How to raise attendance at ISU events

andromache said:

Even if you're not a fan of certain disciplines, if you're buying the All-Event ticket, you should go to all of the events. Getting to see skating live in ANY discipline, especially at certain big events, is an incredible privilege and it frustrates me when I think about people who buy All-Event tickets and just let their seats stay empty for some events. Someone could have been lucky enough to have that seat - you (not YOU-you, but general you) are the lucky one ,and you're wasting it.

Then again, I'll admit I am saying this as someone in the Midwest with pretty limited means for most of my life - can't afford to travel, can't afford tickets to events (let alone all event tickets). I'm somewhat more fortunate than I used to be so I am budgeting so hard for Montreal 2020 and I'm going to be livid if I am unable to get tickets for whatever reason and there are people just letting their tickets go to waste.

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Agreed. And yes, it is a considerable effort to see every skater in every event, but with an all-event pass, you should make the effort to see every discipline - or at least see every skater in the segment you're watching. Sure, at Worlds with like 36 skaters that's harder to do, but at events with like 12-20 skaters, it's sad to see the first flight have a smaller audience than the flights with the popular skaters. It's a matter of coming to the arena like an hour earlier. But hey, everyone's got their own prerogative to watch or not. But I don't put people who only come to watch one or two skaters on par, in terms of being true skating fans, compared to people who give the rest of the field the respect of watching them.

Why stratify skating fans at all other than to insult people you don't like or look down on them from your moral high ground? If you want to increase interest in skating, there's a lot more you can do than constantly trying to antagonize skating fans (or "skater fans") on internet forums. Write to the ISU to encourage them to make their content more accessible, create content that makes pairs/ID more understandable to first time fans, bake cookies...

narcissa said:

Why stratify skating fans at all other than to insult people you don't like, or to enjoy a moral high ground? If you want to increase interest in skating, there's a lot more you can do than constantly trying to antagonize skating fans (or skater fans) on internet forums.

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I was merely expressing my opinion and was certainly not attacking anyone on this forum. If someone takes offense because of my opinion being that I personally have greater respect for fans who appreciate a breadth of skaters and disciplines (which is important in the context of 4CC attendance), they can take my expressing my opinion with a grain of salt. My opinion that is "stratifying skating fans", to use your words, was making the point that in order to increase interest in skating, organizers need to do more than just hype just the big names who show up -- because should they fail to show up (withdraw due to injury or skipping the event or not qualifying for the event), then you've got all these fans who were only going to show up to see them frantically trying to sell tickets or eat the cost, and the likelihood is that this compromises the event's audience viewership (again, using Sochi men's SP as an example).

To the earlier point about 4CC, they also need to make it affordable so that fans CAN afford to see more disciplines instead of just one or two segments/disciplines. Having an audience of fans primarily interested in one skater/discipline is more volatile than having an audience who are interested and committed to watching many. If you get more fans interested in multiple disciplines and multiple skaters, then you will get more fans showing up to events (instead of only events where their faves are). If an event is putting all their eggs in one or two baskets, then they are setting themselves up for a disaster if these skaters withdraw from the competition.

Of course you can't force people to watch every skater/discipline, but maybe consider promoting various skaters instead of just a subset of them. Showcase Michael Christian Martinez's Biellman, or Kevin Aymoz's aerial cartwheel, or interesting skills/qualities from some of the lesser known skaters. As mentioned, these are all elite skaters. Obviously, promote the big names, but share the love and get people excited to watch more than just the big names.

It’s not a moral high ground, ultimately ticket buyers can do whatever they like. This is skating we’re talking about not politics. I can only speak for myself and I just thought the empty seats were a bit sad is all.

I am sorry if I offended, didn’t mean to.

DSQ said:

It’s not a moral high ground, ultimately ticket buyers can do whatever they like. This is skating we’re talking about not politics. I can only speak for myself and I just thought the empty seats were a bit sad is all.

I am sorry if I offended, didn’t mean to.

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I understand, I wasn't talking about you.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

I consider those who watch all disciplines to be truer skating fans

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Oh my.... Is this figure skating or Harry Potter fandom on ice??? Honestly, the number of times I have heard THAT argument in various fandoms over the years - the sniffing over what makes a 'true' fan was annoying enough in the more feral media/music fandoms, and they were big (and feral) enough to get away with trying to gatekeep.

People have a perfect right to use their own hard-earned money (to buy whatever products they want or can get if they are willing to and others aren't) or often scarce time (to see whichever skating they want around a personal life we have no right to assume should take a back seat) any damn way they want to, especially given the financial support some of them are pouring into what everyone keeps complaining is a dying sport. If only some form of hallowed 'true' fans are supposed to go to competitions for fear that their seats may show up on TV as unclaimed at times...

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

It's especially unfortunate if someone bought an all-events ticket just so they could watch one or two skaters/disciplines, which again, is their prerogative, but in the process denied someone who actually wanted to see all 4 disciplines a seat, resulting in emptier stands for those disciplines. :disapp:

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Ummmmm, right - especially given that the reason the exorbitant ticket prices had to be slashed was because not enough of those 'someones' wanted to see all 4 disciplines enough to stump up for them first...

andromache said:

Even if you're not a fan of certain disciplines, if you're buying the All-Event ticket, you should go to all of the events. Getting to see skating live in ANY discipline, especially at certain big events, is an incredible privilege

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No. No this isn't The Last Night of the Proms and it really really isn't a privilege any more than a football grand final is. You might as well argue that footie followers who only go to their own teams' games, home and away, are not 'true' football fans... but don't say it too loud at the grounds, I suggest.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

I was expressing my opinion, and my opinion is that in order to increase interest in skating, organizers need to do more than just hype just the big names who show up -- because should they fail to show up (withdraw due to injury or skipping the event or not qualifying for the event), then you've got all these fans who were only going to show up to see them, then the event falls apart in audience viewership (again, using Sochi as an example).

To the earlier point about 4CC, they also need to make it affordable so that fans CAN afford to see more disciplines instead of just one or two segments/disciplines. If you get more fans interested in multiple disciplines and multiple skaters, then you will get more fans showing up to events (instead of only events where their faves are). If an event is putting all their eggs in one or two baskets, then they are setting themselves up for a disaster if these skaters withdraw from the competition.

Of course you can't force people to watch every skater/discipline, but maybe consider promoting various skaters instead of just a subset of them. Showcase Michael Christian Martinez's Biellman, or Kevin Aymoz's aerial cartwheel, or interesting skills/qualities from some of the lesser known skaters. As mentioned, these are all elite skaters. Obviously, promote the big names, but share the love and get people excited to watch more than just the big names.

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I agree. Don't get me started about the way NBC promotes athletes. I thought it was a bit sad during the Sochi Olympics how much NBC promoted the ladies and how much casual audiences were surprised when our ladies fell short of the medals. Not to mention the "pretty princess" narrative they crafted and how that turned out for Gracie. As for Pyeongchang, the hype was so over the top that when Nathan completely bombed the short, lots of people just never tuned into the long. If NBC had also promoted, say, the comeback of Yuzuru Hanyu, the charm of Javier Fernandez, the beautiful jumps of Boyang Jin, etc. then maybe they wouldn't have acted like Nathan owed them a gold medal.

That being said, I do believe the ISU does an absolutely horrendous job of marketing skating to the demographic that they need to market to the most -- millennials and Gen Z'ers (the internet generations) -- and it has very little to do with hyping the big names of skating. First and foremost, I'd say they should listen to their customers. (For all of our sakes I hope "Telling them they're not good enough to be skating fans" isn't on their to-do )

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

My point was that certain fans only showed up to watch the men's (or, in some cases, just Hanyu). It's totally their prerogative to watch whoever and however many skaters/disciplines they want to watch, but I consider those who watch all disciplines to be truer skating fans than those who show up to watch just a handful of skaters in one discipline (and some of them probably just one flight at that). Hence my distinction between skating fans and skater fans.

It's especially unfortunate if someone bought an all-events ticket just so they could watch one or two skaters/disciplines, which again, is their prerogative, but in the process denied someone who actually wanted to see all 4 disciplines a seat, resulting in emptier stands for those disciplines. :disapp:

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And I consider actual skaters the truest fans of skating....but...oh wait. A lot of skaters actually don't watch all four disciplines.

Ridiculous gatekeeping.

Can't believe I came back to nonsense like this. I really should've known better. :hslap:

shiroKJ said:

And I consider actual skaters the truest fans of skating....but...oh wait. A lot of skaters actually don't watch all four disciplines.

Ridiculous gatekeeping.

Can't believe I came back to nonsense like this. I really should've known better. :hslap:

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I had said this in the context of attendance for events, like 4CC which struggled with attendance, and that if you promote the sport in lieu of primarily particular skaters, and encourage people to gain greater appreciation for a breadth of skaters and disciplines, then your attendance is bound to go higher. I also think it's a valid opinion to say that those who are interested in multiple disciplines are fans of skating moreso than those who aren't, and didn't me to offend - you're definitely welcome to disagree. It's the same with any sport - if you're only a fan of Lebron James, you're not really as much of a basketball fan compared to those who watch and appreciate the variety of talent/teams across the NBA. And the NBA does a great job of promoting franchise players along with other members of the NBA (I know, it's a team sport so it's apples and oranges, but the sentiment of stimulating interest by various players stands). And the smartest NBA teams promote a variety of their players so if their star player is injured or has to sit out, fans will still show up and will still pay to watch games.

It's fine if someone's just a fan of a skater, and it's their prerogative to show up to watch just that skater. However, it's a potential problem for organizers if a great deal of fans are like this, because attendance/interest is contingent on particular entry(ies). When team Canada got knocked out of the World Junior Hockey Championships in Canada recently, or when team Russia got knocked out of men's hockey in Sochi, it was a huge attendance issue for the organizers/sponsors/TV stations, because the focus/interest was primarily on the home team's success.

narcissa said:

I agree. Don't get me started about the way NBC promotes athletes. I thought it was a bit sad during the Sochi Olympics how much NBC promoted the ladies and how much casual audiences were surprised when our ladies fell short of the medals. Not to mention the "pretty princess" narrative they crafted and how that turned out for Gracie. As for Pyeongchang, the hype was so over the top that when Nathan completely bombed the short, lots of people just never tuned into the long. If NBC had also promoted, say, the comeback of Yuzuru Hanyu, the charm of Javier Fernandez, the beautiful jumps of Boyang Jin, etc. then maybe they wouldn't have acted like Nathan owed them a gold medal.

That being said, I do believe the ISU does an absolutely horrendous job of marketing skating to the demographic that they need to market to the most -- millennials and Gen Z'ers (the internet generations) -- and it has very little to do with hyping the big names of skating. First and foremost, I'd say they should listen to their customers. (For all of our sakes I hope "Telling them they're not good enough to be skating fans" isn't on their to-do )

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This is true, but every network promotes their home skaters far greater than international skaters (I mean, the pressure on Lipnitskaia after she slayed in the Team event). USA in particular is one of the more competitive countries, so of course they'll hype their skaters.

Everyone wants their skaters to win at the Olympics. It means prestige not just for the skaters, but also the country - particularly because it generates greater interest in the sport/discipline in that country. But in the inbetween years, the ISU and skating feds need to consider how to build excitement beyond just the home/popular skaters. If your viewership is contingent on a handful of skaters being healthy and active and consistently performing as well as they can, that can easily be compromised if these skaters get injured or withdraw or fail to qualify for an event (or place low in a segment as you pointed out with Nathan's Olympic SP). It's simple math, the more people you have that are interested in more skaters and more disciplines, the more viewership. So from a sustainability standpoint, it makes sense to invest in fans building an overall interest in skating and various skaters/disciplines. Prolific skaters like Kwan, Asada, Kim, Plushenko, Virtue/Moir, and Hanyu aren't around forever, so the ISU and respective federations need to generate more interest across the board to continue to be financially viable.

To use another team-sports analogy, teams need to also develop your bench/second-string players on their roster, so if your star player(s) is injured or having an off night, you can still manage to win. The ISU should view every skater as having potential value and stimulate greater interest in a variety of skaters/disciplines, instead of relying on a select few to bring home the bacon.

All these comments about making an effort to go to every event or otherwise you are not a true skating fan, without understanding the full circumstances are just, no offence, so self-righteous. It is impossible to get any decent seats unless you buy full events tickets. You have to be in front of your computer in the first 15 minutes of sales opening. Both Helsinki and RoC were a blood bath - decent seats were gone in minutes. The all events tickets were seriously expensive ($700+ for good seats) and no one wants to spend extra money on disciplines they are uninterested in, but greedy ISU forced them to.

Lots of people tried to sell the portion of events they were uninterested in, or even give it out for free, but no "dancing & pairs" fans took up the offer. Hence, even if people were not forced to buy all events tickets, the dancing and pairs events wouldn't have sold more single tickets anyways, otherwise why did such 'fans' not took up the free tickets? If anything, judging by the amount of people with winnie the pooh decorations sitting in the dancing and pairs events, they already contributed to a greater turnout for pairs and dancing then would otherwise been the case if only single tickets were on sale.

The day starts at 7am in the morning with practice and ends at 9pm with Ice Dance. To get good seats for practice, you have to line up at 6am in the morning outside the stadium in minus degree temperature. There is only limited break between each OP and competition events. People need to have proper lunch and dinner, and given it can cost a fortune like 2000+ on plane tickets to fly in from Asia (or in my case Australia), they would like to fit in sightseeing of a foreign city too, in which case the only time they could do it is during an event they are less interested in. Otherwise there is no time to eat at all, and people actually work and cannot take extra annual leave above the 4 days for the events already.

Hence, are you suggesting people should sit in a freezing ice rink from 7am to 9pm (14 hours) and not eat and not budge at all otherwise they are not a true skating fan? I personally did not want to waste my all events tickets so I tried to show up at ever events, but the problem is I have family with me too. By 7pm, they are all tired, hungry, need dinner and get out of the cold. I cannot force the group to stay for Ice dance at 8pm even if I want. As a result of going, I became a fan of more skaters, like Kaori was my new found love. The early flight skaters were pretty bad skater with just terrible falls after falls. It is actually painful to watch not from an aesthetic view, but simply because you are having heart attacks every second. I can understand why people do not want to put themselves through this experience.

Hence, I have serious problem people claiming people spending money, time and effort to to fly to the other side of the world and freezing themselves for 8+ hours are lesser fans than people sitting at home complaining about bad turnouts for pairs and dance. If you are really concerned about the turnouts, take up one of the free tickets on offer and go to the event. But of course you won't, because that is not truly what you are concerned about.

Lastly as already noted, the Finnish papers and Russian papers all posted articles about the huge turnout for Helsinki and RoC, and Finnish federation mentioned the Japanese fans brought 8 million worth of tourism economy during the four days. At least such 'fans' are contributing money to ISU and to the hosting country that all goes into promoting skating in the future. I am sure at least in ISU's view,they are much truer fans.

chopinskate said:

<Did you mean "empathise"?> I get it, that's one part I don't like either. Getting in after the first few flights, and getting out after the fave's done. It's disrespectful in any spectator-based activity, and heck you're wasting your own money. But saying someone isn't a "true skating fan" because they don't see watch the disciplines is nonsense, as is criticising someone for turning up only if a fave at an event.

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I never said those people aren't skating fans. I only said that people who are actually interested in watching a variety of disciplines and respecting the field of skaters in a discipline/segment are, to me, greater fans of the sport in general. To my earlier point, it can actually lead to better attendance if your audience is fundamentally interested in seeing more than just one or two particular skaters. As in, the ISU should focus on creating fans of figure skating (across every discipline, if possible) and not just appealing to fans of specific figure skaters.

But glad you at least agree that getting in after a few flights and watching your fave and leaving is a waste and disrespectful to the rest of the skaters. To me, that tells me that person is less of a fan of figure skating and more a fan of a figure skater -- if they were a fan of figure skating, they would stay and give the other skaters the respect of watching their performances. It's like getting an all-access pass to a rock music festival, only seeing the one act you wanted to see, and calling yourself a true rock music fan.... I mean, you're still a fan - but you're not a fan the way someone who goes to see a variety of performers is. Someone who calls themselves a foodie doesn't stick to eating the same meal every day, and a self-proclaimed fashionista doesn't wear the same clothes either, etc. etc. etc.

andromache said:

Even if you're not a fan of certain disciplines, if you're buying the All-Event ticket, you should go to all of the events. Getting to see skating live in ANY discipline, especially at certain big events, is an incredible privilege and it frustrates me when I think about people who buy All-Event tickets and just let their seats stay empty for some events. Someone could have been lucky enough to have that seat - you (not YOU-you, but general you) are the lucky one ,and you're wasting it.

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No. Just no.

Sometimes it's the question of getting any tickets, sometimes it's a question of getting good tickets. If I had to sit in the upper bowl or in the last row on the short side, I'd rather not go at all because eyesight is poor. Good seats sell out as all-event usually really quickly. So I'm gonna get all-event even if I'm only really interested in singles. Even if have no intention of sitting through Short Dance at all and I'm only interest in the last flight of Pairs. Not sorry. Yeah, take it up with ISU. And you know what? I tried selling my spare tickets once. Nobody wanted them.

And, what, one SHOULD watch what one is not interested in? Short Dance is an epitome of boring to me, everybody dancing to similar music. I should just sit there for 4 hours looking at my mobile phone with earplugs in my ears to block the 15th tango when I could be out sightseeing the city? I don't think so.

About not being able to get a ticket, I wouldn't sweat too much about it: people always re-sell. Unless the venue itself puts anti-reselling precautions, like in Japan, you'll be able to get the tickets.

andromache said:

Even if you're not a fan of certain disciplines, if you're buying the All-Event ticket, you should go to all of the events. Getting to see skating live in ANY discipline, especially at certain big events, is an incredible privilege and it frustrates me when I think about people who buy All-Event tickets and just let their seats stay empty for some events. Someone could have been lucky enough to have that seat - you (not YOU-you, but general you) are the lucky one ,and you're wasting it.

Then again, I'll admit I am saying this as someone in the Midwest with pretty limited means for most of my life - can't afford to travel, can't afford tickets to events (let alone all event tickets). I'm somewhat more fortunate than I used to be so I am budgeting so hard for Montreal 2020 and I'm going to be livid if I am unable to get tickets for whatever reason and there are people just letting their tickets go to waste.

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I don't think I agree that fans should have to go to each event if they buy all-event tickets, but I'm totally in your corner as to why people wouldn't do it. Tickets are so damn expensive that it's mind boggling why anyone would let that much money just go to waste. Like you, I just don't have the means or courage to trash several hundred dollars without batting an eye. Maybe that's the difference for us. I might understand only going to certain events because you can't afford hotels for the entire week but so often you see a packed arena for a men's short in the morning, empty for ice dance in the evening, and then again packed for men the next day. Clearly people are in the city and just aren't going. It's even more confusing for Grand Prix events where they're all in the same day within a 4-5 hour span but the audience filters in and out.

And maybe I'll see you there in Montreal! I was there for gymnastics Worlds in 2017 and it was beautiful.

ankifeather said:

All these comments about making an effort to go to every event or otherwise you are not a true skating fan, without understanding the full circumstances are just, no offence, so self-righteous. It is impossible to get any decent seats unless you buy full events tickets.

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This is exactly why we bought the full event tickets and then sold the dance tickets and pairs short program. We wanted good seats to see the men's, ladies', pairs free, and the gala.

CanadianSkaterGuy is right that I'm not a 'true fan' and wouldn't be involved in this sport at all if my son weren't obsessed with it. But since my son is, we're doing stuff like this. I enjoyed watching the skating but I would not have normally spent this much money on it, no way. We spent a lot of money on tickets, then money on hotel and travel. It's odd the way this stuff is priced; I feel like a lot of people who are bigger fans than I am get priced out. And then there are empty seats. It's weird. BUT... there were cheap tickets on StubHub that people like me sold and there were tickets cheap here and even free tickets available.

My husband would have watched all the events like a 'true fan' but our kiddo only has so much patience and energy for this stuff. He loves watching the skating, but because he's a kid and he's a skater he just had to move more than would have been possible if he sat to watch all the events. So we came late to the events except the gala. That way our expectations of him to sit still were more limited, more realistic. Still... he had to leave his seat to just go jump and move sometimes. He ended up watching some skaters on the big screens up by concessions. It's kind of ridiculous to expect anyone to sit and watch everything. Like, do they have compression stockings on and are they taking baby aspirin or something? Because that much sitting is NOT healthy.

ankifeather said:

The early flight skaters were pretty bad skater with just terrible falls after falls. It is actually painful to watch not from an aesthetic view, but simply because you are having heart attacks every second. I can understand why people do not want to put themselves through this experience.

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This can happen in any flight (Worlds 2018 for example was an error fest, save for some like Nathan/Tomono/Vasilijevs). I get that less quality skating is a deterrent to watching earlier flights, which is fair, but there's something to be said about respecting the field of skaters instead of skipping flights because those skaters aren't as good as the putative favourites. There's something rather ironic about those who shows up to Four Continents intending to only watch skaters from Asia and North America - and only the prominent skating countries at that... and only their prominent skaters at that. Those were the people I was contrasting with - who could result in the dreaded empty seats if their faves don't show up (or any time their faves aren't skating).

Also I wasn't talking about fans at home, I was talking about actual attendees in the audience/spectators. Obviously someone who takes the effort to go to a skating competition live is a skating fan. To my earlier point, I'm not saying that you're not a skating fan if you don't show up for each and every segment/skater - obviously you don't have to be glued to your seat to be a skating fan. But I have more respect for those who are interested in watching various skaters across various disciplines, instead of just a handful. From the sounds of it, you/your family weren't there to just see one or two skaters, were you? And if you weren't so tired, you would have probably stuck around to see more disciplines. And it's awesome that you tried to sell tickets so that others can watch the other disciplines, but that certainly isn't the case with every all-access pass holder.

It's a fan's prerogative to see just one or a handful of skaters, but it poses a viewership issue when these people are compelled to buy all-access passes when they're only interested in just that. Of course, that's not their fault if the sales are such that you're confined to buying an all access pass, and that falls on the organizers who are then just trying to sell tickets and not fill seats (as pointed out, the 4CC organizers seemed to have gotten greedy, among other factors). If they were focussed more on event tickets than all-access then perhaps there would be less waste and you'd get more people showing up for pairs/ID (instead of relying on those who bought all-access tickets but only want to see 1 discipline to offer/sell it off). Of course, there's usually greater attendance in singles than pairs/ID but a system of all-access pass holders only wanting to see one discipline compounds the problem. If anything, the organizers are losing out on potential revenue, if someone with an all-access pass (which costs more than 8 individual event tickets) is willing to split it at-cost-per-discipline with other people. Not that an organizer would find it lucrative, but maybe there needs to be like a Tindr-style app where you can connect with figure skating fans who want to see particular segments, which you don't care to see, and you can transfer to them your all-access event pass.

Isn't complaining about fan attendance like putting a bandage on a gaping chest wound? The issue is getting figure skating the promotion prior to the event or building up interest through marketing so that people WANT to go to some or all of the disciplines. I suffer through dance. Until the final 10 couples I'm bored out of my mind. Having said that, I do enjoy the juniors and novice singles and pairs events because it gives me a chance to get familiar with the up and comers. But we always have all-event tickets and I/we sit there to support all of the skaters. That's our choice. I don't expect everyone to think the way I do.

Figure skating is in an uphill battle right now because there really aren't any big stars that attract the attention like there were with Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Michelle Kwan - etc. It's a vicious circle between the networks not caring so the public is uninterested so the networks don't care - yada! yada!

I went to 4CC with an all event pass and missed both pairs events and all but the last flight of the FD. I'm not sorry about either and frankly don't care if you think of me as a lesser fan for doing so. I personally prefer the singles disciplines. I always have. Singles, dance and pairs are, I think we can all agree, very different sports. I commend people who enjoy them all equally, but I never have. I'm not going to force myself to pretend otherwise to win anyone's approval. I chose to buy a full event pass because I was investing significant time, money and effort into flying 2,000+ miles to watch skating and wanted good seats. I also liked having the option of going to the other events and ended up going to both dance events anyway. Had they been in demand, I would have happily sold the tickets I didn't intend to use, but as others have pointed out no one wanted them.

Figure skating fandom is quite niche in America these days. Being pretentious to current fans and gatekeeping towards newer ones is the opposite of what the sport needs. If someone is willing to spend a lot of time and money to go see one discipline or one skater, great! How many passionate fans of the sport do you think Yuzuru Hanyu is going to leave behind when he retires? Just because those aren't the "best" or "truest" fans in some people's eyes doesn't mean they aren't good for the sport we all love.

VegMom said:

This is exactly why we bought the full event tickets and then sold the dance tickets and pairs short program. We wanted good seats to see the men's, ladies', pairs free, and the gala.

CanadianSkaterGuy is right that I'm not a 'true fan' and wouldn't be involved in this sport at all if my son weren't obsessed with it. But since my son is, we're doing stuff like this. I enjoyed watching the skating but I would not have normally spent this much money on it, no way. We spent a lot of money on tickets, then money on hotel and travel. It's odd the way this stuff is priced; I feel like a lot of people who are bigger fans than I am get priced out. And then there are empty seats. It's weird. BUT... there were cheap tickets on StubHub that people like me sold and there were tickets cheap here and even free tickets available.

My husband would have watched all the events like a 'true fan' but our kiddo only has so much patience and energy for this stuff. He loves watching the skating, but because he's a kid and he's a skater he just had to move more than would have been possible if he sat to watch all the events. So we came late to the events except the gala. That way our expectations of him to sit still were more limited, more realistic. Still... he had to leave his seat to just go jump and move sometimes. He ended up watching some skaters on the big screens up by concessions. It's kind of ridiculous to expect anyone to sit and watch everything. Like, do they have compression stockings on and are they taking baby aspirin or something? Because that much sitting is NOT healthy.

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Don't get me wrong, a "true fan" isn't about sitting there throughout the entire event. I wouldn't expect everyone to want to it be able to sit throughout every skater or discipline, particularly kids that can get even antsier than we do. But I'd say you and your fam are "true fans of figure skating" in that you went to go see a variety of skaters, and not necessarily just the favourites, or just one discipline. A favourite(s) might have pulled out of the competition but I'm sure you wouldn't have sold off your tickets, because you were there for your son's and for your own enjoyment of the event as a whole, and your experience wasn't entirely contingent on which skaters were competing (perhaps your son was looking forward to certain skaters) but it was more about enjoying the skating itself, as much as was possible - without needing a baby aspirin, lol. Sounds like you were there to enjoy figure skating with your family, and not primarily a particular skater(s), and while you didn't get to see all events you at least saw what you could and had a good time by the sounds of it.

OutsideEdge said:

I went to 4CC with an all event pass and missed both pairs events and all but the last flight of the FD. I'm not sorry about either and frankly don't care if you think of me as a lesser fan for doing so. I personally prefer the singles disciplines. I always have. Singles, dance and pairs are, I think we can all agree, very different sports. I commend people who enjoy them all equally, but I never have. I'm not going to force myself to pretend otherwise to win anyone's approval. I chose to buy a full event pass because I was investing significant time, money and effort into flying 2,000+ miles to watch skating and wanted good seats. I also liked having the option of going to the other events and ended up going to both dance events anyway. Had they been in demand, I would have happily sold the tickets I didn't intend to use, but as others have pointed out no one wanted them.

Figure skating fandom is quite niche in America these days. Being pretentious to current fans and gatekeeping towards newer ones is the opposite of what the sport needs. If someone is willing to spend a lot of time and money to go see one discipline or one skater, great! How many passionate fans of the sport do you think Yuzuru Hanyu is going to leave behind when he retires? Just because those aren't the "best" or "truest" fans in some people's eyes doesn't mean they aren't good for the sport we all love.

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I wasn't seeking your approval, nor would I expect you or anyone to seek mine. Your opinion is equally valid and we don't have to agree, nor do you have to apologize for anything. We're just randoms on an Internet forum expressing a variety of opinions about figure skating and there's no need to take things personally. There are probably people who think that if someone is not a fan of skater(s) X, or if you don't know the ins and outs of the scoring system, then you're not a real figure skating fan and those are (purely hypothetical!) opinions they're entitled to.

My point was that to solve the attendance issue, it would make sense for the ISU to come up with ways to make new fans of figure skating - across multiple disciplines - by promoting a greater variety of skaters and talents, instead of focusing primarily on the big name draws who are almost entirely singles skaters (and a big name's withdrawal or injury or decision not to compete could significantly affect the quality of audience on the day of the event). Of course the organizers already have the fans' money, but the optics look bad when the event ends up like "They sold out this out! ... so, why the empty seats?"

It's almost like the organizers know that some fans will buy tickets at pretty much whatever exorbitant price, if these fans think there's even a prospect of their fave(s) showing up... so the event sells out of individual discipline tickets and to still see the event people are compelled to buy all-event tickets and then have to figure out for themselves what to do with the disciplines they aren't interested in (or worse, what to do when the skater(s) they had hoped to be there isn't going to attend). This way, organizers help ensure that the pairs and dance events are "paid for" even if there aren't physical bums in seats. Shady, but smart of them. Caveat emptor and all. They didn't have a ton of attendance but I'm wondering if they still profited as expected and hit their metrics (since a sold ticket is a sold ticket regardless).

Seems like at 4CC they flew a little too close to the sun with the prices though given the impending variables that compromised attendance. With Hanyu injured early in the season, and perhaps people anticipating Chen to not compete at 4CC because of Yale, World champ Osmond taking the season off, Sui/Han competing being a question mark, and relatively low interest in dance in non-European countries, coupled with the crazy ticket prices, and having it on the west coast, hearing of low attendance is hardly surprising.