Elizabeth Manley and Joannie Rochette came in between Karen Magnussen and Kaetlyn Osmond. The biggest gap was between Manley and Rochette --- 1988 to 2009. Those were the years of Josee Chouinard, Karen Preston, Susan Humphreys and Jennifer Robinson.
2018-19 Canadian figure skating
- Thread starter Mango
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
While Jennifer was not much of a top six threat there were others Kay Thomson (the lutz and spinner), Lisa Sargent, Cynthia Phaneuf, Tracey Wainmanand Gabby Daleman all post 1980 have been maybe top six worthy. Their biggest disappointment was Josee Chouinard she had amazing charm and when her jumps were on they were huge like Rochette, Osmond and Manley. We'll see who will be the next top notch Canadian though it would be nice to see Kaetlyn medal again or see Gabby come back. I wonder comparedto Gracie Gold who is in better shapeto compete - Gold or Daleman.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Osmond was 10th at Junior Worlds, so it doesn’t matter if our juniors get easily beaten or if their potential isn’t immediately showing. Look at Javier Fernandez — if you had written him off because of how the beginning of his career and getting beaten by scores of skaters, you’d have had to eat your words.
The quad and triple axel revolution is great, but the girls still need to maintain them and land them consistently. Mao/Liza/Kihira were still all vulnerable if their 3A wasn’t working, and even when the 3A was being landed they were prone to other errors. Promising juniors fade all the time or their jumps deteriorate.
Also, do we really care if Canada has another World champion/medalist for a while? We *just* had a World Champion and two World medalists the year before. Let’s give the other countries a chance to get back on the podium/the top of it.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Osmond was 10th at Junior Worlds, so it doesn’t matter if our juniors get easily beaten or if their potential isn’t immediately showing. Look at Javier Fernandez — if you had written him off because of how the beginning of his career and getting beaten by scores of skaters, you’d have had to eat your words.
The quad and triple axel revolution is great, but the girls still need to maintain them and land them consistently. Mao/Liza/Kihira were still all vulnerable if their 3A wasn’t working, and even when the 3A was being landed they were prone to other errors. Promising juniors fade all the time or their jumps deteriorate.
Also, do we really care if Canada has another World champion/medalist for a while? We *just* had a World Champion and two World medalists the year before. Let’s give the other countries a chance to get back on the podium/the top of it.
Maybe we should tell that to Russia...
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
These are unique situations. For me, your words mean: "our business strategy - hope that the wonderful event will happen again"
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
I was interested in the topic of recent posts. Like this:
So, I thought you had an effective development strategy for Canadian ladies and wanted to hear it. Yes, I asked my question in skepticism, but this is just a common rhetorical device, a specific invitation to dialogue
tbh, so far only 4everchan answered constructively to me:- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I think it's more like, develop our skaters so they can have a healthier career instead of burn themselves out by compelling them to learn quads and triple axels or 7 triple skates. And from that good skaters will eventually emerge. The need to constantly have a contender isn't something we concern ourselves with so much as developing athletes who can enjoy the sport by having careers that are more sustainable even if it means we don't win Worlds every year. If everyone suddenly started doing quads and triple axels at some point there could be someone who emerges, but if there isn't for a while and the podium is dominated by other countries, it's not ideal but still totally fine.
Everyone was citing the Canadian men being in trouble after Chan was ending his career and the Canadian men being able to technically keep up with the quadsters and now we have a couple skaters who can land quads including Gogolev who can land 3 different ones - as a junior. The onus isn't just on the federation to find and develop the talent... sometimes it's the right person showing up at the right time. We can't be like Russia or Japan where there's way more interest and thousands more skaters to choose from because the interest in skating is immensely greater - and kind of an unfair expectation to expect us to constantly have a contender when the talent pool is smaller and by comparison we simply don't care about figure skating as much.
Another issue is that Russia funds its top skaters, including payment for coaching and equipment. If they bring home an Olympic medal, there are huge perks directly from the government.
The Canadian and US governments do not fund skating at all. Their skating federations provide some funding to the very top echelon of their skaters, but the amount is very small in comparison to the huge expenses required to maintain top shape.
Another advantage the Russian skaters have is the Russian cup series which keeps the skaters competing against one another all season. This is possible again because of funding from the Russian government.
In the US and Canada, this would be impossible for the skating federations to pull off. They could not afford the huge price of arena ice, which is shared by hockey teams and rock bands with big pockets.
In Russia there are a few main skating schools in central locations, while the skating clubs in the US and Canada are spread all over huge areas. That also prevents skaters from having ongoing intramural competitions throughout the skating season. It is just logistically impossible.
The Canadian and US governments do not fund skating at all. Their skating federations provide some funding to the very top echelon of their skaters, but the amount is very small in comparison to the huge expenses required to maintain top shape.
Another advantage the Russian skaters have is the Russian cup series which keeps the skaters competing against one another all season. This is possible again because of funding from the Russian government.
In the US and Canada, this would be impossible for the skating federations to pull off. They could not afford the huge price of arena ice, which is shared by hockey teams and rock bands with big pockets.
In Russia there are a few main skating schools in central locations, while the skating clubs in the US and Canada are spread all over huge areas. That also prevents skaters from having ongoing intramural competitions throughout the skating season. It is just logistically impossible.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2012
I agree with Chuckm’s comments wrt funding but should also consider that in Canada, and likely in many other countries, we also have strong competition for superior athletes from other winter sports.
Hockey is the obvious one - girls’ hockey has greatly increased in popularity in the last decade in Canada thanks to our amazing international results. I come from a small community of ~ 12,000 that has not produced any international-level figure skaters but has produced several NHL hockey players. The infrastructure for developing hockey skills in our region is amazing – not so much superior figure skating skills – its easy for our girls to tap into those and become very skilled hockey players. We are also producing excellent short and long track speedskaters in many regions of the country as well as world medallist snowboarders and skiers. Luge and bobsledding is also increasing in popularity and success.
There may be thousands of young female figure skaters who dream of being able to skate like Katelyn Osmond or Gabby Daleman; however, most either don’t have the physical aptitude, the access to superior coaching, or their parents are unable or unwilling to invest in anything beyond recreational skating opportunities.
This isn’t a bad thing – we need to keep skating accessible to all children, to keep them active and engaged. This involves low-cost ice time along with good learn-to-skate programs such as CanSkate, and lots of opportunities for recreational-level competitions. While identification and physical, mental and financial nurturing of children with superior skating ability is fine, it is only a fraction of the whole national figure skating picture. Having a decade between Joannie and Katelyn, isn’t a disaster for a country, as long as it is doing the other stuff right and not creating a program that focusses too much on the “1%” and not enough on the “99%”.
Hockey is the obvious one - girls’ hockey has greatly increased in popularity in the last decade in Canada thanks to our amazing international results. I come from a small community of ~ 12,000 that has not produced any international-level figure skaters but has produced several NHL hockey players. The infrastructure for developing hockey skills in our region is amazing – not so much superior figure skating skills – its easy for our girls to tap into those and become very skilled hockey players. We are also producing excellent short and long track speedskaters in many regions of the country as well as world medallist snowboarders and skiers. Luge and bobsledding is also increasing in popularity and success.
There may be thousands of young female figure skaters who dream of being able to skate like Katelyn Osmond or Gabby Daleman; however, most either don’t have the physical aptitude, the access to superior coaching, or their parents are unable or unwilling to invest in anything beyond recreational skating opportunities.
This isn’t a bad thing – we need to keep skating accessible to all children, to keep them active and engaged. This involves low-cost ice time along with good learn-to-skate programs such as CanSkate, and lots of opportunities for recreational-level competitions. While identification and physical, mental and financial nurturing of children with superior skating ability is fine, it is only a fraction of the whole national figure skating picture. Having a decade between Joannie and Katelyn, isn’t a disaster for a country, as long as it is doing the other stuff right and not creating a program that focusses too much on the “1%” and not enough on the “99%”.
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- Mar 3, 2018
- Country
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2020 Canadian national pairs event: battle of the ladies who used to skate with Dylan Moscovitch.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
All of this. Which it makes it more notable when Canada was actually able to produce World medalists and a World champion given the current state of skating internationally where these countries are way more invested (in every sense of the word) into the success of their ladies skaters, compared to Canada.
You talk about arena ice availability - in Russia there's tons of rinks and same goes in Japan (the latter where they don't have to share with hockey players as much, I'd imagine)... Osmond trained in the skating rink inside West Edmonton mall.
Not if Evelyn has anything to say about it!
Or Julianne, if she can find a partner!
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
Kaetlyn spent a career being written off by some before becoming a World Champion and a skating icon, or a similar career path as Javier. Their predictions of low achievement, were proven to be false. No doubt there will be other falsehoods in the future.
Similar career path as Javier? I don't think so. Javier Fernandez started his senior competitive career in 2007 and ended it this season---that's 12 years of competitive history, including:
12 GP medals, 7 of them gold
2 GPF silver, 1 GPF bronze
7 European Championships
2 World Championships and 1 World bronze
1 Olympic bronze
What is truly outstanding about Javier is he started out skating in a country with zero history in figure skating and built a fantastic career.
Kaetlyn has had a great career, but she did it in a country with a long history of lofty achievements in figure skating. And her senior career so far spans 5 years, not 12.
12 GP medals, 7 of them gold
2 GPF silver, 1 GPF bronze
7 European Championships
2 World Championships and 1 World bronze
1 Olympic bronze
What is truly outstanding about Javier is he started out skating in a country with zero history in figure skating and built a fantastic career.
Kaetlyn has had a great career, but she did it in a country with a long history of lofty achievements in figure skating. And her senior career so far spans 5 years, not 12.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
Not if Evelyn has anything to say about it!
Evelyn and Trennt should be happy, because now Canada has a chance to get 3 pairs spots back for 2022.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Not if Evelyn has anything to say about it!
do you really think evelyn is in the mix? It would be nice if her teams develop but right now they almost look like placecard holders for Julianne or Lyubov.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
Every country has its “fluctuations” in figure skating talent and results. One can get a glimpse of that from the tables of medalists for past World Figure Skating Championships. When Irina Slutskaya retired after competing in Torino, the Russian ladies went from 3 spots in 2006 to 1 spot for both 2008 and 2009 Worlds. Alena Leonova was able to place in the Top 10 in 2009 to get the country back to 2 spots for Worlds and Olympics. She was also the only skater to get on the Worlds podium for Russia between 2006-2013. Glad she is still skating today, staying in the conversation, reminding fellow citizens that it’s possible to remain relevant as a female singles competitor in her late 20’s.
For the U.S., Ashley Wagner finally got on the podium in 2016 after a decade’s drought. In the 2 recent decades, the Japanese ladies have consistently placed on the podium but have also had years (most recently 2018), where they only had two spots. As for Canada, there was a drought after Joannie retired. The low point was in 2012, when Phaneuf and Lacoste were duking it out for that one spot. They both had their good qualities but they were both struggling that season. But the Canadian women, in the span of 6 years, led by Kaetlyn, Gabby, Alaine, managed to climb from one spot to two spots to the podium for two consecutive years. It’s not by fluke but rather a progression that we have three spots for two years in a row. Yes, we are unlikely to retain them this year. The injuries sustained by many of the Canadian women this season have played a major part in that outlook. Our seniors do in fact have 3Lz, 3F, and 3-3's but many of them have dialed back their programs for their long-term health. As a result, many of them aren't attempting a "7+2" free currently but they shouldn't be reduced to that only; there are many other skating qualities to admire, as others have already mentioned.
Just because the short-term outlook is not as favourable currently doesn't mean it will stay that way for long. As seen from the above examples, the cyclic nature of a country's figure skating success is not unique to Canada.
For the U.S., Ashley Wagner finally got on the podium in 2016 after a decade’s drought. In the 2 recent decades, the Japanese ladies have consistently placed on the podium but have also had years (most recently 2018), where they only had two spots. As for Canada, there was a drought after Joannie retired. The low point was in 2012, when Phaneuf and Lacoste were duking it out for that one spot. They both had their good qualities but they were both struggling that season. But the Canadian women, in the span of 6 years, led by Kaetlyn, Gabby, Alaine, managed to climb from one spot to two spots to the podium for two consecutive years. It’s not by fluke but rather a progression that we have three spots for two years in a row. Yes, we are unlikely to retain them this year. The injuries sustained by many of the Canadian women this season have played a major part in that outlook. Our seniors do in fact have 3Lz, 3F, and 3-3's but many of them have dialed back their programs for their long-term health. As a result, many of them aren't attempting a "7+2" free currently but they shouldn't be reduced to that only; there are many other skating qualities to admire, as others have already mentioned.
Just because the short-term outlook is not as favourable currently doesn't mean it will stay that way for long. As seen from the above examples, the cyclic nature of a country's figure skating success is not unique to Canada.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
Evelyn and Trennt had a rough 4CCs, but I for one was very impressed with their progress at nationals. They deserved their placement and are def. threats to repeat regardless of the changing landscape.
Wasn't there chatter a few weeks back by some that Canada was depleted in Pairs, and now it looks like we could have at least 5 solid teams competing for podiums in the next few.
Wasn't there chatter a few weeks back by some that Canada was depleted in Pairs, and now it looks like we could have at least 5 solid teams competing for podiums in the next few.
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