Wagner "furious" on scores

[princessalica]

"The squeaky wheel always get the most oil"! Although Ashley did not place in the top three, she is getting the most attention and coverage. There is not much coverage about the three girls that worked so hard to get where they are instead taking it for granted. Ashley is a sore loser and in order for her to go to the Olympics, it means that someone that earned the right to go, has to stay home. Figure Skating is a judged sport and you have to rely on the judges scores. If everyone started to be furious and kick up Old he-- over their scores, it's over for everyone. Ashley is 26 years old and a grown woman, I don't think anybody owes her anything with regards to figure skating. There have been more talented skaters that had to face reality and accept the fact that it's over when it's over. Just saying..

After watching the interview with the three going, I'm not sure that they are ready for the media spotlight. Gracie and Ashley were both well-spoken in interviews, even if Gracie was accused of being an ice princess She was warm and engaging in speaking to the media, and has become more outspoken since Worlds 16. Mirai and Karen tried, but poor Bradie, she's got the skills for skating, but she needs some work on media presentation. And maybe she was just in shock, but she didn't give them anything to work with. There was no charm or charisma. I've heard some posters say she's standoffish, but I don't think she's a snob. I think she's really shy. They need to get some extra media training on her. And really that might help her presentation (mind you I'm wowed by how she came back from injury and climbed to the top of US skating)

 

[R.D.]

Tennell comes across as very shy in the interview - I can relate because I’m similar when I’m thrust into an uncomfortable or unfamiliar situation...

I wouldn’t worry though. She is new to the spotlight and it takes experience to be able to handle it smoothly. She’s got Nagasu to lean on, who has already been to the Olympics and knows what that media circus is like...

 

[ssffww]

Me personally I wasn't watching skating at that time.
I feel like she was expecting to be *given* a certain score.

Imo she did a better job selling h h c c back in 2016 (I found the vid on yt). If her pcs went down, its because her performance went down. Imo the upbeat samba music was highlighting her relatively slow spins. To me as a casual viewer it looked more like she was dancing and most flirting and using her upper body. Perhaps thejudges remember the old program, made a comparison, and decided she fell flat this time.

I understand she may have a problem learning new choreography. In a way she shot herself in the foot by resurrecting old programs. Declines in skating and selling a,programs become more obvious.

Maybe her programs are fun, but she gets a lot of yellow boxes...

It's not like she pulled out all the stops.

PCS scores have never been used correctly. There are so many complaints about them on this forum it's crazy. PCS have been awarded on reputation for years and used as a tool by judges to place skaters where they wish. So, if she "expected" a certain PCS score that's because that's what the system led her to expect. I support her right to speak out all she wants. I have not heard her say one negative thing about her competitors or about the selection committee, only the judges on PCS. Perhaps I missed something.

I think the judges were sending a clear message that they're ready to focus on the future and preferred to invest in Karen. I think the committee made the only decision they could given the criteria set. If Ashley had performed that Salchow or rotated her toe in the short program combination, she'd be on the team. I'm sorry she missed out. She's one of my favorites. But, that's how the cookie crumbles. Sometimes the scores go your way, sometimes they don't.

 

[princessalica]

That looks nice on the surface, until you read an article like this one that Jenny Kirk wrote years ago:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120830...ferkirk/2009/07/20/why-skaters-arent-friends/

I've never read that article. Very interesting, though not surprising. I struggled with not being the biggest fan of Ashley after some comments she (ironically enough) made on TSL in an interview with Jenny. She wasn't very nice when talking about Gracie. It really turned me off from her skating, and I wonder at she and actually becoming friends. I don't doubt that they are friends now, although each seems closer to Adam than each other, but this friendship didn't really happen until Gracie was melting down. And I applaud Ashley for defending her, supporting her, and giving her friendship now, but I can certainly see a lack of solid friendship between ladies skating at the same time against each other.

 

[penniavaswen]

Actually, I think they do. Aren't these "comfort dogs" bred and trained for this purpose? I believe that there is an official "Comfort Dog" registry for dogs that have passed all their tests, etc.

My neurologist has one in his office. The dog just wanders around from room to room and any patient who wants to hug him, can. (Hey, it's a living :yes: .)

During my backstage tour, i was told that the dogs were indeed in training to become service animals, and they even had their own official lanyard access pass.
Incidentally, it was explicitly stated that none of the athletes had allergies to the puppies. This should have been obvious in hindsight, given how much medical history they must have; there was a room labelled in the back with just "DOPING" on the sign.

 

[kwanatic]

I don't know. I am starting to feel like, "Move along. Nothing to see here." A skater got lower scores from the judges than she thought she deserved. Is that it?

It's deserving of a bit more attention than usual simply b/c it's not like she can "try again next year." It's the Olympics; once every 4 years...that makes it bigger. Plus we're heading into the one month out of the year this country actually pays attention to figure skating so it's likely to make more waves than a story like this usual would. And of course, anything with controversy or drama is gold when it comes to this sport (b/c that's what it's so frequently associated with) so there's another reason this hasn't faded away completely yet.

 

[jenaj]

Jenny had a chip on her shoulder and it was never as bad as she tried to portray it to be. Also, this was almost 10 years ago and the competitive environment has changed alot. They all may not be best friends, but they are friendly, most get along well and are supportive of each other in US/Canada at least.

I agree about a change in the competitive and social environment. The stereotype of women always being in "catfights" with each other is slowly fading away. Forgive me for using this example, but on The Bachelor, a lot of the women end up good friends with each other, even though they are competitors (granted, the "prize" is arguably not as valuable as an Olympic gold medal). NBC showed Ashley hugging Mirai after she skated. Was that fake? It seems to me they really are supportive of each other. There really is no point in not being friends if, without the skating, they would be. In the end, each skater has to deliver for her (or him) self. Deciding not to be friends with a competitor isn't going to affect the outcome of the competition in the end.

 

[winky97]

Actually, I think they do. Aren't these "comfort dogs" bred and trained for this purpose? I believe that there is an official "Comfort Dog" registry for dogs that have passed all their tests, etc.

My neurologist has one in his office. The dog just wanders around from room to room and any patient who wants to hug him, can. (Hey, it's a living :yes: .)

There is comfort dog criteria, but we're the skaters playing with comfort dogs or dogs that were up for adoption? The dogs looked like puppies so they may not have been official comfort dogs?

 

[tulosai]

After watching the interview with the three going, I'm not sure that they are ready for the media spotlight. Gracie and Ashley were both well-spoken in interviews, even if Gracie was accused of being an ice princess She was warm and engaging in speaking to the media, and has become more outspoken since Worlds 16. Mirai and Karen tried, but poor Bradie, she's got the skills for skating, but she needs some work on media presentation. And maybe she was just in shock, but she didn't give them anything to work with. There was no charm or charisma. I've heard some posters say she's standoffish, but I don't think she's a snob. I think she's really shy. They need to get some extra media training on her. And really that might help her presentation (mind you I'm wowed by how she came back from injury and climbed to the top of US skating)

I actually thought Mirai and Karen did okay given what they had to work with. The interviewers were not great. Nagasu in particular has definitely proven in the past that she's capable of engaging the media and being charming though I think she's deliberately and kind of sadly reigned some of that in. To me comments like 'I'm looking forward to all the free stuff' and 'I want to get a Cartier watch like Evan' added greatly to her charm.

I do agree that Bradie needs some help though. She truly was like a deer in the headlights.

 

[combinationspin]

I've never read that article. Very interesting, though not surprising. I struggled with not being the biggest fan of Ashley after some comments she (ironically enough) made on TSL in an interview with Jenny. She wasn't very nice when talking about Gracie. It really turned me off from her skating, and I wonder at she and actually becoming friends. I don't doubt that they are friends now, although each seems closer to Adam than each other, but this friendship didn't really happen until Gracie was melting down. And I applaud Ashley for defending her, supporting her, and giving her friendship now, but I can certainly see a lack of solid friendship between ladies skating at the same time against each other.

From Ashley’s interviews I’ve gathered that she has lots of respect for Gracie but doesn’t want friendship with her because they have been rivals for the top American spot for the longest time. I doubt Gracie considers Ashley a friend, she wrote a tweet right after Ashley finished Lalaland at Nationals about how she doesn’t think it’s a strong enough program (program not performance!) worthy to be send to the the Olympics. After some backlash Gracie deleted the tweet.
I actually find it kind of strange that Gracie compliments Adam on twitter so excessively (‘I could only love him more if I were a gay man’). He’s already Ashley’s best friend and it doubt she wants competition on that matter.

 

[skylark]

] I was impressed with how she spoke up for the women on the team and said she did not want to delegitimize their spots because people had try to do that to her. Honestly, I think most of the people who criticize her are still obsessed with how she "stole" Mirai's spot in 2014.

She did a great job. Twice she stated that she does not question anyone else's scores or even her own in comparison to anyone else. She knows how to conduct herself in an interview, she's eloquent, she sounds mature. Good for her.

Well, Ross has said he doesn't agree with the decision he has alluded to it being politicized and even used the term "back-room deal", which of course is his opinion. (https://www.nbcboston.com/news/loca...Miner-Shocked-by-Olympics-Snub-468535473.html)

But nobody's raking him over the coals for suggesting that things are political or even implying that some shady deal was struck, because that's him calling a spade a spade and giving his opinion. It's the same reason people are supporting Wagner. Frustration or injustice is something that should be expressed and addressed... not internalized while you put on a smiley veneer, because that almost makes it seem like you're cool with it. These are humans, not just athletes. They work hard and have earned the right to call people out (as people have the right to criticize or support them for doing so).

Also, I think Wagner knows the decision is finalized and isn't trying to convince the committee. As far as using it as a chance to dismiss the bad judging or apologize for a genuine (and justifiable) reaction, that's just not Ashley.

People have loved to hate on Ashley ever since she was rightfully placed on an Olympic Team she fully merited being on despite her correct 4th place finish at the 2014 Nationals. ...
Furthermore many Americans especialy say they want their skaters to be more vocal and determined to reach their goals, yet when a strong, independent, and confident women like Ashley speaks her mind, and says things that in this instance are in fact the exact truth, she gets raked over the coals for it. Go figure. There is no winning with some people.

I just realize that for some people speaking or questioning authority is equal to having bad sportsmanship. She doesn't even criticize any skater who has been named to the team....
And don't let me start on the "controversy" in 2014 which should not happened at all if judge gave Mirai a proper ur call and pcs.

:clapper:

Ashley Wagner is a pioneer. She's a woman speaking up for herself in a sport where women, especially, are supposed to smile and accept. Pioneers are often lightning rods for anger, bitterness, and the most vicious criticism.

In this interview and even in the first one in the mixed zone, she only talked about herself and her feelings. She used "I language," owning her feelings and thoughts.

Ashley's a warrior. She's a hero. She has the courage to confront what she believes is wrong ... on her own behalf, as well as on others' behalf. She has the courage not to back down. She's fearless.

 

[Jammers]

I've never read that article. Very interesting, though not surprising. I struggled with not being the biggest fan of Ashley after some comments she (ironically enough) made on TSL in an interview with Jenny. She wasn't very nice when talking about Gracie. It really turned me off from her skating, and I wonder at she and actually becoming friends. I don't doubt that they are friends now, although each seems closer to Adam than each other, but this friendship didn't really happen until Gracie was melting down. And I applaud Ashley for defending her, supporting her, and giving her friendship now, but I can certainly see a lack of solid friendship between ladies skating at the same time against each other.

Of course Ashley and Gracie weren't best friends when they were competing. Ashley felt threatened by the new kid on the block who could jump like she never could and both of them wanted the same thing being the number 1 US lady. I was glad to see them not act all buddy buddy it was refreshing to see two US ladies who wanted badly to beat each other and not pretend to be best friends. In the end both girls were fierce competitors and sometimes we don't see that in these US ladies now.

 

[stella luna]

:clapper:

Ashley Wagner is a pioneer. She's a woman speaking up for herself in a sport where women, especially, are supposed to smile and accept. Pioneers are often lightning rods for anger, bitterness, and the most vicious criticism.

In this interview and even in the first one in the mixed zone, she only talked about herself and her feelings. She used "I language," owning her feelings and thoughts.

Ashley's a warrior. She's a hero. She has the courage to confront what she believes is wrong ... on her own behalf, as well as on others' behalf. She has the courage not to back down. She's fearless.

And she's sure not afraid of news cameras and reporters!

 

[stella luna]

After watching the interview with the three going, I'm not sure that they are ready for the media spotlight. Gracie and Ashley were both well-spoken in interviews, even if Gracie was accused of being an ice princess She was warm and engaging in speaking to the media, and has become more outspoken since Worlds 16. Mirai and Karen tried, but poor Bradie, she's got the skills for skating, but she needs some work on media presentation. And maybe she was just in shock, but she didn't give them anything to work with. There was no charm or charisma. I've heard some posters say she's standoffish, but I don't think she's a snob. I think she's really shy. They need to get some extra media training on her. And really that might help her presentation (mind you I'm wowed by how she came back from injury and climbed to the top of US skating)

So what's the scoring system for interview skills at the Olympics?

 

[stella luna]

PCS scores have never been used correctly. There are so many complaints about them on this forum it's crazy. PCS have been awarded on reputation for years and used as a tool by judges to place skaters where they wish. So, if she "expected" a certain PCS score that's because that's what the system led her to expect. I support her right to speak out all she wants. I have not heard her say one negative thing about her competitors or about the selection committee, only the judges on PCS. Perhaps I missed something.

I think the judges were sending a clear message that they're ready to focus on the future and preferred to invest in Karen. I think the committee made the only decision they could given the criteria set. If Ashley had performed that Salchow or rotated her toe in the short program combination, she'd be on the team. I'm sorry she missed out. She's one of my favorites. But, that's how the cookie crumbles. Sometimes the scores go your way, sometimes they don't.

She's a tough cookie, and had to leave more crumbs when she crumbled!

 

[Amei]

Just to remind us there is still some great sportsmanship and camaraderie in skating: here is the last flight of Ladies getting ready to go out for their warm up at last year's Canadian nationals
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPgYct_j3AJ/

This reminds me of all the 'athletes surprising xyz fan'....the camera just happened to be there. It's a nice photo op.

It's been a rough Wednesday and my cynical flag is flying.

 

[TontoK]

Actually, I think they do. Aren't these "comfort dogs" bred and trained for this purpose? I believe that there is an official "Comfort Dog" registry for dogs that have passed all their tests, etc.

My neurologist has one in his office. The dog just wanders around from room to room and any patient who wants to hug him, can. (Hey, it's a living :yes: .)

Some of my forum-friends might be surprised to learn that I am a huge believer in the value of therapy or comfort dogs. Normally, I'd see something like that as too "snowflake."

But working with veterans, both individually and groups, I cannot express to you how much these animals can mean for broken or vulnerable men and women.

I am certain, absolutely certain, that the companionship and unqualified love between a dog and master has saved more than one life.

If you own a dog, then you love a dog. And you MUST get out of bed and see to it. You MUST go outside and take care of it. You can be certain that your dog isn't judging you, so a dog can reach a man's soul in ways that another person can't.

And thus endeth Tonto's walk on the touchy-feely side.

 

[narcissa]

That looks nice on the surface, until you read an article like this one that Jenny Kirk wrote years ago:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120830...ferkirk/2009/07/20/why-skaters-arent-friends/

Is this more of a US/North American thing? Because ladies (and men) from other countries seem to get along better with their competitors, just my impression.....

 

[GGFan]

Is this more of a US/North American thing? Because ladies (and men) from other countries seem to get along better with their competitors, just my impression.....

With things like this the sample size is so limited that it's hard to tell. There have been noted American rivalries: Elaine Zayak v. Rosalynn Sumners and Caryn Kadavy v. Jill Trenary come to mind. I mention these because the ladies have confirmed them (and in Elaine's case seemed to relive the entire thing during the interview). There are others but there have also been great friendships like Nancy Kerrigan and Kristi Yamaguchi.

Having said that there have also been great Russian rivalries: Oksana Grishuk v. Oksana Bauil and Oksana Grishuk v. Maya Usova :dev2: (sorry had to get Pasha in there). (Or Yagudin v. Plushenko on the men's side)

These things are also complicated because media, training proximity, coaches who play students against each other all play a part so I do not know that we can boil it down to a region of the world.

I'm sure we can think of examples from other countries. What I think is more of a difference is today's social media generation is in general more friendly regardless of country. They seem to view skating as an individual sport in the sense that you cannot change anyone else's performance. The ease of communication and travel makes it so that these athletes all know each other better than those in previous generations did.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Having said that there have also been great Russian rivalries: Oksana Grishuk v. Oksana Bauil and Oksana Grishuk v. Maya Usova :dev2: (sorry had to get Pasha in there). (Or Yagudin v. Plushenko on the men's side)

Grishuk must have been hard to get along with. IIRC she got into a physical altercation with Nicole Bobek.