Z/E as the "third Russian team" or some other static, not-event-specific descriptor are being fair to them. What matters is how they performed on this night. I won't comment on how they should have ranked against J/C, but I don't think they can be dismissed as unworthy of bronze simply because of who they are.

Just in terms of their personal competition with their own past performances, I thought they deserved to score much higher here than they did earlier in the season. I've never been able to figure out their free skate until I watched them skate it tonight. Something about it came together, at least for me, and they skated the whole thing with more speed and abandon than I can recall seeing from them. Also, after watching them back-to-back with some of the other teams, it became more obvious to me how exceptional some of their elements are, especially the twist.

It also helped that one of the Russian commentators in the video I was watching explained the concept of the free skate: two dancers begin the day at a barre class, have some kind of encounter in their free time, and then perform in a ballet together in the evening (hence the costume change). Not saying that's a groundbreaking concept, but it's an interesting one, and they've made it more playful as the season has progressed. The commentator also said something to the effect of, "that is the only one of Nina Mozer's teams tonight who has made her smile."

Regardless of the final placements, I give Z/E tons of credit for a much improved performance. And honestly, if I could only rewatch one performance from the event, I think it might be theirs, simply because they as a team made sense to me tonight in a way they haven't before.

 

[charlotte14]

Z/E just simply bore me. Nothing more.

 

[QuadThrow]

Maybe James and Cipres would be third (or even second) had the event been outside Russia, but I actually thought they deserved to be in fourth for the long. Their program was extremely messy with a botched twist, two footed quad (that should have gotten negative GOE), at least two out of three lifts that were very shaky, sloppy SBS spins, a pop by Vanessa on the first SBS combo and out of sync on the solo jump, and they only did an inside death spiral not an outside. I thought Z/E had better skating skills too, with every corresponding element stronger other than SBS.

S/K's was full of mistakes.

Hard fall with UR
Missed rotation from Fedor
Hand down at the salchow throw
Twist just level 1

No element was really impressive. No element deserved +3.

 

[bobbob]

S/K's was full of mistakes.

Hard fall with UR
Missed rotation from Fedor
Hand down at the salchow throw
Twist just level 1

No element was really impressive. No element deserved +3.

First of all S/K skating skills compared to J/C are .... incomparable. S/K are at least two notches higher.

And, honestly, no element of J/C was impressive or +3 worthy...the most impressive element was probably the 4STh but even so I would have given that element negative GOE. I think J/C had more technical flaws too--though both programs were filled with errors, at least S/K got through most of their pair elements. S/K had by no means an Olympic medal worthy program...but neither did J/C or Z/E. Even T/M's score, incorporating their botched short, would probably not be in medal range.

 

[Big Deal]

All in all this competition was in an unusual low level. Maybe they will get their peak in the Olympics in 3 weeks or something went wrong in figure skating. It is also true about MEN and GIRLS competition so far. Weird.... and as a loooong time fan since the early 70s it is saaaaad.

 

[viennaskater]

wait, the boring Russian team with that thin girl got bronze?

Bad, eh? I'm still annoyed that they are here AND going to the Olympics instead of Astakhova and Rogonov.

 

[viennaskater]

i don't wanna be rude or what, but we all know Tarasova/Morozov's PCS has been a joke that is even not funny. I don't even know if they should get a 7 for such a disgusting program, even juniors have better programs. Zabiiako/Enbert's program is really average. Stolbova/Klimov's program should get the highest PCS among the Russians, and the french should get a similar score to Stolbova/Klimov. This is just horribly wrong.

I would even accept Zabiiako/Enbert winning this event, at least they didn't have a big error despite having a really average program, unlike Tarasova/Morozov whose program is just artistically offensive:curse::angry1:

In the words of the English commentators on Eurosport, that free programme is NOT an 'Olympic gold' programme, even though they skated it well this time.

 

[charlotte14]

All in all this competition was in an unusual low level. Maybe they will get their peak in the Olympics in 3 weeks or something went wrong in figure skating. It is also true about MEN and GIRLS competition so far. Weird.... and as a loooong time fan since the early 70s it is saaaaad.

European skating field has been going down for too long.

 

[SimplyLex]

In the words of the English commentators on Eurosport, that free programme is NOT an 'Olympic gold' programme, even though they skated it well this time.

Any gold medalists in pairs other than S/M or S/H will be a surprise. I don't think anyone with eyes and basic knowledge of the sport thinks that Candyman can beat either of those teams, if they're relatively clean. This European podium just creates fake hype for Russian pairs. I wouldn't be surprised if no Russians ended up on the Olympic podium.

 

[Lester]

Unpopular opinion... I don't think that people who have complained about Z/E as the "third Russian team" or some other static, not-event-specific descriptor are being fair to them. What matters is how they performed on this night. I won't comment on how they should have ranked against J/C, but I don't think they can be dismissed as unworthy of bronze simply because of who they are.

Just in terms of their personal competition with their own past performances, I thought they deserved to score much higher here than they did earlier in the season. I've never been able to figure out their free skate until I watched them skate it tonight. Something about it came together, at least for me, and they skated the whole thing with more speed and abandon than I can recall seeing from them. Also, after watching them back-to-back with some of the other teams, it became more obvious to me how exceptional some of their elements are, especially the twist.

It also helped that one of the Russian commentators in the video I was watching explained the concept of the free skate: two dancers begin the day at a barre class, have some kind of encounter in their free time, and then perform in a ballet together in the evening (hence the costume change). Not saying that's a groundbreaking concept, but it's an interesting one, and they've made it more playful as the season has progressed. The commentator also said something to the effect of, "that is the only one of Nina Mozer's teams tonight who has made her smile."

Regardless of the final placements, I give Z/E tons of credit for a much improved performance. And honestly, if I could only rewatch one performance from the event, I think it might be theirs, simply because they as a team made sense to me tonight in a way they haven't before.

It was an alright skate. Except the hanging piece in his costume after the change D

Besides J/C made a lot of costly mistakes and skated very cautiously. Hopefully they will skate lights out at the Olympics.

 

[Lester]

Any gold medalists in pairs other than S/M or S/H will be a surprise. I don't think anyone with eyes and basic knowledge of the sport thinks that Candyman can beat either of those teams, if they're relatively clean. This European podium just creates fake hype for Russian pairs. I wouldn't be surprised if no Russians ended up on the Olympic podium.

I would be super surprised if that happens! Although I'd prefer it if whoever puts the best two performances together ends up on the podium.

 

[charlotte14]

Is it true that Bruno has back injury that's why why WD from European? I hope he will recover well. Olympics is so near.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

It was an alright skate. Except the hanging piece in his costume after the change D

Besides J/C made a lot of costly mistakes and skated very cautiously. Hopefully they will skate lights out at the Olympics.

But others made mistakes as well! And weren't punished for them?

 

[NoNameFace]

Re-watching 'top' 5 once again and looking at protocols some thoughts...

- generally speaking, in my opinion winner was clear yesterday, but the scale of the win and the rest of the podium could raise some brows and concerns. All 'top' Pairs there had some bigger or smaller issues yesterday, but agree that Evgenia/Vladimir had the least of them - yet I do not think that this kind of GOEs (for throws especially) and PCS (especially for interpretation and composition of the program) were needed to declare the victory; it really sends confusing message, looking for example how the program was performed/executed/looked overall during GP series and GPF and how it was therefore scored. We can cry as much as we like over this FS music choice/composition, costumes, attitude, overall outlook of it - the thing is for me that the idea itself, making them more fun, lighter, energetic is a great one, the problem lays in the packaging of it all; all the effort put into idea seems to be wasted by an afterthought-like execution of it. Speaking of execution of the actual program by Evgenia/Vladimir, I felt once again watching them yesterday that while they can keep up with elements, execute them clean-ish (more or less), there's little consideration over music tempo, keeping up with its energy by skate and performance, especially seeing last rock'n'roll dynamic part with them pretty much pushing through to the finish, running out of steam. The program sure lack elegance, finesse and sophistication comparing to others, but it is not the point of such program to make it like that - the point is to make it more cohesive and polished as a whole, in relation to their way of movement/expression, music/theme chosen. I think that there's no possibility to re-vamp it completely (as could have been done after GPF), because they've got the message to just skate it clean(ish) for getting the marks they need. The sad thing about all this situation for me is the fact that the program has not even grown throughout the season, like it has potential to do, which was confirmed yesterday; right now it's all about clean execution, with focus on the scores it will generate, it is effective, just not sure if should be all about that.

- the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place situation could go either way I think, but cannot help, but see the lack of balance in GOE/PCS reward and punishment between all 3 teams, looking at their performances and scores. I feel, I really feel for Vanessa/Morgan, mostly because of the fashion they've lost medal, comprising from their own rough performance and how other rough performances were scored. I do hope that this will be the best motivation and lesson they could possibly get and will let them go with new, bigger fire to Olympics. PB score for Zabiiako/Enbert is probably the most confusing thing of them all, looking at how they actually skated AND performed, but looking at Ksenia/Fedor still surpassing them in FS with skate they had is making things quite ridiculous. I really do get the love for 'Carmen' FS - because I'm a fan of this match myself - but can we pour the love more reasonably, in relation to the actual performance/execution of a program? Stolbova/Klimov for me had way more issues than Zabiiako/Enbert and those issues seemed more impactful not only for tech execution, but also for the continuity of performance/expression. Whatever angle and comparison we choose, there is always something confusing with scores and placements, it really could go either way...

 

[3T3T]

Not quite the competition I expected. Yes, T/M deserved to be clear winners but I think the performance quality was down on where it was for Russian Nationals. They seemed very focused on the elements and they did them all well, the throws had slight touchdown but they were huge. This programme doesn’t get much love and I kinda agree, it’s just does not suit their personalities. Over the years they have tried a lot of different styles (unlike most of the other pairs) my favorites being the Irish SP and Music from last years.

I was hoping that S/K would skate lights out but sadly that didn’t happen. I was hoping that they would be on an upward trajectory towards PyeongChang but I’m now worried for them. I’m not convinced they can go clean. I was delighted to see her land the combo only for him to double and then for her to fall on the 3S. I like their take on Carmen but I think all the mistakes are impacting on their PCS. They have so many qualities that the other Pairs don’t.

Z/E have had a good 2nd half of the season. I thought early on their Olympic place was at risk to A/R. I’m surprised they got a PB here. I was very impressed with their twist and the throws, she seemed to have tones of time in the air. I always found the programme a bit confusing with the costume change but someone earlier on in the thread and it now makes more sense. They definitely have improved.

I was disappointed for J/C but I think the pressure got to them. I’m not convinced they would have won but silver was there for taking. For me everything was just a bit scrappy and messy, nothing was really clean. The BESP guys felt they were marked generously on PCS.

I didn’t particularly care for M/H, I enjoyed the fun of the SP, but this seemed a bit heavy. DM/G were a bit sloppy here but they still scored well. I really felt the Austrians were marked harshly, the judges could have gone with them a bit more. I was very impressed with Spaniards, they have a very nice style.

Some of the lower end couples had very big age gaps. The Azeris had 14 (30 & 16), the Israelis 12 (29 & 17) the Spanish 11 (27 & 11). I would imagine an adult male with a teenage girl with bring another level of complexity to the partnership.

 

[Kinga]

The only performances that I will remember from this event belong to Austrians, Z/K.

 

[Crossover]

The only performances that I will remember from this event belong to Austrians, Z/K.

Yeah, I was gonna leave a comment about the Austrians' dramatic improvements on all aspects, but got carried away by the feeling over the final result. They are a totally different team than they used to be. They now deserve more PCS score than they've gotten. I quite enjoyed their both programs.

 

[Art&Sport]

Vanessa was obviously not at full strength after her injury, and they did not skate to their usual strength in the free skate, but that was a total f'ing lie that they were placed behind Z/E and S/K. T/M does not have a great fp and they were held up in both sp and fp.

Everyone who was saying J/C would win in Moscow were just whistling Dixie. What a complete political result. This, after J/C were robbed in their home country of a deserved gold medal on the GP. It's results like this that make me dislike figure skating. It's okay to hold up their own teams and to **** on deserving skaters. J/C did NOT skate so poorly that they should have been knocked off the podium by less than a point. That's a lie. Z/E are completely boring and are undeserving of their marks. J/C were robbed again.

It was not the pressure. J/C have stood up to pressure plenty of times. They have lost training time with Vanessa's injury and did well to prevail in the sp. Their timing and confidence is a bit off, but they still emoted well and deserved high PCS. They should have had better results at Euros last year when they skated so well. Their marks are usually over-managed. In fact, if T/M were given gold in France with a fp riddled with errors, please answer why you guys think J/C should fall to 4th because of slight miscues that were not major errors??? They still should have been on the podium. J/C are a much more interesting and watchable team and their program is better constructed than Z/E's who are completely boring. This is held in Russia and they put their 3 teams on top. Z/E had miscues and S/K were not good either.

Someone saying silver was J/C's for the taking. Well, they weren't at full strength, but they definitely should have at least taken bronze. This is partly a political result. No one skated their best, but the two top Russian teams were dealt with generously in the marks and Z/E are completely over-rated.

 

[David21]

Agreed. They have a clean SBS 3S (Morgan was a bit wild on the landing but it was landed - maybe a 0 at worst... if they were Russian it would have been +1/2's across) and that gets -GOE... meanwhile, the Russians are two footing throws (T/M), having poor twist (S/K), Z/E having a scratchy loop landing and what looked like a touchdown (hard to see for sure).... and getting GOE gifts galore.

The Frenchs also got gifts for their two-footed throw salchow and their awful, out of synch and too far apart sbs spins.

 

[Tolstoj]

Not quite the competition I expected. Yes, T/M deserved to be clear winners but I think the performance quality was down on where it was for Russian Nationals. They seemed very focused on the elements and they did them all well, the throws had slight touchdown but they were huge. This programme doesn’t get much love and I kinda agree, it’s just does not suit their personalities. Over the years they have tried a lot of different styles (unlike most of the other pairs) my favorites being the Irish SP and Music from last years.

I was hoping that S/K would skate lights out but sadly that didn’t happen. I was hoping that they would be on an upward trajectory towards PyeongChang but I’m now worried for them. I’m not convinced they can go clean. I was delighted to see her land the combo only for him to double and then for her to fall on the 3S. I like their take on Carmen but I think all the mistakes are impacting on their PCS. They have so many qualities that the other Pairs don’t.

Z/E have had a good 2nd half of the season. I thought early on their Olympic place was at risk to A/R. I’m surprised they got a PB here. I was very impressed with their twist and the throws, she seemed to have tones of time in the air. I always found the programme a bit confusing with the costume change but someone earlier on in the thread and it now makes more sense. They definitely have improved.

I was disappointed for J/C but I think the pressure got to them. I’m not convinced they would have won but silver was there for taking. For me everything was just a bit scrappy and messy, nothing was really clean. The BESP guys felt they were marked generously on PCS.

I didn’t particularly care for M/H, I enjoyed the fun of the SP, but this seemed a bit heavy. DM/G were a bit sloppy here but they still scored well. I really felt the Austrians were marked harshly, the judges could have gone with them a bit more. I was very impressed with Spaniards, they have a very nice style.

Some of the lower end couples had very big age gaps. The Azeris had 14 (30 & 16), the Israelis 12 (29 & 17) the Spanish 11 (27 & 11). I would imagine an adult male with a teenage girl with bring another level of complexity to the partnership.

They were right.

With the new box you can see in real time the GOE for each element and judges gave them positive GOEs for elements with very clear mistakes like the two-footed quad or the side-by-side spin completely out of sync and messy lifts.

I read here people saying that judges have created this fake hype for the russian sweep but honestly i think they really wanted to give J/C the podium but there were way too many mistakes.