2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 151 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

thatbeatingheart

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Country
Germany
If you’re able to see this as „your perception“, then maybe it’s worth it to stop calling people out for having „their own perceptions“ of this issue, and not blaming them for some „bias“?

Btw, the right word for that would be „being petty“, not „coping with trauma“.

?? I was trying to make peace and you're being impolite. I'm not calling anyone out for their opinion but the way it is expressed, especially when people try to present their opinion as a fact. Sorry if it sounded like I was doing just that, since English is not my first language I sometimes have trouble finding the correct words.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Since when Daniil is a Russian lady and we have to discuss him for 20 pages in this thread? Make a different thread and write whatever you want there. I'm not coming to this thread for Daniil, or whatever Daniil or mojo, pojo, jojo and I don't know who else.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Well, it surely would be better for Daniil‘s reputation if he just paid Jojo for her work and Alina would be able to use the program again. It would also save the time they‘d need to choreograph another exhibition program. I know these kind of programs are done more quickly than normal competitive ones but it‘s still the middle of the off-season and they are probably busy as it is. I don‘t know if realistically there can be a fairytale ending of them all being friends, but it would indeed be kind of cool if this got solved and they‘d work together in the future.

I was just selfishly hoping Daniil would make something unique and new because I don‘t like the way Jojo‘s choreography looks on the ice and am no fan of it in general. So, I think I‘d like his own work more than the one he took from someone else. :slink: :laugh:

Even if his choreography for bad guy is better than hers I would still prefer at this point the patch things up with Jojo and involve her somehow with bad guy and pay her for that give her credit for that and do a photo opp. But it's out of his hands now and in another woman's hands not named Jojo or Alina.
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Speaking of Zhenya What do you think are her chances of making the Grand Prix final next season? I would say they're 50/50 right now. Such competition out there. Incredible. I certainly expect her to go into next season in much better form compared to last season. And if Evgenia is at good health conditions I would go over 50%.

This is a chance to change the topic and make this a sane Sunday!

It‘s no secret that I‘m a Zhenya fan. But still, if I look at this realistically, I do see that it will be very, very hard indeed. She has tough competition at both of her events and while I do think that she‘s absolutely capable of getting two medals, the question is where the cut off will be. Last season, a silver and a bronze were enough to make it to the final. Will it this season? We shall see. I‘m a bit hesitant. I think we‘ll see the ladies senior GP move in the direction juniors did. And there, as we all know, sometimes two silvers aren‘t even enough...

What‘s most important for Zhenya, I think, is that she‘s mentally ready. she needs to compete with the determination and focus she had at Worlds. Her technical content is much lower than that of Sasha and Rika but with high TES there often also is risk involved. Zhenya has absolutely no room for mistakes and she needs to be squeaky clean every time she steps onto the ice. I don‘t want to put any chances or predictions out there as of now because a lot will depend on pure luck. How the others do at their event, how and whether the quad girls land their ultra-c elements. The only thing Zhenya can and should do is compete at her very best. The rest we will see.
 

Lunalovesskating

Moonbear power 🐻
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Speaking of Zhenya What do you think are her chances of making the Grand Prix final next season? I would say they're 50/50 right now. Such competition out there. Incredible. I certainly expect her to go into next season in much better form compared to last season. And if Evgenia is at good health conditions I would go over 50%.

This is a chance to change the topic and make this a sane Sunday!

I think it is depends on how her biggest competitiors perform. I think she definitley has a shot at getting silver at CoR and even gold depending on Sasha's performance, but my bet is on silver as Sasha does not have to deal with Jetlag there. At Skate Canada it also depends on Rika's, Sasha's, Bradie's and even Young You's performance (Young You has been training 3A and several Quads since last year now). I think Evgenia has a definite shot at bronze and maybe even silver or gold at SC if everyone has a splat feast, Ice is slippery as we saw at IdF where all the ladies underperformed. If she gets silver at CoR and bronze at SC I think she has a shot at GPF, depending on which medals the other's collect. As we saw from JGP last season two silver medals are sometimes not even enough to get into the final. It always depends on the other skater's performances at the different cups and which medals they end up with.
 

ankifeather

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Quote Originally Posted by Scott512 View Post
That is a very interesting and intriguing question.

Do figure skaters pay the creators of the music they are skating to be able to skate to said music? And if the figure skater cannot afford to pay that does the Federation? I would think not. But this topic has gotten me thinking about things I've never thought about before.
I bet this is solved through the copyright collective agencies. Never paid attention to how this works in figure skating but from my law experience with similar matters it is done this way. Those who use some piece of art on regular basis for their activities pass the list of used art to such agency and pay a fee from which the rights owners are rewarded. I bet it is centralized in some way and it goes through ISU, like skaters send the list to ISU and ISU deals with copyright agencies (or on national level with national skating fed). Or, that is how I would arrange it as a lawyer :)

I think skaters have to pay for the music they are skating to themselves (if said music is copyrighted). I highly doubt there is a central ISU team paying for or clearing music copyrights as otherwise Kevin Reynolds last year wouldn't have to change his free skate music last minute because his original choice, music by Joe Hisaishi (Japan famous music composer) didn't get Hisaishi's permission to skate to his music. Another example is Hanyu himself - his program Hope and Legacy used Joe Hisaishi's music, so he cannot skate to it again because he only got permission from the composer to use it for the 2016/17 season.

That is another reason why warhorses are popular, you don't need to spend more money on paying the music composer for the right since there is no copyright on century old music.

Since when Daniil is a Russian lady and we have to discuss him for 20 pages in this thread? Make a different thread and write whatever you want there. I'm not coming to this thread for Daniil, or whatever Daniil or mojo, pojo, jojo and I don't know who else.

But he choreographs or had done so for the majority of Russian ladies on this thread.
 

esteticlove

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Speaking of Zhenya What do you think are her chances of making the Grand Prix final next season? I would say they're 50/50 right now. Such competition out there. Incredible. I certainly expect her to go into next season in much better form compared to last season. And if Evgenia is at good health conditions I would go over 50%.

This is a chance to change the topic and make this a sane Sunday!

I am more pessimistic but I would be happy to be surprised positively. We just have to admit that the current field is very very strong now, there aren't just Alina Zagitova and Rika Kihira to overcome, but also Trusova, Schsherbakova and Kostornaya. In my point of view, Zhenya passed the point for upgrading her TES, which was the 2016/17 season. Since then, she's fighting with time because with every 6 months new super juniors are coming behind her. Still, seeing her jumps from the last shows leaves me positive that at least they seem more stable than the ones from last season. She also seems to be more accustomed to the new changes in her skating and should be feeling more confident to try out new things. Also, her 149-something points from Worlds for the free skate with one or two URs is an indicator that if she's clean and add more transitions/choreographic content to her programs, she still has good chances to get scores in the 150s again.
 

Grin

Medalist
Joined
May 17, 2017
Okay I wanted this to end but looks like it's not going to.Imo people should stop defending Danil.I was shocked how people react to this.Even how the law is,One thing I know for sure is copying is just wrong.If this was not revealed,he wouldn't apologize for this.Seriously He is a thief.Why are you defending a thief?I could at least tolerate if other people did this.But Danil is a choreographer who knows how hard work is and he is doing for many students.How could he do this as a choreographer?Before this there was a fight.He should be more careful to choreograph this than usual.
I doubt there would be more copied choreography as he even did this in such situation.If people find out another copied choreography,he should be fired.

Okay. I found some Maya Plisetskaya's moves in Alina's Carmen. Eteri should fire Daniil ASAP.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
It‘s no secret that I‘m a Zhenya fan. But still, if I look at this realistically, I do see that it will be very, very hard indeed. She has tough competition at both of her events and while I do think that she‘s absolutely capable of getting two medals, the question is where the cut off will be. Last season, a silver and a bronze were enough to make it to the final. Will it this season? We shall see. I‘m a bit hesitant. I think we‘ll see the ladies senior GP move in the direction juniors did. And there, as we all know, sometimes two silvers aren‘t even enough...

What‘s most important for Zhenya, I think, is that she‘s mentally ready. she needs to compete with the determination and focus she had at Worlds. Her technical content is much lower than that of Sasha and Rika but with high TES there often also is risk involved. Zhenya has absolutely no room for mistakes and she needs to be squeaky clean every time she steps onto the ice. I don‘t want to put any chances or predictions out there as of now because a lot will depend on pure luck. How the others do at their event, how and whether the quad girls land their ultra-c elements. The only thing Zhenya can and should do is compete at her very best. The rest we will see.

Well said. The question now is why aren't they expanding the field even if it's only to say two more spots? Yes you would have to do that with all four disciplines and maybe even with the Junior Grand Prix final. But so what. Figure skating is a big business and the ladies as a group all right huge draw now. Go into 8 slots would make things better.

It would be hard to believe if some lady got two silver medals in the Grand Prix series and did not make the Grand Prix final. That's another reason they need to expand their field.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
I am more pessimistic but I would be happy to be surprised positively. We just have to admit that the current field is very very strong now, there aren't just Alina Zagitova and Rika Kihira to overcome, but also Trusova, Schsherbakova and Kostornaya. In my point of view, Zhenya passed the point for upgrading her TES, which was the 2016/17 season. Since then, she's fighting with time because with every 6 months new super juniors are coming behind her. Still, seeing her jumps from the last shows leaves me positive that at least they seem more stable than the ones from last season. She also seems to be more accustomed to the new changes in her skating and should be feeling more confident to try out new things. Also, her 149-something points from Worlds for the free skate with one or two URs is an indicator that if she's clean and add more transitions/choreographic content to her programs, she still has good chances to get scores in the 150s again.
Evgenia may have carryover from her performance at Worlds winning the bronze medal and scoring so well in the free skate. She will be going into next season with more confidence than last season that should help a lot.

Well the question is will Eteris Angels dominate like they did in juniors right off the bat as seniors? That would be hard to believe but I guess it's possible. Will judges hold them back at all because they're just beginning their senior careers?
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
?? I was trying to make peace and you're being impolite. I'm not calling anyone out for their opinion but the way it is expressed, especially when people try to present their opinion as a fact. Sorry if it sounded like I was doing just that, since English is not my first language I sometimes have trouble finding the correct words.

erm... yeah, definitely speaking on the internet makes things appear worse than they are, it appeared to me as if you're the impolite one.
Maybe it's just in my mind I read (and perceived) it differently than how you wrote it.
Well, okay no beef ;). Maybe next time we should speak in german, we'll definitely understand each other better :biggrin:
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Well said. The question now is why aren't they expanding the field even if it's only to say two more spots? Yes you would have to do that with all four disciplines and maybe even with the Junior Grand Prix final. But so what. Figure skating is a big business and the ladies as a group all right huge draw now. Go into 8 slots would make things better.

It would be hard to believe if some lady got two silver medals in the Grand Prix series and did not make the Grand Prix final. That's another reason they need to expand their field.

A bit off-topic but wasn‘t the GPF originally with 8 skaters? I wonder why they cut it. It probably became too expensive. You have to think that warm-ups would be difficult too. Normally it‘s 6 skaters in a warm-up and even this can get crowded. So, what to do if you have eight? Push them into one warm-up and risk injuries? Or hold a separate warm-up for two skaters/team? And who decides who these two skaters are going to be?

I‘d be very happy if they expanded the GPF slot but I don‘t think it‘s likely to happen. There must have been a reason why they went from 8 to 6 in the first place.

We don‘t know whether the scenario with the two silvers not making GPF will happen or not but since it has before in juniors, it led me to believe we may experience something similar soon. But let‘s wait and see...
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
I think it is depends on how her biggest competitiors perform. I think she definitley has a shot at getting silver at CoR and even gold depending on Sasha's performance, but my bet is on silver as Sasha does not have to deal with Jetlag there. At Skate Canada it also depends on Rika's, Sasha's, Bradie's and even Young You's performance (Young You has been training 3A and several Quads since last year now). I think Evgenia has a definite shot at bronze and maybe even silver or gold at SC if everyone has a splat feast, Ice is slippery as we saw at IdF where all the ladies underperformed. If she gets silver at CoR and bronze at SC I think she has a shot at GPF, depending on which medals the other's collect. As we saw from JGP last season two silver medals are sometimes not even enough to get into the final. It always depends on the other skater's performances at the different cups and which medals they end up with.
Yes Zhenya got very tough Grand Prix assignments. Like you said she has to be in good form and a lot of it will depend on her competitors and how clean they are or are not. Because as we know programs with quads and triple axels is very hard and it's hard to stay clean doing quads and triple axels.

It's going to be the most highly-anticipated grand preseason for the ladies I can ever remember. The excitement will be palpable whatever that means. ;)
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Good for Alina. Not so good for Danil. Ouch. Jojo really got him by the nuts and won't let go. Lol. I guess his public apology to her was not enough.

I think bringing JoJo to Japan so she can work with Alina would be even more emasculating for Danil than JoJo pounding him publicly is even after he apologized publicly. But thanks to Jojo for taking Alina off the hook publicly. It is an unfortunate situation.

For those of us who adore Alina and like her team we all know Danil did something wrong here. There is no cover-up going on.

He “did something wrong” but JoJo “got him by the nuts”? She’s “emasculating” him? Do you not understand how wrong it is to characterize what happened this way?
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Well the question is will Eteris Angels dominate like they did in juniors right off the bat as seniors? That would be hard to believe but I guess it's possible. Will judges hold them back at all because they're just beginning their senior careers?

I am worried for Alyona.
In her first event I don't expect the judges to give her 'senior' level PCS, they're not going to do that in her senior debut performance. She'll probably get 69-70, which is quite good!
At the same time, she meets with Alina and Kaori, both of whom are gettin 74+ in PCS, so if all three skate clean, Alyona will only get a bronze at best. And even if Kaori will have a pop, like she did at worlds, she's still going to get 145+, and I don't think clean Alyona in her first event will get those scores.

In her second event, again, even if she'll get some PCS boost this time, she's going against Rika on home soil (and Rika being the main japanese lady right now, will definitely be held up by the judges) and Alina, who's the OG, and she only needs to go clean to win against clean Alyona, since both TES and PCS of Alina will be higher.

With 2 possible bronzes in this scenario, she might miss GPF =/

There are too many ladies I want to make it to GPF, way more than 6. Would be so much better if ISU considered expanding the number of GPF qualifiers, because it can actually make the event even more popular if all those star ladies were able to make it into the final.
On the other hand, I'm trying to persuade myself, than GPF is no biggie, there's still some time before olympics for things to work out for other skaters. :biggrin:
 

micks

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Okay. I found some Maya Plisetskaya's moves in Alina's Carmen. Eteri should fire Daniil ASAP.
The program "Carmen" uses music from "Carmen-suite". There is a reference to the ballet. The choreography for "BG" was copied not from the song movie, but from a third-party choreography without reference to the source.
 

Vandevska

U don't have to build the end of the world out it.
Medalist
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
I am worried for Alyona.
In her first event I don't expect the judges to give her 'senior' level PCS, they're not going to do that in her senior debut performance. She'll probably get 69-70, which is quite good!
At the same time, she meets with Alina and Kaori, both of whom are gettin 74+ in PCS, so if all three skate clean, Alyona will only get a bronze at best. And even if Kaori will have a pop, like she did at worlds, she's still going to get 145+, and I don't think clean Alyona in her first event will get those scores.

In her second event, again, even if she'll get some PCS boost this time, she's going against Rika on home soil (and Rika being the main japanese lady right now, will definitely be held up by the judges) and Alina, who's the OG, and she only needs to go clean to win against clean Alyona, since both TES and PCS of Alina will be higher.

With 2 possible bronzes in this scenario, she might miss GPF =/

There are too many ladies I want to make it to GPF, way more than 6. Would be so much better if ISU considered expanding the number of GPF qualifiers, because it can actually make the event even more popular if all those star ladies were able to make it into the final.
On the other hand, I'm trying to persuade myself, than GPF is no biggie, there's still some time before olympics for things to work out for other skaters. :biggrin:

I really hope Alena gets a challenger before the GP starts, if she does well it will help her a lot in terms of scores. I'd love to see her in the GPF [I'd love to see all of them in the GPF though :biggrin:]
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
I am worried for Alyona.
In her first event I don't expect the judges to give her 'senior' level PCS, they're not going to do that in her senior debut performance. She'll probably get 69-70, which is quite good!
At the same time, she meets with Alina and Kaori, both of whom are gettin 74+ in PCS, so if all three skate clean, Alyona will only get a bronze at best. And even if Kaori will have a pop, like she did at worlds, she's still going to get 145+, and I don't think clean Alyona in her first event will get those scores.

In her second event, again, even if she'll get some PCS boost this time, she's going against Rika on home soil (and Rika being the main japanese lady right now, will definitely be held up by the judges) and Alina, who's the OG, and she only needs to go clean to win against clean Alyona, since both TES and PCS of Alina will be higher.

With 2 possible bronzes in this scenario, she might miss GPF =/

There are too many ladies I want to make it to GPF, way more than 6. Would be so much better if ISU considered expanding the number of GPF qualifiers, because it can actually make the event even more popular if all those star ladies were able to make it into the final.
On the other hand, I'm trying to persuade myself, than GPF is no biggie, there's still some time before olympics for things to work out for other skaters. :biggrin:

I definitely agree about everything you‘ve said and I‘ve actually expressed the same worries here... But Alyona did get a score of 141 in the FS at the JGPF and that was without the choreographic sequence... So, she should be able to reach 145, if clean. Let‘s hope the judges award her PCS properly (because she’s much better in this aspect than both Alina and Kaori, imo) and she stays clean. That‘s the only thing she can do.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Well the question is will Eteris Angels dominate like they did in juniors right off the bat as seniors? That would be hard to believe but I guess it's possible. Will judges hold them back at all because they're just beginning their senior careers?

I'm more incline that they won't. As for the second question, yes I think they will hold them back.
 
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