Making a World Record: Hanyu's Long Program

[Fresca]

Thank you for this amazing and educational video. It is very well done. You can tell it was a time consuming labor of love. Regardless of whatever anyone says about it, it's already been seen and shared many times by fans, FS media, skaters and coaches so you can be sure it is appreciated. :agree2:

This is great because now I can pair what he is doing with his skates with the upper body movements I can interpret in terms of dance- for example: arms in jazz 1st (I love how he does all his jumps with arms in jazz 1st complete with the beautiful alignment so it looks like a jazz pencil turn in the air), torso contraction, arms in ballet 2nd, torso release, shoulder roll, torso spiral, arms in ballet 4th...

Yeah, many jumps from top skaters don't have flow with bad body alignments, they even land on the inside edge or almost catch their blade always get over +1 GOE.

Even if the judges don't reward skaters with beautiful alignment in their jumps like Yuzu and Boyang appropriately relative to skaters with bad alignment, they will be rewarded by their bodies in the long run. Good alignment means they have better chances of staying injury free (as long as they don't overtrain!!!) unlike skaters with bad alignment. I have seen enough dancers get serious injuries from landing jumps incorrectly to know this.

 

[tennisguy]

The definition of spiral has changed depending on the discipline or the element being performed. When the ladies had a spiral sequence as a require element than the Ina Bauer and spread eagle didn't count as a spiral position - foot had to be above the hip. But in pairs, when that discipline had a spiral element the spread eagle or Ina Bauer would have counted as a spiral position and at least one partner had to be in a spiral position throughout the sequence.

 

[gkelly]

The definition of spiral has changed depending on the discipline or the element being performed. When the ladies had a spiral sequence as a require element than the Ina Bauer and spread eagle didn't count as a spiral position - foot had to be above the hip. But in pairs, when that discipline had a spiral element the spread eagle or Ina Bauer would have counted as a spiral position and at least one partner had to be in a spiral position throughout the sequence.

Hm. From the same 2008 USFS rulebook, under Pairs:

Spiral step sequence: Consists primarily of spirals, commencing at the end of the ic surface, progressing in bold curves... At least two spiral positions by each partner must be executed. The minimum hold to be counted as a spiral position is three seconds. The number of spirals, the length of hold of position (minimum 3 seconds) and the edges used must be even between both partners to be considered as "balanced." If one partner executes no spiral at all, the spiral sequence will receive no level and consequently no value. ...Connecting steps (including spread eagles and two-footed movements with one leg extended and the other bent "Ina Bauer"), turns and small jumps are permitted at any point in the sequence, but only by one partner at a time. At least one of the partners must always be in a spiral position, that is, with the free leg higher than the hip level; variations of position are permitted...

Emphasis added.

There are no level features listed in the rulebook.

I do still have a PDF of the features for 2009-2010, ISU Communication 1557. Pair spiral sequence:

Spirals of both partners forward and backward, inside and outside mandatory for Levels 3-4
1) A difficult variation of both partners' positions at the same time
2) A difficult variation on a different (for each partner) foot executed by both at the same time
3) Change of edge by both partners in a spiral
4) Unsupported change of free leg pos. or direction by both in spiral (3 sec. before and after the change)
5) Free leg in a total split position by one or both partners, one or both arms hold possible
6) Difficult variation of pos. by one partner (second partner in spread-eagle/shoot-the-duck/similar pos.)
7) Holding spiral position for 6 or more seconds without changes in position/variation

I see nothing here to support the interpretation that spread eagles, Ina Bauers, or shoot-the-duck (or hydroblading) positions would be considered "spirals." They were allowed in the sequence and they could contribute to feature 6) as a difficult non-spiral position by one partner while the other was in a difficult spiral position. If they were considered spirals, then there would be no distinction between features 1-2) and 6).

 

[Mathman]

IIRC the 3 turn was the top half of a heart in fancy figures: <3

The Ina Bauer is the move that I just don't get at all. It looks like the skater's blades are sideways while somehow she is gliding along anyway.

 

[gkelly]

IIRC the 3 turn was the top half of a heart in fancy figures: <3

Yes. But it's much more basic than that. Three turns are everywhere in skating.

The Ina Bauer is the move that I just don't get at all. It looks like the skater's blades are sideways while somehow she is gliding along anyway.

Same as with a spread eagle, just offset. The skater has to have a lot of turnout so that one blade can travel forward and one backward along parallel curves (or the same curve in a spread eagle). The blades can't go sideways relative the direction of travel -- that produces stopping, not gliding. But the skater is facing sideways to the direction of travel because the feet are each pointing 90 degrees from where her front is pointing . . . and 180 degrees from each other.

 

[Vanshilar]

Or the 3 turn. The first time I heard it I was very confused as well. Figure skating has some weird terms in English.

I used to call them (without realizing it) 3-foot turns, since they were the natural progression up from 2-foot turns.

3-foot turns were, naturally, very difficult for students to do.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Or the 3 turn. The first time I heard it I was very confused as well. Figure skating has some weird terms in English.

3 turns make sense after looking at the pattern on the ice... same goes for a loop and a bracket. A counter makes sense because it goes counter to the entry curve.

But I'll never get the naming of Mohawks, Choctaws, Rockers, and Twizzles.

 

[Mathman]

3 turns make sense after looking at the pattern on the ice... same goes for a loop and a bracket. A counter makes sense because it goes counter to the entry curve.

But I'll never get the naming of Mohawks, Choctaws, Rockers, and Twizzles.

About Mohawks and Chocktaws, I have read that this goes back to a century ago when there was a craze in England for things related to American Indians. When someone demonstrated various figure skating moves, people thought that they resembled the Native American dances that were on exhibition at the time. Something like that.

 

[Vanshilar]

But I'll never get the naming of Mohawks, Choctaws, Rockers, and Twizzles.

In the same way that twizzles are continuous three-turns, I want to do continuous brackets and call them "bwizzles".

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

In the same way that twizzles are continuous three-turns, I want to do continuous brackets and call them "bwizzles".

Oooo, I do like the thought of bwizzles/brizzles! Like Mao Asada's brizzles she used to do going into her opening 3A!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

About Mohawks and Chocktaws, I have read that this goes back to a century ago when there was a craze in England for things related to American Indians. When someone demonstrated various figure skating moves, people thought that they resembled the Native American dances that were on exhibition at the time. Something like that.

Haha, gotta love appropriation... but I suppose in a way they're complimenting first nations people by naming figure skating moves after them.

This article essentially describes what you said, but in more detail. It also explains the difference between choctaws and mohawks, such as the ones tagged in the LP video. https://www.thoughtco.com/all-about-choctaws-and-mohawks-1282269

 

[azeemoss]

i won't jump to talk about the scores nor the blogger's personal evaluation, but just to remind you that "world records" are not recognized by the ISU for several reasons and that there are tons of threads where people complain about skaters beating their favorite skaters' former records because of that misconception.

These reasons include: different panels, different judges, different base values, different elements, and even different rules, thus comparing scores from competition to competition is not recommended.

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk

 

[azeemoss]

i won't jump to talk about the scores nor the blogger's personal evaluation, but just to remind you that "world records" are not recognized by the ISU for several reasons and that there are tons of threads where people complain about skaters beating their favorite skaters' former records because of that misconception.

These reasons include: different panels, different judges, different base values, different elements, and even different rules, thus comparing scores from competition to competition is not recommended.

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk

 

[cherryncy]

So world records is still a thing

 

[azeemoss]

So world records is still a thing

I think the WR in 6.0 judging system cannot be compared with the WR in current judging system.But there will always be WR in any system.That's my point.


从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk

 

[tennisguy]

The ISU keeps track of them.

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...ncluding-personal-bestseason-best-information

 

[blueberryhill]

The ISU keeps track of them.

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...ncluding-personal-bestseason-best-information

At the very bottom of the ISU link that you have provided it states:

"The best results achieved in competitions operating under the ISU Judging System are referred to as "highest scores" and "personal bests". The ISU does not currently recognize the highest scores as "World records"."

 

[tennisguy]

At the very bottom of the ISU link that you have provided it states:

"The best results achieved in competitions operating under the ISU Judging System are referred to as "highest scores" and "personal bests". The ISU does not currently recognize the highest scores as "World records"."

A rose by any other name . . .

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

So world records is still a thing

I don't think anyone can take a figure skating score as a World Record very seriously. Maybe most consecutive wins or something like that can exist as a WR but how can anyone compare an absolute total score when the scoring system is always changing the elements performed and how they are awarded.

 

[Interspectator]

I suppose the words 'World Record' just doesn't ring true to some...which is why the ISU is so careful not to use it. But one can still use the words World Record and have their meaning understood by almost anyone in the skating world. And Sports-news outlets all over the world use it in regards to the highest scores all the time without it becoming a bone of contention. I think either way of looking at it is valid.

How does the word 'irregardless' strike you?
-Gives me the creepy-crawlies and I want to do a 60 second rant. But everyone knows what it means, and it's been in print since the 19th century. Those who try to rationalize language will sneer at the double negative but most linguists shrug and say that language is a thing that grows and changes, and is not always rational.

Though the ISU does not recognize 'World Records' for good reasons, the rest of the world recognizes them for good reasons too- of simplicity and impact when writing about or talking about sport.
You want to be punchy and have a good headline, and really tell people that it's cool and rad. -So World Record? or Highest Scores? or That time Yuzuru Hanyu was awesome and blew everyone else out of the water with a free skate that brought him from 5th to 1st and won him the World Championship, here's how he did it?
I chose the title I did cause it was short, had impact, and was understandable by all. But if I knew about the trouble the title would cause, I'd just as soon change it to Highest score instead because of the same good reasons given above. -Choose your poison.