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- Nov 29, 2013
No, that's not explanation, Base Value difference is only two points. The rest was created by judges and their unfair decisions about GOE.
2014-2015 GPF Mens Short Program 12/12
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Feb 13, 2014
I think the judges were lenient because Tatsuki 's combo did look UR, very indeed.
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I agree, Hanyu's quad was clearly underscored on GOE
It is explanation. Hanyu have 3A in 2nd half. And really levels on steps and spins are very important still, you can easly loose couple points on this
oof I re-watched Sergei and Maxim and then wrote a whole thing comparing the two then I accidentally x'd out of the page. :hopelessness:
Ok I'll try to rewrite it!
I think you can make a case that Maxim is more fluid on the ice and certainly Sergei was much slower on everything until he landed his triple loop. Also Maxim did a level 4 step sequence Sergei only did a level 2 and it was much slower... that alone is going to start giving Maxim and edge I think. Sergei's program was also kind of empty and frankly, poorly choreographed. There's no excuse for those gestures at the beginning. I'm not a big fan of Maxim's aesthetic but he was fast, and had more transitions and probably had the second best quad of the competition. I think he got -GOE on the quad toe because he had zero footwork going into it (and that was rightly marked) but it was a GREAT jump and better than Sergei's
Lastly I think the power of perception can rarely be over appreciated. Sergei skated second and right after a stunning Hanyu. Maxim was last and right after a very deflated Javi. As much as we don't want those things to affect the scores... I think they do. I'm sure the judges take notes and are more than capable of looking at six skaters side by side, but you're going to be swayed by what you just saw. I just think that's how it goes.
Side note: I sometimes enjoy refactoring PCS to compare the men and ladies just to see where everyone stacks up. I'll factor the men by .8... here's what you get:
Hanyu 35.18
Machida 34
Fernandez 32.77
Kovtun 32.06
Lipnitskaia 31.66
Tukt 31.63
Radianova 31.26
Voronov 30.86
Mura 30.70
Wagner 30.40
Pogo 30.00
Hongo 27.14
It's kind of pointless I know but still fun for me to do and kind of puts an interesting perspective on how the internationals judges might view the level of skating in each discipline.
Ok I'll try to rewrite it!
I think you can make a case that Maxim is more fluid on the ice and certainly Sergei was much slower on everything until he landed his triple loop. Also Maxim did a level 4 step sequence Sergei only did a level 2 and it was much slower... that alone is going to start giving Maxim and edge I think. Sergei's program was also kind of empty and frankly, poorly choreographed. There's no excuse for those gestures at the beginning. I'm not a big fan of Maxim's aesthetic but he was fast, and had more transitions and probably had the second best quad of the competition. I think he got -GOE on the quad toe because he had zero footwork going into it (and that was rightly marked) but it was a GREAT jump and better than Sergei's
Lastly I think the power of perception can rarely be over appreciated. Sergei skated second and right after a stunning Hanyu. Maxim was last and right after a very deflated Javi. As much as we don't want those things to affect the scores... I think they do. I'm sure the judges take notes and are more than capable of looking at six skaters side by side, but you're going to be swayed by what you just saw. I just think that's how it goes.
Side note: I sometimes enjoy refactoring PCS to compare the men and ladies just to see where everyone stacks up. I'll factor the men by .8... here's what you get:
Hanyu 35.18
Machida 34
Fernandez 32.77
Kovtun 32.06
Lipnitskaia 31.66
Tukt 31.63
Radianova 31.26
Voronov 30.86
Mura 30.70
Wagner 30.40
Pogo 30.00
Hongo 27.14
It's kind of pointless I know but still fun for me to do and kind of puts an interesting perspective on how the internationals judges might view the level of skating in each discipline.
I just watched Patrick's Elegie again.. Oh gosh, I HEART jeff. He has such feel of piano music, his choreo for Patrick and Yuzuru's SP uses perfect piano tune for each male skater catering their skating quality perfectly.And his own piano version of adios is also a master piece.I know every one is mad about inflation or whatnot... but I miss Chan.
I love the blade sound in their programs, such as yuzu's opening quiet part and patrick's step sequence
just wish yuzu can pull a clean one of this program, so that I can save it
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It didn't to me, and if the tech specialist didn't call it as UR, then there should be no additional deduction for UR. The only deduction would be for the stepout (MAYBE for the 3T being essentially done on a standstill, but so was Hanyu's 2nd half of the combo).
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Program construction and spin levels. 3 of Machida's jumps are in the first half of his program, and two of his spins are level 3. Hanyu has his 3A and 3Z-3T in the second half, and all of his spins are level 4. Hanyu's base value is over 2 points higher than Machida's, and he gets higher GOEs on his 3A and spins.
Li'Kitsu made a good point that might explain all the -3s Machida got on his combo -- the judges may have thought the 3T was underrotated (I haven't seen the replay so I don't know) and hammered him for it in GOE.
His 3T was rotated.
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- Feb 13, 2014
I have just rewatched it. Definitely UR. I can see that without slow motion. That's why I said if people say the judges were lenient on Yuzuru's TES. Actually they were lenient on Tatsuki as well. Because a > on his combo would make his score much lower.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I know. Like, Hanyu's GPF SP isn't even THAT much better than Tatsuki's SA short program IMO, even if you factor out the fall. They're both the same level of awesome.
Okay but it looked to me that he tightened so much on his 3T so he could rotate so fast which caused his fall.
THANKS, i am watching it.
That's what was the best to do in this case. It was better to go for it then not go for it
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- Jan 25, 2013
That's not how it was called though. It would be like a judge thinking a skater flutzed even if the tech specialist didn't call it and they dropped their GOE.
^When Hanyu is on he's just that good. I don't think Tatsuki has that x factor yet... even when he's on. It's all a little paint by the numbers to me. It's been well constructed, but it doesn't feel authentic. Hanyu is very in the moment. I think it makes him less reliable, but there's a certain intangible. It wasn't taught to him, it's something he just understands.
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- Jan 25, 2013
That's what was the best to do in this case. It was better to go for it then not go for it
I thought it was a ballsy attempt to go for it, when there was no saving that after the lutz landing.
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- Nov 29, 2013
Again: levels of steps and spins are evaluated only by Base Value. Yes, Machida lost something on it, but this "something" is only 2 points. If difference of final score was 2 points, I wouldn't have asked any question.
So where they took the other 4 points with similar quality of execution? Overscoring of Hanyu is the most obvious explanation.
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