Eteri Tutberidze interview 05.05.2017

[moriel]

Russian posters:

Speaking from a cultural perspective, why does it seem like Eteri has more success with girls than boys? Are boys raised to be more rebellious/independent and girls are raised to be more obedient? (This definitely used to be the case in the US, but I think it has really changed over the past few decades. I just wonder if differing socialization of the genders plays a role in how well Eteri's methods work. I'd specifically be fascinated by comparisons/contrasts between her and Mishin, considering Mishin's legacy of success with very headstrong-seeming male skaters.)

Well, from my experience, there is some difference indeed.
Some of it comes from WW2 - during the war, many men died, so USSR ended up with a huge gender imbalance. So men were spoiled, and thus boys were spoiled too, because they would see their mothers spoil their fathers. Because well, since there were noticeable less adult males than females, you either spoil the guy or he finds someone who will spoil him better.
This tendency remained, specially due to bad habits such as drinking. Many men die young, and many other are just not really good prizes.
This picture explains it all: http://languagesoftheworld.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Russia-Sex-Ratio-Map.jpg
Russia has a male to female ration (for ages 15 to 64) of 0.92. Out of every 25 women, 2 will not be able to find a partner.
For comparison, in USA, this ratio is 1.07.

So men are a sort of a valuable commodity. And this, then, applies to boys also.
This is why its pretty common to see russian women to marry some really crappy guys "to have a pair of pants at home". Women who work hard all their lives while their husbands are unemployed half of the time and just spend their time drinking and hanging out with friends. To stick to a totally failed marriage because chances are she wont find a better one. The kids look and learn.

 

[moriel]

A "boss" pays you. A "coach" you pay. At least that's how it works in the USA.

In russia, you dont pay, the state pays the coaches to educate those children.
But i dunno... I myself believe that it is not the job of teachers and coaches to educate a child. Thats the job for the parents. Same as for moral support - the main responsible for this are parents also.

 

[andromache]

Well, from my experience, there is some difference indeed.
Some of it comes from WW2 - during the war, many men died, so USSR ended up with a huge gender imbalance. So men were spoiled, and thus boys were spoiled too, because they would see their mothers spoil their fathers. Because well, since there were noticeable less adult males than females, you either spoil the guy or he finds someone who will spoil him better.
This tendency remained, specially due to bad habits such as drinking. Many men die young, and many other are just not really good prizes.
This picture explains it all: http://languagesoftheworld.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Russia-Sex-Ratio-Map.jpg
Russia has a male to female ration (for ages 15 to 64) of 0.92. For comparison, in USA, this ratio is 1.04.

So men are a sort of a valuable commodity. And this, then, applies to boys also.
This is why its pretty common to see russian women to marry some really crappy guys "to have a pair of pants at home". Women who work hard all their lives while their husbands are unemployed half of the time and just spend their time drinking and hanging out with friends. To stick to a totally failed marriage because chances are she wont find a better one. The kids look and learn.

This is actually really interesting and 100% makes sense. Thank you! It sounds like a self-perpetuating cycle - as more young boys/men get spoiled, they will acquire bad habits as an adult, which makes them more likely to die young, and so the cycle continues.

 

[vorravorra]

At what points did you get this impression? Genuinely curious. I understand that her discussions about the number of pupils she's had who never speak to her again can come off that way - but, IMO, it is very immature and unprofessional to begin flat-out ignoring the other professionals in your field once you stop working with them personally. That's how it works in an adult job, at least.

That said, there does seem to be an inconsistencies between how she views the role of parents and whether or not a teenage athlete should be treated like an adult or a child, but I suspect that part of the problem is the lack of nuance in the English translation.

I get the impression (again, based on a flawed translation) that she wants the skaters to behave as professional adults at the rink, but then be supported/treated more like children by their families at home.

It makes perfect sense, really, but it's got to be tough for any individual skater who is not yet an adult to understand and maintain entirely different expectations for how the adults in their life treat them. Parents treat you like a child, coach treats you like an adult - again, makes perfect sense, but difficult for a teenager to behave accordingly in all situations, especially when you're spending as much or more time with the coach than with the parents. It's partially why we don't allow teenagers to work full-time adult jobs . They don't have the maturity and would be terrible at interacting with a boss. Many struggle to make the transition to being treated like adults in college.

Being treated like adults at home may assist in making them more mature at the rink and provide some consistency for them, but Eteri finds problems with this approach as well.

It's complicated.

Her re-listing complaints about the skaters who've misbehaved and slighted her does have a lot to do with it, yes, as well as the tone she does it in. And I never got the impression she looks inside herself properly to figure out what she did wrong and what she could do differently (apart from starting with a 5 year old boy). If people keep walking out slamming the door behind them it can't always be their problem.

As for her contradictory attitude to the role of the parents, essentially she wants them to pick up the slack in the psychology area where she isn't competent - emotional support, motivation, overcoming fears about quads etc., i.e. deliver her a child that is ready to go and do as he or she is told during practices, but not in any way interfere or have their own opinion on the training process.

I find it odd that Eteri talks about Adian as if all his problems were psychological and behavioural when in fact he had a very real back injury. And she still believes that boys should just stop being scaredy-cats and do quads already - and makes fun of them when they don't - in spite of where it got Adian. This is a bit worrying. Pretty much calling Moris a failure publicly while he still trains with her - he must be overjoyed to hear that. She seems not to get the meaning of the world "tact", sigh.

 

[vorravorra]

This is actually really interesting and 100% makes sense. Thank you! It sounds like a self-perpetuating cycle - as more young boys/men get spoiled, they will acquire bad habits as an adult, which makes them more likely to die young, and so the cycle continues.

The situation with the bad habits and early deaths is improving so that should probably correct itself slowly. And it has always been a social stratum kind of thing to a large extent - there is a big differential in terms of male life expectancy by the education level, for example.

 

[[email protected]]

This is actually really interesting and 100% makes sense. Thank you! It sounds like a self-perpetuating cycle - as more young boys/men get spoiled, they will acquire bad habits as an adult, which makes them more likely to die young, and so the cycle continues.

I would not generalize. I think each case is different. What I would agree with is that the Asians in general have more discipline. But there are/were big time male athletes - Russians who had to train a lot to get to the top. Take Viktor Saneev - a triple jumper the only 3 times Olympic champion in history. He was injured for many years jumping through a sharp pain.

 

[silverfoxes]

I find it odd that Eteri talks about Adian as if all his problems were psychological and behavioural when in fact he had a very real back injury. And she still believes that boys should just stop being scaredy-cats and do quads already - and makes fun of them when they don't - in spite of where it got Adian. This is a bit worrying. Pretty much calling Moris a failure publicly while he still trains with her - he must be overjoyed to hear that. She seems not to get the meaning of the world "tact", sigh.

This part about Adian was pretty unclear from Google Translate...can someone explain what she meant exactly? It sounds like she knew he was in pain and still wanted him to skate, or did she really think it was all in his head? Either way, everyone knows he hasn't been able to compete since then, so I would hope she feels some regret about ruining his career. She's the tough coach and that's her style, take it or leave it, fine for those who can cope with it...but I still think she should admit some responsibility for what happened to him, at least.

- I have now a picture before my eyes - an arbitrary Pitkeeva at the Russian Championship 2015 season / 16 in Yekaterinburg. He was very badly falls to quadruple, tears rolled, it hurt, and you meet him at the rim sharp phrase: "Once released - be patient."
- Yes. Time left - we must ride.
- But maybe he wanted at that moment other words? The same compassion?
- By the start he had walked in a state that for such rental led. The training process has already been some provocation.

 

[linkintank]

The whole Adian being spoiled is a big fat lie. Adian has some type of attention deficit disorder. He mentioned in interviews how he sucked at school and it wasn't really his thing. He wasn't very focused and that doesn't mean he's being a spoiled rebellious kid. In Russia those type of disorders are not medicated or treated as they would be in the West. I feel like he's misunderstood and he truly is injured right now and maybe it was self induced but there is something more to this than what Eteri is saying.

Eteri has a good factory but there is something to how her crew treat their pupils that make them all depart in the same fashion.

 

[ssffww]

In russia, you dont pay, the state pays the coaches to educate those children.
But i dunno... I myself believe that it is not the job of teachers and coaches to educate a child. Thats the job for the parents. Same as for moral support - the main responsible for this are parents also.

If a teacher's job is not to educate, then what is it?

 

[mrrice]

A general impression from all of Eteri's interviews: psychology - really not her thing. Which is not the best trait in a coach.


I think that's part of the problem. They are not (Voronov excepted). She seems to have trouble with the right kind of psychological distance from them as an adult vs. children. She either tries to pull them up to her level or brings herself down to theirs where she begins to sound like a touchy overly sensitive teenager who takes everything personally and has trouble with introspection and putting things in perspective.

I agree and I can say from experience that, in some ways she's correct. She HAS to prepare these students, no matter what age they are, to compete in an adult field once they become Seniors. They will be exposed to the life an adult whether they like it or not. I was exposed to several temptations and if I hadn't been prepared, I could have gone off track as some of my fellow performers did. Ashley Wagner is in her mid 20's and her life is in a completely different space than that of Karen Chen. Yet, they compete in the same arena's.

Skating is strange in that way. IMO, Eteri needs to have a backbone and make sure these students know that, as special as they may seem, the rest of the world will not put up with their behavior and the sooner they learn, the better. Look at Tori Spelling or Charlie Sheen. Tori and her out of control spending and Charlie with substance abuse. My Father was VERY strict and so was my Ballet Teacher. I always heard their voices in my head when temptation came calling. I'm sure I was considered a geek but, I stayed out of trouble during training and when I was working, I made it my job to be on time and never have people waiting for me. They may not realize it right now, but I think Eteri is giving them a valuable dose reality.

 

[gmyers]

She obviously doesn't believe Adian is injured just that he wasn't "getting the love" in skating and quit. There's no sensitivity to any injury. It doesn't exist to her!

I think it's fine she doesn't want to be "rink parent" and just be coach.

 

[andromache]

If a teacher's job is not to educate, then what is it?

I'm assuming that "educate" has different nuances in different languages....in English, "educate" means just about any type of teaching and depends highly on context. There may be a Russian word that most easily translates to "educate" that means something about preparation for life, or teaching manners/morality/work ethic, etc.

I'm just speculating, really.

 

[ejnsofi]

From what I understood Eteri said she invites parents to ice rink so they can watch and appreciate their children hard work because very often they expect quick results. And if I understood well there was some conflict in Adien's family (his father threatened him to start getting results or quit) but it isn't her job to interfere with her students' private lives. When he got injured in training he came back do lock room, threw away his skates and wanted to quit but coaches asked him to stay

Also I think Moris is well aware of Eteri's harsh words. He said in interview that she is very demanding coach and not everybody can stand it

And yeah... cultural factor is important. In Russia sons are much more "protected" by mothers than in the West (look at Voronov's mum)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

If there are too many women for the men in Russia can we send them to America :yes:

I think I'd love to see the named athletes respond to this article.

It's been my experience that American women are prone to hanging on to losers rather frequently too :curse:

 

[ssffww]

I'm assuming that "educate" has different nuances in different languages....in English, "educate" means just about any type of teaching and depends highly on context. There may be a Russian word that most easily translates to "educate" that means something about preparation for life, or teaching manners/morality/work ethic, etc.

I'm just speculating, really.

That's what I figure, too. I'm hoping the original poster will edify us. The debate between the roll of parent and teacher exists in the USA as well. Personally, I think it takes a village, and can't be so easily segmented as Eteri would like it to be. My son is grown now, but when he was still in school, his teachers/coaches and I worked together very closely as a team.

 

[irriya]

Personally, I will much more appreciate coach who is able to lead students to good direction and help them go through difficult time, not simply blaming students not mature enough. Feels to me that Evgenia and Alina are enjoy skating now because they are successful and they can jump. And one day if they fall unfortunately, the coach will just blame them and abandon them right away. Sorry, just my personal feeling.

 

[ssffww]

I'm assuming that "educate" has different nuances in different languages....in English, "educate" means just about any type of teaching and depends highly on context. There may be a Russian word that most easily translates to "educate" that means something about preparation for life, or teaching manners/morality/work ethic, etc.

I'm just speculating, really.

Just played with a couple of online translation tools and you're right. I translated "educate" into Russian and then used a different site to translate the word I was given (воспитывать) and it means "to bring up." So, I agree with the original poster that it's a parent's job to bring up the child, not a teachers. A teacher only has them for a short while. A parent for life.

 

[vorravorra]

I agree and I can say from experience that, in some ways she's correct. She HAS to prepare these students, no matter what age they are, to compete in an adult field once they become Seniors. They will be exposed to the life an adult whether they like it or not. I was exposed to several temptations and if I hadn't been prepared, I could have gone off track as some of my fellow performers did. Ashley Wagner is in her mid 20's and her life is in a completely different space than that of Karen Chen. Yet, they compete in the same arena's.

Skating is strange in that way. IMO, Eteri needs to have a backbone and make sure these students know that, as special as they may seem, the rest of the world will not put up with their behavior and the sooner they learn, the better. Look at Tori Spelling or Charlie Sheen. Tori and her out of control spending and Charlie with substance abuse. My Father was VERY strict and so was my Ballet Teacher. I always heard their voices in my head when temptation came calling. I'm sure I was considered a geek but, I stayed out of trouble during training and when I was working, I made it my job to be on time and never have people waiting for me. They may not realize it right now, but I think Eteri is giving them a valuable dose reality.

Eteri essentially says she has no idea how to handle students when they don't do exactly what she wants them to do and that such situations end up in them walking out without saying goodbye. How does that equate to having a backbone? She keeps complaining about the parents slacking on their job of disciplining and motivating students every step of the way I have to say, for someone who works with children professionally to come out and say they have no idea how to handle children and particularly teens as they exist in reality and expect perfect little robots that you can just punch commands into is… odd. If she can't make them follow commands, she seems to be genuinely at a loss as to what to do. Maybe coaches are different in principle, but any teacher with the kinds of complaints that come from Eteri would be classified as incompetent. Good teachers know how to handle their students without constantly running to the parents, whether by becoming their best friend, or being strict to the point of the students being slightly afraid of them, but they manage and students both behave themselves and learn. And they don't even get the chance to hand-pick the most talented and hardworking, they have to work with the material they are given. Of course understanding what makes kids and people in general tick is kind of a baseline requirement for being a good teacher - to put it more bluntly, you have to be a bit of a manipulator and know which buttons to push. Different kids respond to different kinds and combinations of the stick and the carrot. But then teachers are not judged a success if they produce a select few brilliant students and let everyone else fall through the cracks, so there is that difference.

 

[russianfan]

i have read the whole interview, and i have to say i agree with her in pretty much everything...
and guys, you've got many things wrong, or at least not completely how she meant it, so don't speculate too much pls
its just weird to read how some people trying to demonize her

 

[Manitou]

I think the today's generation has become weaker than was in the past. I'm a teacher in a high school for many years. This is my experience.

I would say: entitled. And too easily given those things they feel they are entitled for.
Through my life I've had an experience with different cultures and here in the US I am really annoyed by all those "good jobs", "good hustles" and trophies simply for participation. Schools are the same. The entire "no child left behind" policy is basically levelling to the weakest.
I really miss the old Prussian/Eastern way of education based on authority, strong moral codes, high academic standards and targeting based on potential abilities.
When I read this Eteri interview it exactly feels like a conflict between the modern entitlement culture and the old traditional ways.
The West is dying...