2015 Mordovian Ornament Ladies SP and Free Skate

[jenaj]

If it weren't for the rare deserved win by Anna, I'd propose we just firebomb all the results from MO and pretend this farce never happened.

But why should we care, really? It was just a "B" competition. It was Russian scoring, but the right skater won and the placements are not totally out of line.

 

[mirai4life]

i heard people are giving out candies. where can i get some?

anyway, i wish these videos were longer. i want to see the kiss and cry.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I only came to this thread to see a gif of Anna Tsareva.

 

[sabinfire]

But why should we care, really? It was just a "B" competition. It was Russian scoring, but the right skater won and the placements are not totally out of line.

I should think some of us would care because these are official ISU scores, and they would count the same for SB/PB's against other ISU events, even the GP, Euros, and Worlds? These scores give a completely inaccurate and false impression of what actually occurred here. If placement and the 'right' skater winning was all that mattered, why have scores at all? May as well go back to 6.0.

How can we discuss the results if the points are of no significance? Does that mean achieving a SB or PB is completely pointless for skaters?

I only came to this thread to see a gif of Anna Tsareva.

Are there any videos?

 

[MaxSwagg]

Disturbing and outrageous inflation of components here and how any can attempt to defend them is ridiculous. I guarantee you if Mao had competed here she would've lost the components and the entire competition because of this shady judging. Frankly, if I were a skater, I'd never compete in Russia against Russian girls because history has shown judged in events like that is just too suspicious...

 

[solani]

I should think some of us would care because these are official ISU scores, and they would count the same for SB/PB's against other ISU events, even the GP, Euros, and Worlds? These scores give a completely inaccurate and false impression of what actually occurred here. If placement and the 'right' skater winning was all that mattered, why have scores at all? May as well go back to 6.0.

Going back to 6.0 wouldn't change a thing, just imagine Adelina would get 5.9's or 6.0's across the board for artistic impression. The reaction from the FS community would be the same, a few would agree, some would be outraged and the majority wouldn't mind. As I mentioned before, I don't like the idea of the world recored score, personal best and season best. This is not speed skating where you can measure the time (and even there you have to look at the altitude and some ice surfaces are probably faster than others). We seem to be obsessed with records and statistics, bringing this record system to figure skating wasn't the smartes move the ISU ever made. Weight lifting has a couple of different world record lists, because they changed the weight classes a couple of times (to get rid of the unreachable doping records I suppose). And the ISU change the rules all the time, no one can really take this seriously.

 

[andromache]

I only came to this thread to see a gif of Anna Tsareva.

I want to know if she still looked ticked off in the KnC after Anna's skate!

Finally got around to watching Anna's skate. Gorgeous! What a great program for her. She might be a contender for those three spots...she's improved a lot since last year, and I'm super impressed. Maybe the coaching relationship with Tsareva isn't as bad as we speculate, if Tsareva is finally giving her a bit of polish (or maybe working with Morozov has actually helped.)

And I know it's just a B event, but since it's an ISU competition in which scores MATTER for overall season things, it is concerning. I can get over a bit of home-skate boosting, but this is a little much. Someone needs to hold the judges responsible for FAIR judging. Even if all the placements are correct, these scores are used for overall ISU things (SBs, PBs, etc), which means that theoretically, scores should be able to be compared across competitions. Or at least be CLOSE to being compared across competitions.

I wish Adelina had skated better. Her LP is . Favorite Russian ladies LP of the season for me, though Anna has my second favorite. Go Anna and Adelina!

 

[yuki]

I would agree with you if I would've seen the same anger when C&L got +72 ridiculous scores in Lombardia Trophy last season, which was part of Challenger series and I have seen PB and overscoring in Zagreb as well.

You are right, that was quite ridiculous too :yes:.
I assume that more people on this forum follow ladies than they do ice dance, though.
What I was trying to say and may have been lost in my poor phrasing was that not all people who do not agree with the scores have a problem with Adelina/Russian skaters in general.

It doesn't matter if they are skaters from powerful federations or not, and it doesn't matter if it's towards skaters who are not in the race for the podium. An overscoring is overscoring for everybody and that's how you climb up the ranking.

Agreed. I've started following the sport more seriously since Vancouver Olympics and my impression is that 4-5 years ago skaters had to work harder for high PCS. It seems to me that we've reached a point where PCS is getting more political than ever, but maybe that's just me getting old .

Anyway, congratulations to Anna, Adelina and Maria! I'm sure this win will be a great confidence booster for Anna.

 

[jenaj]

I should think some of us would care because these are official ISU scores, and they would count the same for SB/PB's against other ISU events, even the GP, Euros, and Worlds? These scores give a completely inaccurate and false impression of what actually occurred here. If placement and the 'right' skater winning was all that mattered, why have scores at all? May as well go back to 6.0.

How can we discuss the results if the points are of no significance? Does that mean achieving a SB or PB is completely pointless for skaters?



Are there any videos?

I think scores matter but much more at high stakes competitions like the Grand Prix events and Worlds. These B competitions are basically practice for top skaters who choose to compete.

 

[Sandpiper]

Y'know what really annoys me? The inconsistent scoring across events is gonna mess up everyone's guesses on the Predictions Game! I mean, I'm imagining this alternate universe where I don't follow ladies that closely (maybe I'm a die-hard ice dance fan in that world?). I look at the ISU pages of Anna, Liza, and Yulia, and come up with the conclusion that Anna wins when they all skate clean. And then frown in confusion when that doesn't happen (while everyone else laughs at me).

Bring back 6.0! Meaningless is better than misleading!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Y'know what really annoys me? The inconsistent scoring across events is gonna mess up everyone's guesses on the Predictions Game! I mean, I'm imagining this alternate universe where I don't follow ladies that closely (maybe I'm a die-hard ice dance fan in that world?). I look at the ISU pages of Anna, Liza, and Yulia, and come up with the conclusion that Anna wins when they all skate clean. And then frown in confusion when that doesn't happen (while everyone else laughs at me).

Bring back 6.0! Meaningless is better than misleading!

I would prefer 6.0 myself. I personally think CoP has been hijacked by not only judges but even more so by rabid fans


https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/h.../e15/11015684_917855351587463_674910608_n.jpg

So glad to see you back posting Sandpiper! :yay:

 

[helene1967]

Frankly, if I were a skater, I'd never compete in Russia against Russian girls because history has shown judged in events like that is just too suspicious...

In Bratislava (Slovakia) a week ago Russian girls made the podium.
Yesterday in Nice (France) Russian girls were 1st and 2nd.
Was there something wrong?
And in Saransk (Russia) yesterday - did Galustyan or any other non-Russian girl deserve higher place than 4th?

 

[Mista Ekko]

In Bratislava (Slovakia) a week ago Russian girls made the podium.
Yesterday in Nice (France) Russian girls were 1st and 2nd.
Was there something wrong?
And in Saransk (Russia) yesterday - did Galustyan or any other non-Russian girl deserve higher place than 4th?

This post is manipulative

 

[Mista Ekko]

I think scores matter but much more at high stakes competitions like the Grand Prix events and Worlds. These B competitions are basically practice for top skaters who choose to compete.

There's no point in trying to downplay this imo
People are upset for a reason and something should be done,

I mean if challenger series competitions can be scored like this then maybe they shouldn't count as official anymore

 

[Blades of Passion]

I do think Adelina's Salchow was "okay", we can give benefit of the doubt there. The toeloop in the SP was much more problematic. The PCS and GOE were really wonky though (particularly on lutz combo since edge wasn't called and wobbly second jump), it just shows how vastly a score can differ with essentially no accountability for it. I'd say 119 is the highest fair score you could possibly give that performance. She certainly didn't deserve a 9 on any PCS component and the transitions, well, that absolutely should have been a low/mid 7 at most.

Adelina has tons of talent but she's out of shape. We've got to get real here. She's not doing bad on her comeback so far but the level she's showing is not great either.

 

[Florencito]

I would agree with you if I would've seen the same anger when C&L got +72 ridiculous scores in Lombardia Trophy last season, which was part of Challenger series and I have seen PB and overscoring in Zagreb as well. It doesn't matter if they are skaters from powerful federations or not, and it doesn't matter if it's towards skaters who are not in the race for the podium. An overscoring is overscoring for everybody and that's how you climb up the ranking.

Huh? What event are you talking about? The last International/Challenger competition CL took part before this season Lombardia Trophy was 2012 Finlandia Trophy. Until 2015 Worlds they used to get 70+ SDs only at Nationals.

 

[yuki]

Huh? What event are you talking about? The last International/Challenger competition CL took part before this season Lombardia Trophy was 2012 Finlandia Trophy. Until 2015 Worlds they used to get 70+ SDs only at Nationals.

You are correct, C/L did not compete at the 2014 Lombardia Trophy. I got this competition mixed up with the 2014 Italian Nationals (& I assume Alba did, too). Sorry about that.

 

[moriel]

Going back to 6.0 wouldn't change a thing, just imagine Adelina would get 5.9's or 6.0's across the board for artistic impression. The reaction from the FS community would be the same, a few would agree, some would be outraged and the majority wouldn't mind. As I mentioned before, I don't like the idea of the world recored score, personal best and season best. This is not speed skating where you can measure the time (and even there you have to look at the altitude and some ice surfaces are probably faster than others). We seem to be obsessed with records and statistics, bringing this record system to figure skating wasn't the smartes move the ISU ever made. Weight lifting has a couple of different world record lists, because they changed the weight classes a couple of times (to get rid of the unreachable doping records I suppose). And the ISU change the rules all the time, no one can really take this seriously.

No, because the 6.0 would just rank the skaters in the specific competition - so Adelina would lets say get 5.9 and Anna would get 6.0: this would mean Anna was the best, and Adelina second best on this specific event. Kinda like medaling: a gold medal is a gold medal, but one thing is Mordovian Ornament´s gold, and another, a Worlds gold, for example. But both are gold medals. So, as long as the skaters were ordered fairly, the actual numerals they got doesnt matter that much (kinda like WTT, if you are second there, you are second, doesnt matter if it was a 0.20 or a 20 points difference)

Now COP scores are supposed to be comparable between events, and a 200 at Mordovian Ornament is expected to be same as 200 at Worlds, and this is why people are annoyed by inflation.

 

[solani]

No, because the 6.0 would just rank the skaters in the specific competition - so Adelina would lets say get 5.9 and Anna would get 6.0: this would mean Anna was the best, and Adelina second best on this specific event. Kinda like medaling: a gold medal is a gold medal, but one thing is Mordovian Ornament´s gold, and another, a Worlds gold, for example. But both are gold medals. So, as long as the skaters were ordered fairly, the actual numerals they got doesnt matter that much (kinda like WTT, if you are second there, you are second, doesnt matter if it was a 0.20 or a 20 points difference)

Now COP scores are supposed to be comparable between events, and a 200 at Mordovian Ornament is expected to be same as 200 at Worlds, and this is why people are annoyed by inflation.

No, 6.0 as I remember it didn't work that way. Each skater got the highest possible mark for him (this wouldn't be 6.0, only the skater with the supposedly best technical or artistical "content" as a basis and from that basis the judges would deduct. So only the best artistic or technical skater without an error would have the chance to get 6.0's. I remember lots of competitons where the winner received nothing higher than 5.7. Getting 5.9's and 6.0's was something and it was recognized in the FS community.

 

[Ice Dance]

Now COP scores are supposed to be comparable between events

They have never been comparable.
They have never been comparable among different fields. (Scores inevitably grow higher among weak fields than they might for the same athletes competing in a deeper field).
Scores have never been comparable at different times of the season.
They have never been comparable among different host countries.
They have never been comparable during seasons when talented young athletes go out and establish him/her/themselves.
They have never been comparable among different panels.
They have never been comparable during a season in which a slew of athletes retire and the door opens for other athletes.
They have never been comparable between events in which the favorite skates first in the final group vs. when the same athlete skates last.
And they have certainly never been comparable across different seasons.

People may want scores to be comparable. People love to compare scores and claim that they prove one athlete is in a different class than another. People love to analyze scores for the sheer fun of doing so. People can certainly complain when inevitably one competition sends out higher scores than another & those scores are used as tie-breaking or qualifying criteria.

But in reality, scores aren't comparable outside the parameters of a competition.