2018 US Nats good juveniles, intermediates
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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No triples are allowed in Juv.
Intermediates can do triples. 3-2 combinations are somewhat common. I believe 3-3 are allowed but I have yet to see one from an Intermediate lady (and not that common in novice ladies). 3-1-3 have been done by intermediate ladies but they are very rare.
Intermediates can do triples. 3-2 combinations are somewhat common. I believe 3-3 are allowed but I have yet to see one from an Intermediate lady (and not that common in novice ladies). 3-1-3 have been done by intermediate ladies but they are very rare.
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Juvenile Dance Start Orders for tomorrow:
| Sun Dec 31 | 10:30 AM | Juvenile Dance / P1: Foxtrot | Start order |
| 11:45 AM | Juvenile Dance / P2: Cha Cha | Start order |
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- Dec 27, 2014
I quite enjoyed Indi Cha (SC of Boston) and Alyssa Chan (Dallas FSC) in intermediate ladies yesterday. I also enjoyed Haley Scott (First Coast FSC) and she could definitely move up in the standings if she hits her triples.
Wishing best of luck to all competitors in the free skating!
Wishing best of luck to all competitors in the free skating!
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January 1, 2018 start orders for Intermediates
| 9:30 AM | Intermediate Dance / P1: Tango | Start order |
| 10:45 AM | Intermediate Dance / P2: Fourteenstep | Start order |
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Juvenile Dance competition ends tomorrow.
Juvenile Dance
| Mon Jan 1 | 2:15 PM | Juvenile Dance / Free Dance | Start order |
Juvenile Dance
- Start time: Jan 01, 2:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
- Venue: Solar4America Ice
[*=right]Judge detail scores
| Start | Name | Previous | |
| Place | Score | ||
| 1 | Veronica Chunikhin, Peninsula SC Maxim Korotcov, Washington FSC | 10 | 24.57 |
| 2 | Saige Chaseley, Skokie Valley SC Aidan Bell, Skokie Valley SC | 11 | 20.61 |
| 3 | Juliana Newton, St. Moritz ISC Evan Mullins, Stockton FSC | 12 | 20.11 |
| 4 | Julia Epps, IceWorks SC Blake Gilman, Peninsula SC | 9 | 27.14 |
| 5 | Avery Weishaus, Detroit SC Laurent Sainte-Marie, Detroit SC | 6 | 32.41 |
| 6 | Amber Clift, St. Paul FSC Marcellus Krueger, St. Paul FSC | 8 | 28.85 |
| 7 | Macy Halim, Amherst SC Noah Lafornara, Niagara University SC | 7 | 31.08 |
| 8 | Emma L'Esperance, SC of Boston Mika Amdour, SC of Boston | 5 | 32.69 |
| 9 | Olivia Ilin, Washington FSC Dylan Cain, Washington FSC | 4 | 33.83 |
| 10 | Kristina Bland, Detroit SC Gabriel Francis, Detroit SC | 2 | 34.85 |
| 11 | Zoe Sensenbrenner, Peninsula SC Matthew Sperry, SC of Northern Virginia | 3 | 34.70 |
| 12 | Jenna Hauer, SC of Wilmington Benjamin Starr, Charter Oak FSC | 1 | 40.98 |
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I was on hold for an hour and a half but finally got it resolved. The person who helped me said it was an issue that affected a lot of people but had gotten resolved about five minutes before I talked to him. My account had frozen because of my repeated log ins, so he unlocked it and I was good to go. Finally!! Did you get it resolved too?
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Intermediate Dance Starts today, January 1st, 2018
| 9:30 AM | Intermediate Dance / P1: Tango | Start order |
| 10:45 AM | Intermediate Dance / P2: Fourteenstep | Start order |
| 2:15 PM | Juvenile Dance / Free Dance | Start order |
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Looking forward to a great afternoon of dance. These kids are so darn cute!! The future of US Ice Dance is bright!!
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Did you see the Peals? I caught their tango and was very impressed. Very sharp.
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Julia Epps and Blake Gilman, for cute factor alone you need to look them up on IN. So adorable!!
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The final Intermediate event is today, January 2nd, 2018:
| 12:10 PM | Intermediate Dance / Free Dance | Start order |
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Intermediate Dance FD Start Order
- Start time: Jan 02, 12:10 PM Pacific Standard Time
- Venue: Solar4America Ice
[*=right]Judge detail scores
| Start | Name | Pattern Dances | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Place | Score | ||
| 1 | Isabella Alexis, Arctic FSC Ethan Alday, All Year FSC | 11 | 22.89 |
| 2 | Hope Noelle Lassiter, Lone Star FSC Luke Anderson, St. Peters FSA | 9 | 29.12 |
| 3 | Raffaella Koncius, Kent Valley FSC Dane Ayers, Coyotes SC of Arizona | 10 | 26.31 |
| 4 | Maria Brown, Pavilion SC of Cleveland Heights Marius Driscoll, Pavilion SC of Cleveland Heights | 5 | 38.50 |
| 5 | Kelsey Schaub, IceWorks SC Anthony Haddad, All Year FSC | 8 | 35.12 |
| 6 | Alexandra Johnston, Dallas FSC Maxim Zharkov, Dallas FSC | 7 | 35.53 |
| 7 | Sabrina Foti, All Year FSC Christian Bennett, FSC of Charlotte | 6 | 35.86 |
| 8 | Elliana Peal, Skokie Valley SC Ethan Peal, Skokie Valley SC | 3 | 43.61 |
| 9 | Anna Gissibl, Philadelphia SC & HS Alexander Colucci, Peninsula SC | 2 | 45.88 |
| 10 | Nastia Efimova, Triangle FSC Jonathan Zhao, Triangle FSC | 4 | 40.00 |
| 11 | Claire Cain, Washington FSC Andrei Davydov, Washington FSC | 1 | 47.49 |
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- Jun 11, 2014
I agree with this post. I also had a daughter who competed through the junior level. I think it would be a good idea for USFSA to increase the number of girls qualifying to sectionals and nationals at the Juv, Intermediate, and Novice levels. This way kids would actually stay in the sport longer. I think the great equalizer in skating is puberty. I saw so many talented kids leave once their bodies changed...they looked like giants up against little 11 year old girls. By the time they are junior ladies things start to even out a bit. The benefits to this are many:
- More high level ladies skating at the local rinks inspiring other younger skaters
- Reduce the drop out rate and help keep local clubs, coaches, and rinks in business
- Reduce the injury rate as the need for triple lutz in intermediate would be less
As for the these levels competing at Nationals...I like that they compete with the senior and junior levels but it feels like an after thought. Perhaps USFSA could provide these kids with a separate junior nationals event but also invite them to nationals to be recognized or some type of exhibition on the ice.
- More high level ladies skating at the local rinks inspiring other younger skaters
- Reduce the drop out rate and help keep local clubs, coaches, and rinks in business
- Reduce the injury rate as the need for triple lutz in intermediate would be less
As for the these levels competing at Nationals...I like that they compete with the senior and junior levels but it feels like an after thought. Perhaps USFSA could provide these kids with a separate junior nationals event but also invite them to nationals to be recognized or some type of exhibition on the ice.
Anyone watch the intermediate dance? The Peal silblings winning was a bit of an upset I think? They were the cleanest out of the four, so not a surprise, per se. I enjoyed watching them!
They also have like the most awesome high five sequence!
Now I have to go back and watch that!
They also have like the most awesome high five sequence!
Now I have to go back and watch that!
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I like Isabeau Levito. She reminds me a bit of Sasha Cohen.
What's the purpose of limiting juvenile to 2a, but then allowing 3 lutz in intermediate? That seems like an awfully big jump (pun was not intended
).
Back in the 1990s, there weren't limits. The rare intermediate and even rarer juvenile would be attempting one or two different triples in the freeskate, usually 3S or 3T. (AP McDonough was a rare intermediate who attempted 3Lz.) (Short program jump limits were much more restrictive then than now. In the mid-90s, which I think is when the intermediate SP was introduced, the required jumps were 1A, solo 2S or 2Lo, and any double-double or double-single combination. The best jumpers would then do 2A+2T combo and 2Lo out of steps, or 2A+2Lo and 2S from steps.)
With 6.0 judging, this meant that skaters who couldn't actually rotate and land those jumps often felt they needed to show that they were trying, by including jumps they couldn't yet do in their programs. Lots of cheated and failed attempts, not many clean ones. The judges preferred to see clean programs.
Around the turn of the century USFSA Governing Council voted to put in jump caps, including no triples in juvenile and only two out of 2S, 2T, or 2Lo in Preliminary. I don't know the official reasoning, but I think it was partly to encourage skaters to focus on improving their basics before attempting harder jumps, partly to get rid of attempts at jumps that skaters had no hope yet of rotating, and partly to discourage sandbagging. I heard a story that a coach asked at that Governing Council "What about a juvenile who can do a triple jump?" and the rest of the room chorused "Test up!"
Then we got IJS, which especially at first had severe built-in penalties for cheated jumps, so skaters were less likely to try triples (or double axels in juvenile) unless they could at least land them clean in practice.
Meanwhile, the jump content in intermediate was increasing slowly but steadily, which the short program rules evolved to reflect by first allowing a choice of 1A or 2A as the solo axel, then allowing one triple in either the combination or the solo jump, then allowing two triples, and finally as of a year or two ago allowing 3-3 in the combination.
And because US ladies were not keeping with the highest jump standards in the rest of the world at the higher levels, a few years ago they introduced a bonus for non-downgraded double axels in juvenile, double axels and triples at intermediate, and triples and triple-triple combinations at novice. So now the ambitious intermediates and novices are focusing more on adding jump content, and the ones who succeed are most likely to get to Nationals, while for juveniles it's more about getting the double axel clean and aiming to stand out on spins and PCS.
(Among the juvenile and intermediate fields as a whole around the country, double axels and triples are very rare and it's more about getting the rest of the doubles clean. Cheated doubles are very common at these levels, especially juvenile.)
Also, keep in mind that juveniles don't have short programs and only get 5 jump passes in their freeskates.
I don't know whether there is any thought about allowing triples in the juvenile freeskate. I haven't heard of any. My guess is that the advice to an ambitious young skater who's ready to try triples in competition would remain the same: Test up!
With 6.0 judging, this meant that skaters who couldn't actually rotate and land those jumps often felt they needed to show that they were trying, by including jumps they couldn't yet do in their programs. Lots of cheated and failed attempts, not many clean ones. The judges preferred to see clean programs.
Around the turn of the century USFSA Governing Council voted to put in jump caps, including no triples in juvenile and only two out of 2S, 2T, or 2Lo in Preliminary. I don't know the official reasoning, but I think it was partly to encourage skaters to focus on improving their basics before attempting harder jumps, partly to get rid of attempts at jumps that skaters had no hope yet of rotating, and partly to discourage sandbagging. I heard a story that a coach asked at that Governing Council "What about a juvenile who can do a triple jump?" and the rest of the room chorused "Test up!"
Then we got IJS, which especially at first had severe built-in penalties for cheated jumps, so skaters were less likely to try triples (or double axels in juvenile) unless they could at least land them clean in practice.
Meanwhile, the jump content in intermediate was increasing slowly but steadily, which the short program rules evolved to reflect by first allowing a choice of 1A or 2A as the solo axel, then allowing one triple in either the combination or the solo jump, then allowing two triples, and finally as of a year or two ago allowing 3-3 in the combination.
And because US ladies were not keeping with the highest jump standards in the rest of the world at the higher levels, a few years ago they introduced a bonus for non-downgraded double axels in juvenile, double axels and triples at intermediate, and triples and triple-triple combinations at novice. So now the ambitious intermediates and novices are focusing more on adding jump content, and the ones who succeed are most likely to get to Nationals, while for juveniles it's more about getting the double axel clean and aiming to stand out on spins and PCS.
(Among the juvenile and intermediate fields as a whole around the country, double axels and triples are very rare and it's more about getting the rest of the doubles clean. Cheated doubles are very common at these levels, especially juvenile.)
Also, keep in mind that juveniles don't have short programs and only get 5 jump passes in their freeskates.
I don't know whether there is any thought about allowing triples in the juvenile freeskate. I haven't heard of any. My guess is that the advice to an ambitious young skater who's ready to try triples in competition would remain the same: Test up!
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