How to raise attendance at ISU events

[Bcash]

Isn't complaining about fan attendance like putting a bandage on a gaping chest wound? The issue is getting figure skating the promotion prior to the event or building up interest through marketing so that people WANT to go to some or all of the disciplines. I suffer through dance. Until the final 10 couples I'm bored out of my mind. Having said that, I do enjoy the juniors and novice singles and pairs events because it gives me a chance to get familiar with the up and comers. But we always have all-event tickets and I/we sit there to support all of the skaters. That's our choice. I don't expect everyone to think the way I do.

Figure skating is in an uphill battle right now because there really aren't any big stars that attract the attention like there were with Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Michelle Kwan - etc. It's a vicious circle between the networks not caring so the public is uninterested so the networks don't care - yada! yada!

Your point is certainly valid. I think the popularity of a sport like Figure Skating is quite cyclical. Federations and event organizers and Broadcasters are all operating within the confines of circumstances. I think Federations should always set their eyes on sowing the seeds for a broad talent base, out of which a field of depth can emerge, by ensuring support and access at the entry level. Event organizers can certainly be smarter and use up to date knowledge of the field competing and local (plus international) audience to increase attendance. In the US the "marketing" approach of the Broadcasters tends to push "personality" "rivalries" or tout"technical record" (Nathan Chen and his Quads), which can be effective for a moment, but the long-term effectiveness I'm not sure about. But then, it's not on the commercial broadcasters to think about long-term cultivation of broad interest in the sport.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Your point is certainly valid. I think the popularity of a sport like Figure Skating is quite cyclical. Federations and event organizers and Broadcasters are all operating within the confines of circumstances. I think Federations should always set their eyes on sowing the seeds for a broad talent base, out of which a field of depth can emerge, by ensuring support and access at the entry level. Event organizers can certainly be smarter and use up to date knowledge of the field competing and local (plus international) audience to increase attendance. In the US the "marketing" approach of the Broadcasters tends to push "personality" "rivalries" or tout"technical record" (Nathan Chen and his Quads), which can be effective for a moment, but the long-term effectiveness I'm not sure about. But then, it's not on the commercial broadcasters to think about long-term cultivation of broad interest in the sport.

Agreed. The broadcasters have their part to play though and part of that is about showing interest and generating interest in a variety of skaters. Like, Tursynbaeva trying a quad is a big deal and that's a good opportunity for a commentator to talk about how ladies skating is slated to technically shoot forward in the next quadrennial. There are plenty of opportunities to talk about the new system, etc. For the men they can hype up Worlds by pointing out how many personal bests there were - including a FS record - which heats things up heading towards Worlds.

Promoting commendable skates by lesser known/ranked skaters from other countries is really important too - you never know where the next Fernandez or Ten (RIP) will emerge from, and it's important to emphasize the globalization of the sport (even though there are obviously the putative big feds), and evolution of each discipline.

 

[andromache]

To those of you saying no one wanted your free/cheap pairs and dance tickets....be realistic. People need to plan their trips! Giving away a ticket a week before doesn't do anyone any good unless they are already in the city. It doesn't help fans who want to see the event but couldn't acquire or afford tickets who would also have to travel. Maybe if you offer to give your tickets away or sell them months in advance so people can actually plan their lives....but I don't think anyone does that. I've certainly never seen it.

Good for those of you who have no problem throwing away tickets worth hundreds of dollars that other people would love to have. I'm NOT looking forward to when tickets for Montreal go on sale and I'm fighting through the internet for All-Event tickets against people who only want to go to one or two events. Though if one or two particular skaters ends up having to withdraw, the resale market will be flooded with very cheap resells.

Hence, I have serious problem people claiming people spending money, time and effort to to fly to the other side of the world and freezing themselves for 8+ hours are lesser fans than people sitting at home complaining about bad turnouts for pairs and dance. If you are really concerned about the turnouts, take up one of the free tickets on offer and go to the event. But of course you won't, because that is not truly what you are concerned about.

Having copious amounts of time and money don't make you better than anyone. Plenty of fans would love to go but cannot afford tickets or cannot afford to take time off work. Most do not have the privilege of getting to go to major events.

Where are all these free tickets on offer I keep hearing about?

 

[ankifeather]

Figure skating is in an uphill battle right now because there really aren't any big stars that attract the attention like there were with Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Michelle Kwan - etc. It's a vicious circle between the networks not caring so the public is uninterested so the networks don't care - yada! yada!

That is only true in North America. Not in Japan and Russia or their skaters. In Japan it's impossible to get tickets to competitions or ice shows with the big Japanese stars. They don't even open online sale to foreigners because local attendance is in over demand such that you have to enter a lottery. As for overseas competitions, I know 2017 4CC was mentioned, but the Korean arena at that time had no proper infrastructure or transport to get there, was the main deterrent. Any other event where there is proper transport, at least since Worlds 20017, has been a bloodbath to get good tickets whenever Japanese fans join the fight, and I feel the same for events now with Russian stars like Alina too (e.g. Euros).

Eteri is creating a lot of discussion and interest in Russia for female skating, there were huge turnouts even for test skates and ratings for skating is huge in Japan - from 15%+ to peaking at 45% (in Japan, 15%+ is already considered a huge hit for TV), surpassing ratings for all sports other than the world cup. There are advertisements and magazines of figure skaters everywhere in Japan, and not just Japanese skaters, but Russian skaters too. So it's clear on the East side of the world, figure skating is thriving like nothing before and the countries there are doing everything to make it more popular than ever.

So I don't get this whole figure skating popularity is a going downhill there are no stars rhetoric, as if that is a general worldwide problem, instead of a North America problem. In North America, of course you won't feel how big stars Japanese and Russian skaters are in their country because North America don't promote foreign skaters (or even their own much). Whilst if you go to Asia, other than die-hard fans, they have no idea who Scott Hamilton or Brian Boitano were and maybe once heard of Michelle Kwan, but they definitely did not follow her around the world back in the 90s. They will probably tell you their figure skaters, like Yuna, Hanyu, Alina etc are the biggest stars. It's all geographically dependent. The simple truth is popularity and center of figure skating had shifted from the west to the east, and the world does not include only western countries.

 

[Interspectator]

I think there's needless friction between fans on the topic of tickets, and attendance in this thread--and the fault isn't the fans who choose not to use all their tickets or the fans who want tickets and can't get them at a reasonable price. So making demeaning statements about each other just causes bad feelings and brings the thread down.
As stated above, the way the tickets were sold and the pricing of them is the cause. They were sold at a high price in a All-event Bundle. Like Cable TV. -And no one has blamed anyone for not watching all the shows on cable even though it's expensive.

The event was a good one, the skating was great, those who attended had a good time. Those who watched at home also enjoyed it (I think).

Being a fan of skating has to start somewhere. If someone is actually buying a ticket for an event for any reason (to see all the skaters or to see one skater) it's a win for skating, and the start of maybe going again to see some more.

Personal experience, sometimes wanting to get your moneys worth out of an all-event ticket is not the way to go. I watched all the Short Dances at a World Championships and while I still respect and admire many ice dancers and think that their division is as valid as and worthwhile as all the others, I wish I hadn't been so polite. I got a terrible headache watching them. I've got no claim on 'true fandom' though. I'm just a your ordinary fan.

 

[evangeline]

To those of you saying no one wanted your free/cheap pairs and dance tickets....be realistic. People need to plan their trips! Giving away a ticket a week before doesn't do anyone any good unless they are already in the city. It doesn't help fans who want to see the event but couldn't acquire or afford tickets who would also have to travel. Maybe if you offer to give your tickets away or sell them months in advance so people can actually plan their lives....but I don't think anyone does that. I've certainly never seen it.

Actually, it's quite common for people to sell FS tickets on StubHub months before an event, especially for big events like Worlds. I've purchased tickets myself in those circumstances on multiple occasions.

 

[el henry]

Are we talking about 4CC in Anaheim, or are we talking worldwide?

If we are talking about attendance at 4CC in Anaheim, @noskates is absolutely right. To promote skating at an event in Anaheim requires inspiring local attendance, no matter how popular skaters or skating are in other countries. And it is a vicious circle, no attendance, not popular, not popular, no attendance.
And frankly, God bless Taipei for taking on 4CC, but those stands last year looked empty, empty, empty.

Personally I sit though the “lower” ranked skaters because you never know. Andrew Dodds. :luv17: Donovan Carrillo:luv17: (OK, I knew about him before 4CC). If I had spent the money on 4CC, and missed those SPs, I would think I had not gotten my money’s worth.

Although sitting through multiple rhythm dances can be its own special torment

 

[Mathman]

Although sitting through multiple rhythm dances can be its own special torment

But you know what was cool? When they had those pattern dances where everybody skated around twice (or was it three times?) exactly the same until the music stopped. It was very interesting to see the difference in quality.

Nowadays in the rhythm dances and free dances, everyone is supurb and it hardly seems like a sports contest at all.

 

[el henry]

But you know what was cool? When they had those pattern dances where everybody skated around twice (or was it three times?) exactly the same until the music stopped. It was very interesting to see the difference in quality.

Nowadays in the rhythm dances and free dances, everyone is supurb and it hardly seems like a sports contest at all.

I almost said “pattern dance”; and those young whippersnappers today think they get tired of “Despacito”?

Ha

 

[Mathman]

Here is how we solved the problem of all event tickets when events were held in my home town of Spokane (2002 Skate America, 2007 U.S. Nationals.)

We buy three all-event tickets to share among five of us, my sister, brother, sister-in-law, mom and me). We choose up the segments. That way, mom didn't tire herself out with too much excitement and I could get at least one of the ladies' SP or ladies' LP if Michelle Kwan were skating.

 

[OutsideEdge]

I wasn't seeking your approval, nor would I expect you or anyone to seek mine. Your opinion is equally valid and we don't have to agree, nor do you have to apologize for anything. We're just randoms on an Internet forum expressing a variety of opinions about figure skating and there's no need to take things personally. There are probably people who think that if someone is not a fan of skater(s) X, or if you don't know the ins and outs of the scoring system, then you're not a real figure skating fan and those are (purely hypothetical!) opinions they're entitled to.

My point was that to solve the attendance issue, it would make sense for the ISU to come up with ways to make new fans of figure skating - across multiple disciplines - by promoting a greater variety of skaters and talents, instead of focusing primarily on the big name draws who are almost entirely singles skaters (and a big name's withdrawal or injury or decision not to compete could significantly affect the quality of audience on the day of the event). Of course the organizers already have the fans' money, but the optics look bad when the event ends up like "They sold out this out! ... so, why the empty seats?"

It's almost like the organizers know that some fans will buy tickets at pretty much whatever exorbitant price, if these fans think there's even a prospect of their fave(s) showing up... so the event sells out of individual discipline tickets and to still see the event people are compelled to buy all-event tickets and then have to figure out for themselves what to do with the disciplines they aren't interested in (or worse, what to do when the skater(s) they had hoped to be there isn't going to attend). This way, organizers help ensure that the pairs and dance events are "paid for" even if there aren't physical bums in seats. Shady, but smart of them. Caveat emptor and all. They didn't have a ton of attendance but I'm wondering if they still profited as expected and hit their metrics (since a sold ticket is a sold ticket regardless).

Seems like at 4CC they flew a little too close to the sun with the prices though given the impending variables that compromised attendance. With Hanyu injured early in the season, and perhaps people anticipating Chen to not compete at 4CC because of Yale, World champ Osmond taking the season off, Sui/Han competing being a question mark, and relatively low interest in dance in non-European countries, coupled with the crazy ticket prices, and having it on the west coast, hearing of low attendance is hardly surprising.

I'm not taking it any more personally than you are, I promise. I actually agree with you on almost everything in regards to the ISU's approach to ticket sales. I think the Icarus analogy is a good one here. I knew when I saw the ticket prices that it was going to be rough, especially if Yuzuru wasn't going to be there. That said, you also have to work within the parameters of your market at the end of the day. If "maybe Yuzuru will be there" is what puts money in the ISU coffers, they're going to keep doing that whether there are butts in the seats or not. That doesn't mean their marketing and sales approach shouldn't be improved.

That said, I think you know that the debate about the ISU ticket sales strategy isn't the part of your comment people took issue with. It's the declaration of what makes the "truest" fan. Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but I'm not a supporter of any approach that could be taken as discouraging to newer or more casual fans. We all started somewhere, and figure skating is not meant to be taken so seriously that we all need to concern ourselves with our fan cred. Also, I take some issue with the idea that the three disciplines are so similar that fandom between them is interchangeable somehow. Theoretically hockey, soccer and lacrosse are all people moving around a playing surface shooting things at nets, but I certainly prefer one over the others.

More generally, I appreciate what a privilege it was to be able to afford the trip and the all-session pass. This was my first international event despite being a skating fan for many years because plainly it was the first time in my life I could afford it. That said, at the end of the day, if you factor in the travel, accommodations, food, plushies, transportation and time off work, the cost savings of buying seven individual event tickets of lesser quality verse the all-sessions pass in great seats was not all that much. Especially since when I purchased my all-sessions pass on presale, it was unknown if Yuzuru was going to be there. I had just witness what had happened to prices in Helsinki and wasn't willing to risk it. I imagine I wasn't the only one.

 

[ankifeather]

Having copious amounts of time and money don't make you better than anyone. Plenty of fans would love to go but cannot afford tickets or cannot afford to take time off work. Most do not have the privilege of getting to go to major events.

Of course having time and money don't make you better, and no one in this thread is claiming this. Instead people are claiming people who spend money to go and not turning up to all events are lesser fans or fans not worthy of respect. So who are the ones claiming they are better than others?

It is precisely because it costs a fortune and people are using their limited annual leave, and people don't want to waste it, that they are not sitting through every event. To most this is also their holiday of the year, hence they actually want to enjoy themselves fully, otherwise they will truly feel like they wasted their plane tickets, hotel fees and ticket fees. They are not robots that do not listen to the demands of impatient kids, hungry stomachs and disgruntled accompanying friends who wants to go sightseeing. For example, I did not sell my ice dance & pair tickets because I actually wanted to see them too. and I did go to every event on the first day. But that involved sitting in the cold 10+ hours with no proper food and family members getting very impatient. By the second or third day, you already realize its not physically or mentally enjoyable to sit through everything. Whatever tickets I have purchased is sunken cost by that point, its too late to sell and I won't get it back. The only judgment left is do I want to sit through events my family no longer enjoy, or actually spend that precious leave time off work in a restaurant with a happy family. How is it wasting money to go for the latter option, when you could no longer get it back?

 

[NanaPat]

It certainly didn't help 4CC in Anaheim that the GPF was in Vancouver a mere two months before. Also, I believe Vancouver got the jump on Anaheim by announcing the date earlier and opening ticket sales earlier.

The TSL boys made the point that people should actually be encouraged to move down to better seats, at least the ones that are going to show in the TV coverage! I suspect a lot of people are reluctant to do that because they may have to move back to their assigned seats if the ticket holders arrive late. Or maybe they think it's "cheating"?

The TSL boys also thought young, attractive people should be encouraged to sit in the "visible on TV" seats. I certainly wouldn't go that far. In my experience, I have more time, will, and disposable income for figure skating now than I did 30 years ago, when I would have been more likely to meet with their approval as a "designated seat-filler". Imagine the chaos and howls of outrage that would ensure if fans were asked to prove their "attraciveness" before they were allowed to buy tickets for prime seats!

 

[Tavi...]

Even if you're not a fan of certain disciplines, if you're buying the All-Event ticket, you should go to all of the events. Getting to see skating live in ANY discipline, especially at certain big events, is an incredible privilege and it frustrates me when I think about people who buy All-Event tickets and just let their seats stay empty for some events. Someone could have been lucky enough to have that seat - you (not YOU-you, but general you) are the lucky one ,and you're wasting it.

Then again, I'll admit I am saying this as someone in the Midwest with pretty limited means for most of my life - can't afford to travel, can't afford tickets to events (let alone all event tickets). I'm somewhat more fortunate than I used to be so I am budgeting so hard for Montreal 2020 and I'm going to be livid if I am unable to get tickets for whatever reason and there are people just letting their tickets go to waste.

While I think it’s a great privilege to have enough disposable income to buy tickets to skating events from time to time, I don’t think it’s a privilege to see skating live, anymore than I think it’s a privilege to attend a concert or a baseball game. As Specs said, the issue is how tickets to skating events are priced and sold, and that’s not the fault of consumers / fans. In addition, except in certain circumstances (such as when Hanyu skates or at events in Japan or at the Olympics) most of the time events aren’t sold out, so a fan who buys an all event ticket and then doesn’t attend every event isn’t denying someone else a ticket.

I attended the men’s FS at 4CCs, buying a single ticket at the last minute after a business trip to LA was confirmed. I was furious at being charged a $30 fee - an additional 35% - on top of the $85 ticket price - and even more furious to find out that for $115 part of my view was obstructed by the judges’s box, a fact not mentioned on the USFS or Ticketmaster websites (in theaters and concert/opera houses, seats with partially obstructed views are noted and priced lower). I had initially planned to buy tickets for the FD and gala at the box office to avoid the fees, but I was so tired at the men’s event and surprised by the distance to the venue from my hotel in LA that I decided to pass on them. Had I bought those tickets in advance, I would not have used them, and would not have felt guilty about that decision.

 

[Mathman]

Imagine the chaos and howls of outrage that would ensure if fans were asked to prove their "attraciveness" before they were allowed to buy tickets for prime seats!

Actually, Anaheim is not far from Hollywood, right? There must be a lot of out of work actors and actresses that you could pay to sit in the front row seats for a couple of hours (union scale, of course).

 

[NanaPat]

Actually, Anaheim is not far from Hollywood, right? There must be a lot of out of work actors and actresses that you could pay to sit in the front row seats for a couple of hours (union scale, of course).

They actually suggested that, thought I'm not sure about the pay.

I'm also not sure if they consider THEMSELVES attractive enough to sit in the primo seats.

 

[Shanshani]

To those of you saying no one wanted your free/cheap pairs and dance tickets....be realistic. People need to plan their trips! Giving away a ticket a week before doesn't do anyone any good unless they are already in the city. It doesn't help fans who want to see the event but couldn't acquire or afford tickets who would also have to travel. Maybe if you offer to give your tickets away or sell them months in advance so people can actually plan their lives....but I don't think anyone does that. I've certainly never seen it.

I posted a thread elsewhere about giving away my ladies/men's/gala tickets less than a week before 4CC and got takers within minutes. So I don't think it's really that hard--I'm also inclined to say that the problem is the popularity of the pairs and dance in comparison to singles.

 

[FCSSp4]

It's Yuzuru's fault no one went to 4CC?

 

[Midnightcass]

It's Yuzuru's fault no one went to 4CC?

Yes. Definitely. Of course. That’s what everyone is trying to say. Spot on. Good job.

 

[TallyT]

Imagine the chaos and howls of outrage that would ensure if fans were asked to prove their "attraciveness" before they were allowed to buy tickets for prime seats!

"Send us several hundred dollars and a passport-size photo/mugshot so we can allocate you to the correct seat."

The really (and I mean really) pretty people are on the ice, TSL.