2015-2016 Programs by Discipline

[Ice Dance]

if the judges call you on it.

If they "call you on it" once, the next panel is going to be watching you like a hawk the next time you skate. I think this is a really important discussion. Because, as has been mentioned, there are a lot of teams playing with fire in the SD this season.

And in a field with two world champions (P&C and C&L), 3 European champions (+B&S), a GPF champion (W&P), the reigning silver medalists from Worlds/GPF/4CC's (C&B), and some up & comers whose various legitimate results look to have the potential to knock one or more of those teams out of a slot should the experienced medalists make a mistake, this could be a very hotly contested season.

 

[iamchrislao]

This season, so far, I like the following programs:

1. Shoma FS
2. Miyahara FS
3. Gold FS

I am not sure about Yuzu's and Mao's...For yuzu the steps are to die for! it just draws you in. But the layout has been the same. He should retire David Wilson for a while. For mao, again perfect vehicle coz she's delicate. But it's not innovative enough...I feel like Lori ran out of ideas after giving Gold her better ideas...I don't know...

Last note: pls pls pls never recycle costumes! your throw out any notion of "fresh" the moment u recycle costumes! ugh

 

[chameleon]

Well, presumably if a team gets a music deduction before the end of the season, they'll change their music. The problem occurs if, as has happened in the past, the judges for whatever reason don't give team(s) a music deduction until worlds. I think this happened to Agafonova/Ucar at 2013 Worlds, they were 13th at Euros with a SD score of 50.79, and then at Worlds they were second to last in the SD with 43.98 and didn't make the FD cut. Looking at the protocols, not only did they get the music deduction, four of their keypoints were called as T.

While there is always the possibility that none of the judging panels will mark you down for it, it just seems like an unnecessary risk to take, especially as not getting called on it in the first half of the season does not necessarily mean you'll get away with it at the bigger competitions.

 

[sunnystars]

I am not sure about Yuzu's and Mao's...For yuzu the steps are to die for! it just draws you in. But the layout has been the same. He should retire David Wilson for a while.

david did not choreographed yuzu's seimei. shae-lynn did.

 

[iamchrislao]

Oh! Thanks for this!

david did not choreographed yuzu's seimei. shae-lynn did.

 

[sunnystars]

^

no problem!

 

[Tallorder]

The sad part is that the majority of judges barely have anything approaching sufficiently sophisticated knowledge of rhythm, meter, etc. They are easily swayed by incomprehensible and typically politically motivated inferences. If only a minority of judges consider "pressing the button" to indicate a music deduction, it is not likely to be taken. If a middling number of judges consider this to be an issue, it becomes the discretion of the referee.

However, in the case that a music deduction was contemplated by some judges, but ultimately NOT taken, indications as such do not even appear on the protocols. Knowledge of any deductions indicated are only discussed during judge's round table, but not made public or formally disclosed.

Classic "limited disclosure" back room tactics, manipulation potential. SO figure skating, isn't it?

 

[Rissa]

For yuzu the steps are to die for! it just draws you in. But the layout has been the same. He should retire David Wilson for a while.

The layout has changed changed from the last season: there's an extra 4T in the middle... But other than that, true, not much has changed in terms of layout. Actually I think Yuzu has optimalised his layout to suit both his skills and desired base value and doesn't have much wiggle room. The only things he could do without lowering of the base value or risking not being able to do elements due to exhaustion is switching his last two jumps around and switching his step and choreographis sequence around.

That said, I don't think the layout is the choreographer's decision, Shae-Lynn Bourne's in this case. It's probably more in the hands of the skater and the coach.

 

[seabm7]

Beverley Smith tweeted about SD of Weaver and Poje: "Strauss"

https://twitter.com/BevSmithWrites/status/656992498146017280

 

[Ice Dance]

Well, presumably if a team gets a music deduction before the end of the season, they'll change their music.

Yep. Or if the judges suggest the music isn't "quite right."

Here we go.

 

[Ice Dance]

Also, from the Skate America SD thread about Chock & Bates:

SD Music: "More" by Andrea Bocelli and "Unchained Melody" by Il Divo

Both sources--about Weaver & Poje's new "Strauss" SD music and Chock and Bates's new music--say the reason behind the changed music is to make the rhythms more clear to the judges. I think our conversation about the SD rhythms was extremely well timed.

 

[bramweld]

Also, from the Skate America SD thread about Chock & Bates:




Both sources--about Weaver & Poje's new "Strauss" SD music and Chock and Bates's new music--say the reason behind the changed music is to make the rhythms more clear to the judges. I think our conversation about the SD rhythms was extremely well timed.

I wonder if H/D will change theirs as well?

 

[Snow63]

Also, from the Skate America SD thread about Chock & Bates:




Both sources--about Weaver & Poje's new "Strauss" SD music and Chock and Bates's new music--say the reason behind the changed music is to make the rhythms more clear to the judges. I think our conversation about the SD rhythms was extremely well timed.

So Weaver/Poje decided to go classic? This is extremely right decision in my opinion.
I expect more teams to follow.

 

[tulosai]

I am actually really disappointed in both W/P and C/B's music changes but especially C/B. I think that was a really good vehicle for them and this is a mistake.

 

[Snow63]

I am actually really disappointed in both W/P and C/B's music changes but especially C/B. I think that was a really good vehicle for them and this is a mistake.

I agree about Chock/Bates, but there is a rumour in russian forum that it was their original first option for the SD. Remember Igor said they changed SD music before the start of the season? And maybe the idea is to show 2 SD'es to the judges, and then to choose the best one for the Worlds at Boston. OR maybe they received a hint from someone (maybe tech specialist) at Nebelhorn that it would be best to choose something different. Although, the arragement of 'Dark eyes' they have chosen for their second SD is clearly 3/4 piece of music.

As for Weaver/Poje, their Elvis waltz was so bad, that ANY change would be for better, in my opinion.

 

[tulosai]

I agree about Chock/Bates, but there is a rumour in russian forum that it was their original first option for the SD. Remember Igor said they changed SD music before the start of the season? And maybe the idea is to show 2 SD'es to the judges, and then to choose the best one for the Worlds at Boston. OR maybe they received a hint from someone (maybe tech specialist) at Nebelhorn that it would be best to choose something different. Although, the arragement of 'Dark eyes' they have chosen for their second SD is clearly 3/4 piece of music.

As for Weaver/Poje, their Elvis waltz was so bad, that ANY change would be for better, in my opinion.

Yes that is why I am confused by the reason given by C/B- as you say it was very clear 3/4 time, very easily countable and identifiable actually...

 

[Abraxis12345]

This is a pretty good analysis of what may have been wrong with both Weaver and Poje's and Chock and Bates' SD's.

http://comradejewbear.tumblr.com/post/131677944613/ohtheseskaters-theicedancekingdom

Also, I believe Chock and Bates' original SD was going to be Sleeping Beauty

 

[Snow63]

Also, I believe Chock and Bates' original SD was going to be Sleeping Beauty

So this is actually their THIRD short dance? :shocked: Oh my, this is not good.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

I am no expert in music or ice dance requirements. However, their teams surely are the second and can hire the first, so why on earth is getting music that fits the laid down ISU requirements for a particular dance so difficult? I don't get it. It is like what I tell students in exams: read the rubric and do exactly what it requires or you will lose marks. I am confused as to how this is happening?

 

[uhh]

You could ask the same about why some lifts only get level 2, or why people get costume deductions... It's all stuff that people should know in theory. But I guess that what happens is that people get taken with a particular idea, because maybe they love that piece of music, or they think it will make them stand out. Maybe it fits 75% of the requirements, so you try to twist the other 25% by altering the tempo, or adding a drum beat or whatever, and sometimes your gamble pays off and the judges accept it, and sometimes you get told to make a change or ditch the whole thing.

C/B & W/P both will have been to their national performance camps with their old programs, so it was signed off at that level, and neither of them got music deductions at their events, so technically they were OK with their choices. It sounds more like the feedback for both of them was that the judges didn't love the programs & thought there were question marks, for C/B in particular. Just speculating, but I think W/P is more of a kneejerk panic reaction to their disappointing scores at Finlandia. The rhythms were OK, they got good levels apart from on the twizzles but the PCS & overall score wasn't great, and many people were commenting online that the program was a bit dull & safe. Maybe they just didn't have faith that it would keep them competitive this year.