2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

el henry · Oct 7, 2019

theharleyquinn said:
I understand what you mean, but she doesn't have to skate at Nationals to skate and enjoy it. That in itself has an expectation built in about her level and goals.

I would agree with that. But plenty of skaters go to Nats because that is the goal, and they’re pleased as punch (as well they ought to be) to make Nats. It doesn’t mean they’re not competitive, it means that’s their level of competition.

Is that how Gracie feels *this* year. ETA: because one interview did mention Beijing? I don’t know, I can’t speak for her. But I don’t know why fans shouldn’t be happy just to see her at Nats, if she makes it and if that’s what she wants. That’s all I was trying to say

skatergurl7 · Oct 7, 2019

brightphoton said:
:noshake:
The reason that Gracie left the sport the first time was because of depression, partially caused by everyone calling her a fat cow, so maybe this time around we could not do that.

Chill, no one is calling her fat at all. Just that extra weight may be the cause of lower quality jumps and less speed, which is more of a generalized fact.

brightphoton · Oct 7, 2019

skatergurl7 said:
Chill, no one is calling her fat at all. Just that extra weight may be the cause of lower quality jumps and less speed, which is more of a generalized fact.

Nope. Not buying it.

In 2017, after Gracie's sudden retirement, people posted reams of virtual paper about awareness of eating disorders and figure skating's pervasive unhealthy attitudes toward weight, especially for poor Gracie, how could people say that she's overweight in such a public and rude manner, she is under so much pressure, so many expectations, don't they know that Gracie is a real person with real feelin-- fast forward to 2019, back to calling Gracie a fat fat fattie mafatterson.

KatGrace1925 · Oct 7, 2019

skatergurl7 said:
Chill, no one is calling her fat at all. Just that extra weight may be the cause of lower quality jumps and less speed, which is more of a generalized fact.

It is literally not your job to critique someones body and say what they can and cannot do. Generalized fact or not it is extremely insensitive given what she has gone through. It takes time to get back in shape especially when on depression medication which leads to weight gain and makes that journey just that much harder.

KatGrace1925 · Oct 7, 2019

I personally don’t see it as walking back. Most people have been happy for the progress she has made and most have pointed out videos on Instagram are not the same as competition.

I have personally supported her because I believe if she really wants this comeback and is working for it that she can accomplish it. I am not sure this coaching team is the right one for her or a positive one for her but I still believe she could accomplish anything with enough time and hard work.

Mishaminion · Oct 7, 2019

skatergurl7 said:
Chill, no one is calling her fat at all. Just that extra weight may be the cause of lower quality jumps and less speed, which is more of a generalized fact.

As someone who has struggled with her own weight, eating disorders and a whole raft of other physical and mental issues, I can tell you that words like yours can be incredibly hurtful.
You might not think it sounds insensitive or hurtful but believe me it is.
Using terms like "extra weight" pretty much translates in the mind of someone with these kinds of issues as "fat, you're fat, everyone is saying so"

I'm very much hoping Gracie is staying away from social media, but can you imagine her reading some of the posts here (mostly yours)? Going on about extra weight, it being (allegedly) unsafe for her to jump triples because she'll supposedly bust her legs/hips/ankles, can you imagine how it might make her feel?

theharleyquinn · Oct 7, 2019

KatGrace1925 said:
I personally don’t see it as walking back. Most people have been happy for the progress she has made and most have pointed out videos on Instagram are not the same as competition.

I have personally supported her because I believe if she really wants this comeback and is working for it that she can accomplish it. I am not sure this coaching team is the right one for her or a positive one for her but I still believe she could accomplish anything with enough time and hard work.

I agree with you about her coaching setup. I just wish we knew what she wants since all we can do is assume, and sometimes assumptions can themselves generate more pressure through high expectations.

moonvine · Oct 7, 2019

brightphoton said:
:noshake:
The reason that Gracie left the sport the first time was because of depression, partially caused by everyone calling her a fat cow, so maybe this time around we could not do that.

Thank you. I was so angry I could not come up with a response that would not break the rules.

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theharleyquinn said:
I agree with you about her coaching setup. I just wish we knew what she wants since all we can do is assume, and sometimes assumptions can themselves generate more pressure through high expectations.

She has stated what she wants, unless she has changed her mind since then.

moonvine · Oct 7, 2019

Mishaminion said:
As someone who has struggled with her own weight, eating disorders and a whole raft of other physical and mental issues, I can tell you that words like yours can be incredibly hurtful.
You might not think it sounds insensitive or hurtful but believe me it is.
Using terms like "extra weight" pretty much translates in the mind of someone with these kinds of issues as "fat, you're fat, everyone is saying so"

I'm very much hoping Gracie is staying away from social media, but can you imagine her reading some of the posts here (mostly yours)? Going on about extra weight, it being (allegedly) unsafe for her to jump triples because she'll supposedly bust her legs/hips/ankles, can you imagine how it might make her feel?

Thank you too. To recover from an eating disorder takes first of all strength and fortitude, and it also in her case I would imagine it includes a medical doctor and a therapist. So maybe we could let the medical team decide if she is too heavy to jump. I didn't see any "extra weight" - at 2016 Worlds she was unhealthily thin.

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el henry said:
I would agree with that. But plenty of skaters go to Nats because that is the goal, and they’re pleased as punch (as well they ought to be) to make Nats. It doesn’t mean they’re not competitive, it means that’s their level of competition.

Is that how Gracie feels *this* year. ETA: because one interview did mention Beijing? I don’t know, I can’t speak for her. But I don’t know why fans shouldn’t be happy just to see her at Nats, if she makes it and if that’s what she wants. That’s all I was trying to say

I would be thrilled to see her at Nats.

moonvine · Oct 7, 2019

katymay said:
Actually it isn't. Often female basketball recruits used to be forced to 'bulk up' in college. This resulted in many career ending injuries, because women tend to gain in the hips, and the twisting and pounding caused ACL's to blow out. This is more specific to women, and the alignment of their hips, and how the weight is distributed.

Oh Goddess. I just googled ACL tears in skaters, and it states they are most often due to overtraining and/or badly fitted equipment. One of the last things on the page for preventing ACL tears (and other injuries) is "maintaining adequate nutrition. Skaters, particularly girls, are at at risk for eating disorders."

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/orthopaedics/sports-medicine/figure-skating-injuries.cfm

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Mishaminion said:
As someone who has struggled with her own weight, eating disorders and a whole raft of other physical and mental issues, I can tell you that words like yours can be incredibly hurtful.
You might not think it sounds insensitive or hurtful but believe me it is.
Using terms like "extra weight" pretty much translates in the mind of someone with these kinds of issues as "fat, you're fat, everyone is saying so"

I'm very much hoping Gracie is staying away from social media, but can you imagine her reading some of the posts here (mostly yours)? Going on about extra weight, it being (allegedly) unsafe for her to jump triples because she'll supposedly bust her legs/hips/ankles, can you imagine how it might make her feel?

I don't think she has a ton of time to be on social media. But I hope she does as well.

moonvine · Oct 7, 2019

frida80 said:
Every time Gracie skates, people rush to either criticize her or nitpick. Can’t we just be happy that someone that couldn’t do triples just two years ago is able to complete a SP and 1/2 of a FS? I’m amazed at her progress and hope that she continues as long as she wants.

Well, I don't of course. But I don't understand why she is such a polarizing figure. There are skaters I don't care for, but you won't see me up in their threads criticising them (commentators are a different story

. This woman has recovered from an eating disorder and depression so profound she hung things on the mirrors so she didn't have to see herself. That Ashley Wagner noticed and went to USA Skating about it, and has stated something along the lines of when Ashley looked in Gracies eyes nobody was home. I am horrified by some of the stuff I've heard (Tanith White ate only a handful of almonds per day and was so weak she couldn't do her part in the lifts, and eating disorders are also rampant among the men, thought it isn't talked about as much https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/sports/olympics/figure-skating-adam-rippon.html ) Gracie has worked very, very hard. I don't know why we can't just honor that. Do I think she was satisfied with her result at Regionals? No I don't. Do I wish she had done some summer comps? Yes, I do. Do I think she'll go to Nationals this year and win? No, she may not even go this year. But it is such a great personal triumph that she not only recovered from her eating disorder but skated two programs in competition for the first time in a long time.

andromache · Oct 7, 2019

Gracie's weight is, as far as I am concerned, a non-issue, so long as she is healthy (and we have no reason to believe she is not). She has big, fully-rotated jumps. Stamina is a issue, sure, but that's due to lack of training, not weight! I am relatively "normal" sized. Just started running/working out on a regular basis this year. I did a 5k yesterday, and many of the women who out-ran me seemed to weigh a lot more than me. It's just about training and practice, and that's okay. Weight does not equal health or training or athleticism or stamina.

Anyway, I'll echo some of the concern here around her coaching situation. Ultimately, if she's happy with her coaching situation and they are giving her the emotional support she needs, great. But I seriously question the wisdom of Vincent posting videos of the 3A and quad attempts when she is still in the process of being able to run-through her entire programs with all of the elements included successfully. Like, if the harness attempts are helpful to Gracie and they're a bit of fun for her, that's great! But posting them online to build fan hype? He's setting up expectations for Gracie that she's not currently able to meet, and that seems like a bad idea.

crazydreamer · Oct 7, 2019

katymay said:
Actually it isn't. Often female basketball recruits used to be forced to 'bulk up' in college. This resulted in many career ending injuries, because women tend to gain in the hips, and the twisting and pounding caused ACL's to blow out. This is more specific to women, and the alignment of their hips, and how the weight is distributed.

This is a girl who recently recovered from an eating disorder. Your speculative “concern” for her ankles pales in comparison to the very real threats comments like yours pose to both her mental and physical health should she relapse.

Tavi... · Oct 7, 2019

I love Gracie, am thrilled to see her competing again, and admire the grit and courage she showed in getting through her first full competition in three years. She’s struggled a lot over the past few years, so the fact that she feels safe and supported at Ice Works is a great thing.

The idea that she’s damaging her body doing triples right now strikes me as no more than a thinly-disguised judgement that she’s “too fat” and doesn’t “look right” to be an elite skater, with which I totally disagree.

That said, if I recall correctly, Gracie’s stated goal is to contend for a spot on the next Olympic team. If that goal changes as she continues on her journey - or has already changed - she might be with exactly the right coach. But if she’s serious about making the next Olympic team, I do wonder if Vincent is the right one to get her there.

Although we don’t know for sure that she hasn’t competed since Rostelecom or that the only show she’s done was at Ice Works in April, that’s kinda the way it looks. Comparing her programs here to her April ex (same as SP), she’s completing harder elements - which is great - but overall they still look pretty rough. It’s not just that she lacks stamina. Her basic skating and overall execution just don’t look much better. And that’s a concern, because as we saw, she’s being judged on those things.

Sure, she has to go step by step, some of what we saw this weekend is down to nerves, and she may not be able to afford as much training time as would be ideal. But...given this is the same coaching team that let her go to Rostelecom last year, I do question their judgment, priorities, and technical expertise.

We’ll see where’s she’s at next month. If she’s made huge strides, I will happily, happily, happily admit to being wrong.

macy · Oct 7, 2019

oh what a dumpster fire i just walked into.

some of these posts are just shameful. where are the mods?

Seven Sisters · Oct 7, 2019

macy said:
oh what a dumpster fire i just walked into.

some of these posts are just shameful. where are the mods?

I agree. Moderators, please take action. This is not The Skating Lesson!

andromache · Oct 7, 2019

Seven Sisters said:
I agree. Moderators, please take action. This is not The Skating Lesson!

It's my understanding that the report button is there for a reason.....to make mods see offensive posts. Report the posts that are breaking rules?

gkelly · Oct 7, 2019

Tavi... said:
and she may not be able to afford as much training time as would be ideal

Another possible factor

jenaj · Oct 7, 2019

Gracie is doing the triple lutz so it seems to me she is still dealing with mental, not physical, issues. And it is beyond shameful to criticize the weight of someone trying to recover from an eating disorder. For the record, I still think the supposed advantage of lighter weight in skating has at least as much to do with aesthetics as it does with performance.

nussnacker · Oct 7, 2019

I think Gracie is doing great considering what she’s been through. Remember, a lot of athletes with similar diagnoses never even try to have a comeback (understandably), and she’s already progressed much further than a lot people thought she could.
Weight isn’t an important factor, people can be competitive at different sizes and shapes, there’s no standard shape that suddenly makes you jump quads.
She has her own goals, she’s working towards them, wherever the journey might lead to, this journey of overcoming her depression and disorder is far more important and will make her more powerful than any achievements or medals. I don’t think people should be putting their expectations of when she should be achieving what on her, it’s up to her to decide when she wants to be ready and choose her own pace.
And quads and 3A aren’t dealbreakers, yes there are quite a few ladies doing them, but should we then literally retire 95% of ladies who aren’t doing them, because „they don’t stand a chance“? It’s just not something I understand, it’s not Gracie alone who isn’t jumping 3A/quads right now, no one in US does besides Alysa, so Gracie can still have a fight for one of the 3 spots.
Give her time.

2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

skatergurl7

brightphoton

KatGrace1925

KatGrace1925

Mishaminion

theharleyquinn

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

andromache

crazydreamer

Tavi...

macy

Seven Sisters

andromache

gkelly

jenaj

nussnacker

one and only

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