Daria Panenkova left Eteri’s group?

[Tutto]

Okay but still, it doesn't matter.

You have to look at the past years and what CSKA skaters have accomplished, and how much it costs for Russia to push a club that achieved so little in the past years in figure skating despite the massive resources they have.

If you look at the Olympics and the past 3 World Championships, all medals Russia gained in ladies figure skating are coming from Sambo70 skaters. (all Eteri's skaters and one bronze with Pogorilaya)

I understand your sentiment but I think it would be equally wrong for RusFEd to cease supporting all other clubs and channel all the resources to Sambo70 which doesn't btw appear to be short of money by any means.
AFAIK CSKA money comes not solely from the FS Federation but also from the Army & sponcors, it is a big powerful club, successful in many other sports apart from FS.
There is a lot of fair criticism of how RusFed handles things but I don't think they are entirely as mad as some people would like to think. When Kovtun was showing the results internationally - they supported him, and then they didn't and this year he is not even on the national team

 

[Sorrento]

You have to look at the past years and what CSKA skaters have accomplished, and how much it costs for Russia to push a club that achieved so little in the past years in figure skating despite the massive resources they have.

They shouldn't push the only coach as well. Take Pairs and Mozer case. What good had she done for this field in the past 4 years? Now she's semi-retired, the best Russian Pair is under an ex Olympic champion who has zero coaching experience. That is the result of pushing one club only.
Competition is between a few coaches produces the best results, not all top skaters can have a favorable training situation under the same coach, in many cases they look for other opportunities to sustain longevity in this sport.
Perhaps some enjoy the never- ending fountain of a new fresh star every other year. I don't. I also would like to see a bit of variety in between style and technique and that is possible when a few coaches work on the same, say, market.

 

[Tolstoj]

I understand your sentiment but I think it would be equally wrong for RusFEd to cease supporting all other clubs and channel all the resources to Sambo70 which doesn't btw appear to be short of money by any means.
AFAIK CSKA money comes not solely from the FS Federation but also from the Army & sponcors, it is a big powerful club, successful in many other sports apart from FS.
There is a lot of fair criticism of how RusFed handles things but I don't think they are entirely as mad as some people would like to think. When Kovtun was showing the results internationally - they supported him, and then they didn't and this year he is not even on the national team

You can push the strongest team, or you can push the biggest clubs in general in an equal form: either way is better than wasting money on CSKA regardless of their results.

Sambo70 is not short of money but CSKA still has more funding, and all the other advantages. (it's the huge inflation at domestic competitions that really hurts the other clubs)

CSKA is no longer the club of the Red Army, it still represents that but since this is no longer the Soviet Union, things have changed.

FS Federation = Russian government
Army = Ministry of Defense = Russian government
sponsors = Rosneft or VTB = Russian Government and companies close to the government.

I follow other sports, so i know what CSKA is outside FS: it's very strong in basketball, while in football they're fine and they got the new stadium but they don't have money to get new players, i don't know much about Hockey but apparently they have a strong team.

Rosneft and the Ministry of Defense were about the close CSKA Figure Skating (basically using that rink only for the hockey team) because it was no longer relevant and they were about to build the new rink, but it's still there because basically Putin did what Tarasova wanted.

http://www.aipsmedia.com/index.php?page=news&cod=6797

Sorry for the huge OT but it was needed.

As for Daria, at the end of the day Tsareva is still a very strong coach that might consider her more than Eteri, so this might be a good choice for her, but she has to compete at GP this season.

 

[Tolstoj]

They shouldn't push the only coach as well. Take Pairs and Mozer case. What good had she done for this field in the past 4 years? Now she's semi-retired, the best Russian Pair is under an ex Olympic champion who has zero coaching experience. That is the result of pushing one club only.
Competition is between a few coaches produces the best results, not all top skaters can have a favorable training situation under the same coach, in many cases they look for other opportunities to sustain longevity in this sport.
Perhaps some enjoy the never- ending fountain of a new fresh star every other year. I don't. I also would like to see a bit of variety in between style and technique and that is possible when a few coaches work on the same, say, market.

That's basically what Russia is doing with Buyanova and her students brought even less medals than Nina Mozer.

I'm not encouraging that, i'm just saying that seeing Sambo70 (after what this club accomplished) still not as good as CSKA in terms of funding, rinks, specialists,... is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Artemisa]

If she really got to Tsareva ... I hope she knows how to fall .... I don't think she is a good coach ... I good coach don't let an athlete compete with health problems and teach them how to fall ...

 

[Sorrento]

That's basically what Russia is doing with Buyanova and her students brought even less medals than Nina Mozer.
I'm not encouraging that, i'm just saying that seeing Sambo70 (after what this club accomplished) still not as good as CSKA in terms of funding, rinks, specialists,... is absolutely ridiculous.

You do know that after the OG Eteri and her gold and silver medalists asked for a new rink from Russian President? And so I've heard they got a yes. So stop complaining, they will get everything they need, it just takes time. Rink is a good costly item to have for your future success, right?
Also having every coach produce main competitions medal winners on a constant basis is kind of ridiculous. They don't have that many medals, the ISU, they are worried about it and are going to make changes to introduce moar medals, all sorts of moar. After introducing those ridiculous technical and artistic programs they need to start to give medals for every jump, spin and step sequence separately.
Russia. Russia is big. So there will always be a situation when one club has more sponsors and funds than the other. Isn't it so in all the other parts of the world? Russia is no longer a communist country, it's same as the rest of the world, a capitalist one. You guys complain that Russia is old fashioned country where everything is paid by the government. Well, it's not true. Same as there are no polar bears in the streets of Moscow.

 

[Fluture]

If she really got to Tsareva ... I hope she knows how to fall .... I don't think she is a good coach ... I good coach don't let an athlete compete with health problems and teach them how to fall ...

On the contrary, a good coach teaches an athlete how to fall before even beginning to attempt the serious jumps. Falling without hurting oneself is a basic skill in figure skating and that‘s why I don‘t think of Tsareva as a good coach at all. Anna‘s falls were literally scary. I really don‘t want Daria to go the same route. And it‘s not like Tsareva is “nicer“ or more supporting than Eteri either. I remember her on several occasions with Anna... didn‘t strike me as a coach I‘d personally want to train under. Not at all. Heck, I‘d rather have her go to Buyanova than Tsareva...

 

[charlotte14]

And no one cares why Dasha has to leave her coach at this tender time right before the season? It’s all about “Poor Eteri getting less treatment from Russian Fed compared to CSKA” despite the fact Eteri and co will get a new rink?
It is not about why an elite skater who gets 2 GP assignments have to leave her coaching group so soon before the test skate? What drove her to that point?
Was it too stressful for her to stay? Why no one cares about the comment on instagram that she clicked like? It seems something serious happened at her coaching group, too much to the point she could not handle them anymore and go to a “lesser coach”. I am certain Dasha knows how successful that other Eteri’s girls have become, and that she has 2 GP assignments it’s a great chance for her but NOPE she has to move. Something not so good, something too stressful for her to the point she has to move out. Maybe the competitions within the group has become too uncomfortable. Or maybe the requirements have become too strict. Anyway it is not good for her, so she moves.
I just hope the best for her.

 

[zounger]

And no one cares why Dasha has to leave her coach at this tender time right before the season? It’s all about “Poor Eteri getting less treatment from Russian Fed compared to CSKA” despite the fact Eteri and co will get a new rink?
It is not about why an elite skater who gets 2 GP assignments have to leave her coaching group so soon before the test skate? What drove her to that point?
Was it too stressful for her to stay? Why no one cares about the comment on instagram that she clicked like? It seems something serious happened at her coaching group, too much to the point she could not handle them anymore and go to a “lesser coach”. I am certain Dasha knows how successful that other Eteri’s girls have become, and that she has 2 GP assignments it’s a great chance for her but NOPE she has to move. Something not so good, something too stressful for her to the point she has to move out. Maybe the competitions within the group has become too uncomfortable. Or maybe the requirements have become too strict. Anyway it is not good for her, so she moves.
I just hope the best for her.

If you know tell us. Otherwise what do you expect from people to say, if they don't know? Most of us were conserned and said that she should find a new coach as fast as possible in order to not ruin her first and more significant senior season. Anything else are assumptions ... which may some people are not willing to follow.

Ok she was starving the girls to death. The training was so mad that they are all with tapes on legs and cannot sleep at nights from pain. She gone mad and was surfacing the ice with their bodies. She gave the crappiest programm to her. So rightfully Daria decided to leave. I would have left as well .That are the main reasons.

 

[charlotte14]

If you know tell us. Otherwise what do you expect from people to say, if they don't know? Most of us were conserned and said that she should find a new coach as fast as possible in order to not ruin her first and more significant senior season. Anything else are assumptions ... which may some people are not willing to follow.

Ok she was starving the girls to death. The training was so mad that they are all with tapes on legs and cannot sleep at nights from pain. She gone mad and was surfacing the ice with their bodies. She gave the crappiest programm to her. So rightfully Daria decided to leave. I would have left as well .That are the main reasons.

I am rolling eyes on the fact that while she has to move to some “lesser coach” yet some think she should stay with Eteri and co. It’s like people are “Omg why you left that company it’s the best place you can get” while in reality “that place is too stressful why shouldn’t I move on”?

Anyone with common sense would have felt something is not right for a person to move away from a “good place”. Either that person has some personal issue or that place is not that good, and that place has an issue with that person.

I am just fed up with all talk about “Fed favors other club and sabotage this club”. People are not naive. They are practical. If staying will bring the best results for Dasha, she and her family would have stayed no matter what the fed or anyone tell them. If they do not stay, then it is too much for them. No medals and good results could be enough for the stress and pressure they feel. Simple as that. Nothing to do with the federation favoring anyone.

 

[colormyworld240]

I am rolling eyes on the fact that while she has to move to some “lesser coach” yet some think she should stay with Eteri and co. It’s like people are “Omg why you left that company it’s the best place you can get” while in reality “that place is too stressful why shouldn’t I move on”?

Anyone with common sense would have felt something is not right for a person to move away from a “good place”. Either that person has some personal issue or that place is not that good, and that place has an issue with that person.

I am just fed up with all talk about “Fed favors other club and sabotage this club”. People are not naive. They are practical. If staying will bring the best results for Dasha, she and her family would have stayed no matter what the fed or anyone tell them. If they do not stay, then it is too much for them. No medals and good results could be enough for the stress and pressure they feel. Simple as that. Nothing to do with the federation favoring anyone.

This thread is a place for discussion, no one is asking Dasha "omg why you left a place that's the best you can get". People's opinion on here is that Eteri is better than Buyanova and Tsareva based on results, and they think she shouldn't be leaving. Others are bringing in federation support for different clubs, which is a valid point of discussion as well, true or not; after all no one knows that Dasha left so the thread is for discussing speculation. If you're fed up with these topics you can bring in your own contribution to why you think Dasha left, but don't invalidate what others are saying when we have no facts yet.

 

[glassanimal]

Daria’s made it obvious with her sm activity that there were serious internal problems in her previous group.

 

[Anniversary]

...I‘d rather have her go to Buyanova than Tsareva...

Yes, Buyanova is better for programms and skating skills

 

[Anniversary]

... I don't think Tsareva is as bad as people always assume. There have been times in the K&C when she looked very kind and supportive of Anna after good and bad performances

And when she was a judge - also during performances

 

[RemyRose]

Yes, Buyanova is better for programms and skating skills

Considering her programs from last season anything would be a step up :think:

 

[silverfoxes]

Idk, I don't think Tsareva is as bad as people always assume. There have been times in the K&C when she looked very kind and supportive of Anna, after both good and bad performances.

Even the most notorious coaches are not raging monsters all the time or nobody would stick around. Doesn't mean they can't be abusive at certain times and in certain ways. Of course I don't know enough about Tsareva to go as far as to call her abusive, but any coach who pushes a skater to compete through serious injury has some issues, imo.

 

[Tolstoj]

Idk, I don't think Tsareva is as bad as people always assume. There have been times in the K&C when she looked very kind and supportive of Anna, after both good and bad performances.

She seems a very demanding coach, look at her reaction at Anna's steps sequence at GPF 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSKAKpr6iD8

And i remember there videos of run-through from Skate Canada last year and she looked angry all the time.

I do agree that she is not that bad, at the end of the day it's all about the results and looking at Anna Pogorilaya, she achieved a lot despite always being treated like the one judges are so ready to screw, arguagbly she deserved even few more medals than what she got (Worlds 2014 was a bronze for me, Worlds 2016 silver, GPF 2016 silver, and Russian Nationals 2017 she was better than Sotskova)

 

[andromache]

She seems a very demanding coach, look at her reaction at Anna's steps sequence at GPF 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSKAKpr6iD8

And i remember there videos of run-through from Skate Canada last year and she looked angry all the time.

I do agree that she is not that bad, at the end of the day it's all about the results and looking at Anna Pogorilaya, she achieved a lot despite always being treated like the one judges are so ready to screw, arguagbly she deserved even few more medals than what she got (Worlds 2014 was a bronze for me, Worlds 2016 silver, GPF 2016 silver, and Russian Nationals 2017 she was better than Sotskova)

At the end of the day I would argue that it's not all about the results and more about the skater's health and happiness. But I digress.....

All I'm saying is we can't read into too much based on a coach's facial expressions in the K&C. We don't know enough about their relationship to judge whether or not Tsareva is a harmful coach or not - though I agree that she obviously neglected teaching Anna how to fall, yikes. It's also unclear (correct me if I'm wrong) if she pushed Anna to compete while injured or if that was Anna's choice because she so desperately wanted to go the Olympics (competing while injured could be why Tsareva looked so angry all the time during Skate Canada).

I do think that Anna was/is at the point in her career where she could seek a new coach if she wanted to. She's not a child anymore.

I feel similarly when people criticize Raf for not caring about anyone but Nathan. Like, just because he seems detached in the K&C with Mariah Bell doesn't mean he is neglecting her regularly. If he was, Mariah is an adult, and she could find another coach.

 

[LRK]

At the end of the day I would argue that it's not all about the results and more about the skater's health and happiness. But I digress.....

All I'm saying is we can't read into too much based on a coach's facial expressions in the K&C. We don't know enough about their relationship to judge whether or not Tsareva is a harmful coach or not - though I agree that she obviously neglected teaching Anna how to fall, yikes. It's also unclear (correct me if I'm wrong) if she pushed Anna to compete while injured or if that was Anna's choice because she so desperately wanted to go the Olympics (competing while injured could be why Tsareva looked so angry all the time during Skate Canada).

I do think that Anna was/is at the point in her career where she could seek a new coach if she wanted to. She's not a child anymore.

I feel similarly when people criticize Raf for not caring about anyone but Nathan. Like, just because he seems detached in the K&C with Mariah Bell doesn't mean he is neglecting her regularly. If he was, Mariah is an adult, and she could find another coach.

I think this interview with Anna is pretty illuminating:

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/vaytsekhovskayas-interview-with-pogorilaya.102994/

 

[Tolstoj]

At the end of the day I would argue that it's not all about the results and more about the skater's health and happiness. But I digress.....

All I'm saying is we can't read into too much based on a coach's facial expressions in the K&C. We don't know enough about their relationship to judge whether or not Tsareva is a harmful coach or not - though I agree that she obviously neglected teaching Anna how to fall, yikes. It's also unclear (correct me if I'm wrong) if she pushed Anna to compete while injured or if that was Anna's choice because she so desperately wanted to go the Olympics (competing while injured could be why Tsareva looked so angry all the time during Skate Canada).

I do think that Anna was/is at the point in her career where she could seek a new coach if she wanted to. She's not a child anymore.

I feel similarly when people criticize Raf for not caring about anyone but Nathan. Like, just because he seems detached in the K&C with Mariah Bell doesn't mean he is neglecting her regularly. If he was, Mariah is an adult, and she could find another coach.

There are several interviews with Pogorilaya where she said how strict Tsareva is, but she also always said that she accepted it, cause at this level in a way you have to be tough.

Being at the top means a lot of pressure, responsabilities, because you have to be perfect every single time, especially when the field is soo deep, if you fail at your first attempt, you're gone. (that's for example how important is for Daria to compete at this GP series, if she doesn't build her momentum now, then hoping to have spot next season will be incredibly hard)

If you don't want all of this, if you want a more relaxing experience just quit do something else, do ice shows or accept to compete at only few minor competitions cause you can't compete all year against someone who trains hard every day.