Jason Brown

[sabinfire]

Mrs. P:

Jason Brown fluff piece - 2015 U.S. Nationals (1080p HD)

 

[Mrs. P]

Mrs. P:

Jason Brown fluff piece - 2015 U.S. Nationals (1080p HD)

Wow, thank you sabinfire for the fast response! How do you have time to do all this stuff?

 

[knghcm]

Not sure if this has been posed or not, but here's a nice post-Olympic piece of Chris Howarth (British Eurosport commentator) saying nice things about Jason Brown (cached version due to original no longer accessible). From listening to him during Jason's program, it is no secret that the British commentators adore him. There seems to be a screencap an interview with Chris (possibly about Jason or the Sochi Olympics in general), but I can't seem to find that video.

For most of America, the top two questions raised about Team USA’s performance at the Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia were, 1) What happened to our hockey team? and 2) How come our speed skaters didn’t win any medals?

But in the corner of the world that is Lake County, Illinois, the focus and the questions were all about 19-year-old figure skater Jason Brown of Highland Park, who finished ninth in the men’s competition and was part of Team USA’s third-place finish in the new, team figure-skating event.

And what everybody in this corner wants to know is this: Can Jason get better? Can he carry the U.S. flag into international figure-skating competitions and come home with a medal around his neck? And, is there figure-skating life for Jason after finishing second in January in the U.S. National Championships and competing in the Winter Games?

Those aren’t trick questions, but the answers are tricky for his new fans, who basically follow the sport of figure skating only in Olympic years, and don’t know if Jason Brown’s going to be around for us to wrap our arms around when the 2018 Games are held in Pyeongchang, South Korea.

There’s also the matter of the new scoring system in figure skating. Fans grew up with the 5.8s and 5.9s of scoring, and nobody outside of a coach’s box or judge’s booth has mastered the new scoring system, so it’s difficult to get a read on anything regarding the sport.

There is, however, someone in our midst who knows the answers to those questions. He knows what it’s like to compete as a figure skater in the Olympics (for England in 1980), currently is a figure-skating instructor at the Glacier Ice Rink in Vernon Hills, and who is held in such high regard as an expert in the sport that he did commentary from Sochi on the figure-skating competition at the Winter Games.

Long story short: When Christopher Howarth talks about figure skating, people listen.

And when Christopher talks about the future of Jason Brown, he talks in the most glowing of terms.

The bottom line from someone who knows: “He’s got the pedigree, the drive, and the skills. If he can stay injury-free, he could be the man in four years.”

Howarth has watched Brown develop as a skater and believes that the best is yet to come.

Now that the Olympics are over, Howarth is back coaching figure skaters at Glacier, and he talked recently about where our Lake County is going and just how excited we should be about his prospects.

Answer: VERY excited.

“At the moment, Jason doesn’t have a quadruple (four complete spins while in the air) jump, and all the big guns obviously are doing one or two quads,” Howart said. “What Jason does have that is an amazing asset for him is his amazing personality and his feel for the music. He has an incredible fans base and the people relate to him.”

Howarth noted that it look Brown three years to master the triple axle (the hardest of the three-revolution jumps). “In a funny way, that was a blessing because while he was learning that, he was working on the other elements of his form.

“Now, with the way the judging system has gone, it will be vitel for him to have really good skating skills, which he has.”

He also has charisma, as Howarth noted after watching him win the free-skate portion of the U.S. Nationals in Boston, which got him a second-place overall finish there and sent him to the Olympics.

“He does have that,” Howarth said. “He can literally hold a packed stadium. I was in Boston for the National Championships and he literally brought the house down.”

And, yes, the fans matter when it comes to the judging, especially because there’s now a scoring category for performance,

“It does matter. Judges are only human,” he said. “When the crowd is going nuts, it’s very difficult for a juding panel not to go with them. If the crowd is going nuts, it means your performance, execution and choreography are working, so it does matter.”

And the performance aspect is the part where Brown can beat every skater in the world.

“The choreography, the performance was very, very good,” Howarth said. “It was a program that built toward the end. Once he had the crowd on his side, they stayed with him the rest of the program. It really worked for him at the National Championships, and it worked in part for him in Suchi.”

Howarth noted that the problem with the crowd in Sochi was that it was very pro-home team, and when the Russian’s top medal hopeful got injured and withdrew, the air was sucked out of the stadium and it made it difficult for skaters to inspire the fans who pretty much were sitting on their hands.

All that said, there’s still the matter of a quad jump. Howarth said Brown can do it, but not on a consistent basis.

One of the problems of figure skating is that there are very few competitions, and the ones that are held are huge. There are no neighborhood events on Saturday mornings in which a skater can practice while still getting a score from judges and not have to worry about consequences if the quad jump leads to a fall.

Howarth also is impressed that Brown has stayed with Kori Ade has is coach, noting that the two of them have grown together through years. “That’s unheard of,” Howarth said of sticking with one coach, and adding that it’s an illustration that Brown is well-grounded and his eyes on the prize rather than being big-headed and trying to hire a coach that’s the flavor of the month.

As for the rest of the story of figure skating in the U.S., Howarth said that the women’s division is going to explode with talent, but conceded that there has been a bit of a hole among the men skaters that Jason Brown will be filling.

“I think you’re going to see a massive surge in the success of American figure skating,” he said.

And as a coach of talented intermediate and junior division skaters right now, Christopher Howarth has his pulse on the sport.

And led by Jason Brown, Team USA has a strong heart.

 

[TMC]

Mrs. P:

Jason Brown fluff piece - 2015 U.S. Nationals (1080p HD)

Thank you SO much for this - I trawled the net for a half hour last night looking for this

You are a wonderful human being sabinfire

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Mrs. P:

Jason Brown fluff piece - 2015 U.S. Nationals (1080p HD)

How can people not appreciate him? You don't have to like his style, but he has a good head on his shoulders, he's positive without being naive, and he stays modest even with all the success he had. I'm very happy he said he's ready for the next 8 years, because the more Jason the better!

Also: how gorgeous is Kori? And then look at Rohene at the beginning looking absolutely fab. That's one stylish team there.

TMC, I get the thought of not wanting Jason to medal at worlds because of the possible hate he could get. But OTOH, maybe it would show some skaters that their strategy is wrong. I appreciate the quad. Yes, figure skating is a sport, difficulty needs to be rewarded and I love the fact that we have some pretty strong quad jumpers around these days. But there needs to be a balance - a dozen guys going for one or multiple quad and splatting is no balance. I don't want to see all the guys dropping the quad (but that won't happen with Yuzu, Javi and Patty around anyway), but I wished more people would be taking Jason's approach.
He must be sick and tired of the topic though (like after the SP at nats, when the top 3 SP guys were getting pretty much nothing but quad questions - annoying, but their reactions were precious!).

 

[TMC]

TMC, I get the thought of not wanting Jason to medal at worlds because of the possible hate he could get. But OTOH, maybe it would show some skaters that their strategy is wrong. I appreciate the quad. Yes, figure skating is a sport, difficulty needs to be rewarded and I love the fact that we have some pretty strong quad jumpers around these days. But there needs to be a balance - a dozen guys going for one or multiple quad and splatting is no balance. I don't want to see all the guys dropping the quad (but that won't happen with Yuzu, Javi and Patty around anyway), but I wished more people would be taking Jason's approach.
He must be sick and tired of the topic though (like after the SP at nats, when the top 3 SP guys were getting pretty much nothing but quad questions - annoying, but their reactions were precious!).

You're absolutely right. That would be the ideal outcome. It's just the Nats outcome that makes me worry...

I feel that the hate comes from his getting pretty good PCS scores without attempting the quad. Of course there's nothing in the PCS criteria that says a quad should get more and no quad should get less. The only applicable category really is Performance, where it's obvious that a successful quad increases the value of the performance. But if you are able make up for the lack of a quad by performing your a$$ off, then that should be enough. There seem to be two groups: those who feel that PCS should increase for quads and quadless skaters should have a PCS glass ceiling (which I don't agree with but can totally understand), and those who don't really mind as long as the performance as a whole is adequate. So if he does well and gets the same or bigger PCS as those attempting quads - that is what I feel will be resented.

I hate that there's a perception that the more quads the better, and I get the feeling that the men are being told that they're not "manly" or "athletic" unless they cram as many quads as they can in a program, plus a few that they can't. I love a beautiful quad the same way I love a good 'tano/Rippon jump . But when the Russian juniors started doing 'tanos multiple times in a program, it took away the wow-factor. Two quads in one program -> instead of looking forward to the wow-moment, I cringe at every jump in case it goes wrong. That's stressful to me! .

3 quads over one event is fine if the skill & will are there, on the other hand I can't remember when I last saw a clean 2-quad long...

One quad per program should be ideal for a steady jumper, and one quad in either program for one whose jumping isn't as strong. I get the feeling that most men would do better if they tried that instead 3 quads overall. I do believe this approach would bring balance and better programs, because the less consistent jumpers would have to work on their PCS scores a bit more. So basically it's the strategy that Josh had at Nats, and it produced two wonderful programs.

I would love to see a season where 2 overall was a limit; that would prove my theory either right or wrong! But this is just my fantasy

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I hate that there's a perception that the more quads the better, and I get the feeling that the men are being told that they're not "manly" or "athletic" unless they cram as many quads as they can in a program, plus a few that they can't. I love a beautiful quad the same way I love a good 'tano/Rippon jump . But when the Russian juniors started doing 'tanos multiple times in a program, it took away the wow-factor. Two quads in one program -> instead of looking forward to the wow-moment, I cringe at every jump in case it goes wrong. That's stressful to me!

Big :thumbsup: to that whole post, but this part specifically. I like the thrill that comes with the quads and the question of "will he land that monster today or not?", but at this point, it's turning over to "not going to land it anyway, why should I be excited?" for a big part of the bunch. I get why Hanyu and Fernandez go for their quads, and especially with Fernandez taking out some transitions would be the even better approach. But for quite a few other man, this isn't working.
But people are complaining when someone wins/medals with falls, and they'll complain when someone wins with clean but quadless programs. Additionally, the whole concept of "manly" skating is lost on my anyway

I'm also very grateful for Jason for being the only reliable one in my group of beloved dorks and Disney princes. I'm such a masochist when it comes to figure skating! Just look at them: Javier Fernandez (just yesterday...), Han Yan, Takahiko Kozuka (I want to cry tipping this), previously to his retirement Daisuke Takahashi, even Yuzuru Hanyu can't stop giving me headaches once in a while (mostly injury related, but my nerves don't care about that). My favorite Russian is Artur Gachinski. And the newest addition to the bunch: Joshua Farris. Between all of them, how am I supposed to not get a heart attack during worlds?! Thanks so much Jason for being the only that won't make me strangle my plush Yoshi out of anxiety during your skate! If it wouldn't be for him, I'd question my sanity

 

[Mrs. P]

Different discipline, but Liza T's fantastic FS today I think affirmed how good technique and execution matters. She beat two ladies who had 3-3 and 3-1L-3 combos namely through GOE. She actually had nearly 2 points less BV than Elena.

I am aware this is an apples to oranges situation because Liza's BV deficit is not as great as Jason's and she still had a 3-3, albeit a less difficult one. Still it's worth noting for the record.

But here's a more apt comparision. Maxim Kovtun's BV, assuming he hits at minimum level 3 step/level 4 spins is 82.17 (82.77 if he gets level 4 step). Jason's BV is 75.63 (76.23 with level 4 step).

The difference in BV is 6.54 points.

Yuzuru Hanyu's max BV with level 3 step/level 4 spins is 90.02 (or 90.62 if he gets level 4 step). The difference in BV is 14.99.

Considering Jason's Nationals +GOE was 15.72, he's not going to beat Hanyu with a clean skate cause 1.) Hanyu has a huge BV advantage and 2.) He gets enough +GOE to make up for errors. Even if he pops his quads, he's still golden if he hits everything else (see TEB 2013).

Kovtun is a whole other matter. Him getting that BV depends on him hitting two quads at the beginning. If he doesn't hit, URs, pops the jumps, as the case was a Euros, he will lose that BV advantage pretty easily. In addition, he just doesn't get great +GOE. Even at Trophee Eric Bompard, where he won with a solid FS, his GOE was +5.5 points. That's good GOE. But for a reference point, Jason got 4.96 in +GOE at Rostelecom Cup and that was with -GOE in two major elements.

And looking at the second half of their programs, that is where things get kind of interesting. Kovtun's second half BV is 33.66, if you base it on what he did at TEB where he skated well, if you base it on his flyby layout at Euros (which was driven by the errors in the beginning of the FS, I think), it's 38.15. Jason's second half BV is 44.33.

To sum it up:
Kovtun's strategy is hitting high BV elements at the beginning of the program: 4S, 4T, 3A-3T. Jason's strategy is dependent on high execution of a backloaded quadless program. They have yet to face each other in the same competition, so we haven't had a chance to see which strategy will be successful. Worlds will be interesting as that will be their first time going head-to-head since JGPF 2012! They are currently 1-1 in face-to-face matchups. Oddly they have only faced each other at JGPF. Jason won in 2011, Maxim won in 2012.

 

[HanDomi]

...

Well quads are working for you only if you have 1) quality on them 2) quality on everything else. It's not a problem for me that Jason without quad can beat many skaters with quads, because he have a lot qualities in many elements.
Hanyu have so much difficult jumps in his program, that even if he have problem with his quad salchow he still has enough elements to outscore everyone

 

[Mrs. P]

Well quads are working for you only if you 1) quality on them 2) quality on everything else. It's not a problem for me that Jason without quad can beat some kstaers with quads, because he have a lot qualities in many elements.
Hanyu have so much difficult jumps in his program, that even if he have problem with his quad salchow he still has enough elements to outscore everyone

Yes, hence my reference to TEB 2013 when he popped one quad and fell on the other. Hanyu is impressive technically for sure. :thumbsup:

 

[Mrs. P]

So I was curious, namely because of people's statements around the realm of "Jason will not do place well at Worlds cause he doesn't have a single quad and everyone else has one or even two!"

I get the logic. The potential layouts of these men would give them a huge advantage.

However, if you actually look at what the other guys are getting in BV, it shows a completely different picture:

If you look at the guys' best BV actually obtained for this season (looking at GP/JGP events and Euros). Here's the top 10:

Hanyu 88.04
Mura 81.02
Nguyen 80.83
Kovtun 80.46
Fernandez 79.81
Uno 79.38
Murakami 78.26
Brown 75.30
Voronov 75.22
Samohin 74.09

The gap between Jason and Mura, who is No. 2 on the BV list is 5.72 points. That's really not a lot of points. Let's consider the fact that at Nationals, Jason had an 8 point lead on Adam Rippon and he only won by 2 points.

And also this is pure BV before +/- GOE is taken into account. The gap could be smaller or completely eliminated -/+ GOE.

Looking at Median numbers:
Hanyu 81.66
Nguyen 78.55
Murakami 78.26
Kovtun 76.95
Fernandez 76.86
Uno 75.71
Mura 74.26
Samohin 72.67
Brown 72.35

The median is important cause it shows a more nuanced view -- what's sort of the middle-of-the-road BV earned. And yes, Jason is down the list, but not by very much., by about 6.2 points from Nguyen.

If I have more time I'll measure like -- ultimate layouts -- i.e. if these skaters all go clean in BV. Jason's won't change much, maybe .5 higher. But the other guys will see a sizable change, I think.

I'd be more concerned if perhaps everyone had 10-15 BV advantages. But they don't. The only one who really does is Yuzuru.

Of course, it only takes ONE really good program to defy all this stats, I realize that. And that's probably what they're looking at. Jason's BV won't change much from Rostelecom (He'd get .6 extra for a StSq4 and .33 for the 2A in the second half), but the other guys can really boost their BV if they hit the quads and don't miss other stuff, i.e. Denis Ten, who BV is quite low currently.

But from Jason's perspective, I can see why they think it's not worth the gamble to force the quad.

 

[sabinfire]

Wow, thank you sabinfire for the fast response! How do you have time to do all this stuff?

Very little sleep during major skating events, a good setup already in place for recording and editing videos, good file organization, and the growing experience with video editing/archiving is always making me more efficient at this.

 

[katmari]

Thanks so much for the video sabinfire!

 

[TMC]

Very little sleep during major skating events, a good setup already in place for recording and editing videos, good file organization, and the growing experience with video editing/archiving is always making me more efficient at this.

I feel an intense need to send you a fruit basket right now

I hope you know how happy you have made many, many people!

 

[sabinfire]

Thank you!

 

[TMC]

Thank you!

I was not going to be one to ask because you've done so much already.....but were you thinking of uploading the gala?

I love the interviews and such stuff which I'm pretty sure IN won't have.

I'll send you some delicious Finnish chocolate as a thank you! I've done that before for a favour someone did here for me, and I can't even remember what it was

 

[alabhaois]

Thanks so much for the video sabinfire!

I second that!! Great job!!

 

[knghcm]

Here's Jason gala program courtesy of Sabinfire.

 

[knghcm]

Not sure if this has been posed or not, but here's a nice post-Olympic piece of Chris Howarth (British Eurosport commentator) saying nice things about Jason Brown (cached version due to original no longer accessible). From listening to him during Jason's program, it is no secret that the British commentators adore him. There seems to be a screencap an interview with Chris (possibly about Jason or the Sochi Olympics in general), but I can't seem to find that video.


"Skating guru thinks Jason Brown is just a quad jump away from being a MAJOR figure in his sport" by Jeff B
Bonato
.
excerpt

Not sure if this is what Nicky Slater meant, but I think Jason was wishing Chris Howarth well when he was sick during the 2013 Junior World Champion. If that was so it was really sweet of Jason. Video link here.

 

[TMC]

Not sure if this is what Nicky Slater meant, but I think Jason was wishing Chris Howarth well when he was sick during the 2013 Junior World Champion. If that was so it was really sweet of Jason. Video link here.

I remember that video! I think that that's exactly what he meant. How sweet is he? It's incredible