2016 Team Challenge Cup - Day 2

[ranjake]

I just want to add thanks for the explanation of Medvedeva's program; I appreciate it so much more now, and am beyond impressed with her. I find her so talented, with a great attitude, and poised beyond her years.

 

[Skater Boy]

I have to admire Jason coming back - though I think he was overmarked, somewhat laboured, somewhat heistant at times and his lines are n't as strong and he wasn't as fast as in the pass but ghive him some time to continue the heal and all. But I am still resolute his skating skills are overrated. It will be interested to see what happens to him next year with Adam, Joshua, Max and maybe Jeremy too.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Uh.... Jason was about 19 points off of bronze.

Not in an accurately scored event!

 

[boskil]

Thank you boskil. I had no idea. I'll watch her performance again with this in mind

Wonder if the judges take time to explore all skaters programs/stories or if they mostly go with music interpretation. Maybe they get an explanation along with planned elements?

I don't know about fans and judges, but when I watch some TV commentators or on-line shows hosts saying: "I don't know, what she's doing with her hands, but..." it's really disappointing and lame tbh.

It's their job to know what World, European, GPF Champion's choreography is about (at least roughly), she was explaining it in multiple interviews since the last summer - it's been translated in her fan thread in this very place. All that is required is minimum effort towards a great skater.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I don't know about fans and judges, but when I watch some TV commentators or on-line shows hosts saying: "I don't know, what she's doing with her hands, but..." it's really disappointing and lame tbh.

It's their job to know what World, European, GPF Champion's choreography is about (at least roughly), she was explaining it in multiple interviews since the last summer - it's been translated in her fan thread in this very place. All that is required is minimum effort towards a great skater.

I disagree. I'm all for commentators doing their research (and seriously saying "I don't know what she's doing with her hands there" is pretty stupid), but nobody should have to research anything to get the choreography of a good program. Good choreography makes you understand it without research.

 

[Ares]

Satoko has so many lovely qualities, but this LP doesn't do anything for me. It's pleasant and lyrical but it doesn't make me feel anything other than "oh that's nice." Her SP is somewhat stronger.

Time for Evgenia to slayyyy. I finally fell in love with her LP at Worlds and I'm ready to see it again.

The same bland impression here when it comes to LP of Satoko. I find her SP better.

 

[Mathman]

Good choreography makes you understand it without research.

Oh, I don't know about that, not at all. To tell the truth, to me most choreography does not say much at all, except to be a vehicle for the spacing of jumps and spins. When I go to the theater, and especially opera or ballet, I greatly appreciate the program notes. Without them I cannot understand why this dancer is flapping her arms like a bird.

In Patrick Chan's Take Five short program he sticks his elbows out to the side, then he snaps his head back. How in the world are we ever supposed to guess that he is pretending to be a bar-hopping playboy with two young ladies on his arms, and then he gets punched in the face by the boyfriend of one of the girls?

Many skaters have undertaken Meditation by Thais. Do they know that the "meditation" is about, "Should i be a nun or a prostitute? Let me think, let me think."

On the other hand, some choreography aggressively denies telling any story at all. Michelle Kwan's Lyra Angelica is about Michelle Kwan skating. That's it. (Lori Nichol once told me that she chose this music as Michelle's vehicle because that was the music that she wanted to hear playing when she herself walked through the pearly gates. )

Then there are the really ambitious efforts that tie the short program and the long program together with complementary or contrasting themes. Michelle's intended programs in the 2005-2006 season were supposed to be about life and death. We never got to see the dirge-like Prelude in C sharp minor, but we did see the (paradoxically) spirited and life-affirming program to the Dance of Death. (Michelle is portraying a modern party girl, not a medieval resurrected skeleton.)

All of this is very interesting to me. And, I think, impossible to guess on one's own without being told.

(On the other hand, sometimes it is obvious. Once Sasha Cohen as Juliet fell out of her closing pose. While lying awkwardly on the ice she cleverly played it off by pretending to stab herself. )

- - - Updated - - -

^ TL;DR

 

[Tavi...]

The same bland impression here when it comes to LP of Satoko. I find her SP better.

In general I'm not a huge Satoko fan, but I actually loved her exhibition and wish she would incorporate some of the personality she showed there into her competitive programs. She was very charming, and the more casual and relaxed style suits her and drew me in more than the serious stuff she usually skates to.

 

[Alexz]

I disagree. I'm all for commentators doing their research (and seriously saying "I don't know what she's doing with her hands there" is pretty stupid), but nobody should have to research anything to get the choreography of a good program. Good choreography makes you understand it without research.

Well... I DO read the libretto before going to ballet. They sell those brochures in theater for a good purpose. For people to read the pre-story and hints of the plot. Human race being doing it for centuries, you know. If good choreography is considered to be on form some silly butt shaking on MTV for easy-understanding nowdays. Imho, good choreography should be complex, should make person to watch in closely several times and to think about it. Sometimes I have to read other people's deep analysis of some ballets to understand it better, and then go back and watch it one more time. Otherwise it's not a choreography, but just the ...let say... twerking. And I'm a 34 y.o. male, straight as a whistle (hey, don't hold it against me! ) I have nothing against twerking at all. But to my taste a trully great choreography requires some deep thinking in order to understand all nuances and shades. But it's just me. YMMV.

 

[silverlake22]

I agree. I think it looks better than the light purple she had all season. It makes her look taller somehow.

She's catching up to Satoko! http://shoma-uno.tumblr.com/image/143295111162

I know it doesn't mean much but still, I hope people stop treating her like a baby. Her skating is beautiful and I thought her scores were a bit low for what she did. Glad to see her PCS starting to get higher though. I think Tursy or "Lil Bet" as some like to call her is one to watch in the future, or maybe even now, she's so fierce and determined :luv17:

 

[KwanIsALegend]

Closing monologue of Annie Hall. Though Manhattan has one of my favorite Woody Allen quips: Don't knock masturbation...it's sex with someone I love!

lol.
Don't forget " I never want to belong to a club that would have someone like me as a member". lol. Love that one.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

:

I have to admire Jason coming back - though I think he was overmarked, somewhat laboured, somewhat heistant at times and his lines are n't as strong and he wasn't as fast as in the pass but ghive him some time to continue the heal and all. But I am still resolute his skating skills are overrated. It will be interested to see what happens to him next year with Adam, Joshua, Max and maybe Jeremy too.

I am not completely sold on Jason. I noticed that in the finale number he was sort of head of the pack and did the first little solo mini skate. Kinda weird since he hasn't been around all season.
I just kinda sorta sometimes think that Jason is the USFSA's golden boy. He is talented and a crowd pleaser.But I think sometimes he has been a little overscored.

 

[matmuh]

She's catching up to Satoko! http://shoma-uno.tumblr.com/image/143295111162

I know it doesn't mean much but still, I hope people stop treating her like a baby. Her skating is beautiful and I thought her scores were a bit low for what she did. Glad to see her PCS starting to get higher though. I think Tursy or "Lil Bet" as some like to call her is one to watch in the future, or maybe even now, she's so fierce and determined :luv17:

i think her SP score was fair but definitely underscored on LP cause they didnt count her chsq :yes: maybe they thought it was part of stsq, for me she is one to watch NOW since i watch her SP almost daily

 

[ioanna]

:
I am not completely sold on Jason. I noticed that in the finale number he was sort of head of the pack and did the first little solo mini skate. Kinda weird since he hasn't been around all season.
I just kinda sorta sometimes think that Jason is the USFSA's golden boy. He is talented and a crowd pleaser.But I think sometimes he has been a little overscored.

It's because he was wearing his Prince outfit and he had his symbol embroided on his back. It's why the camera was first focused on his back. I saw that little number as a Prince tribute.

 

[karne]

:
I am not completely sold on Jason. I noticed that in the finale number he was sort of head of the pack and did the first little solo mini skate. Kinda weird since he hasn't been around all season.

If you'll notice, he was wearing his Prince costume, and clearly the finale number had a tribute to Prince as part of it. But don't let that get in your way.

He is talented and a crowd pleaser.But I think sometimes he has been a little overscored.

Oh wow. That comment with that avatar. Oh wow. :sarcasm:

 

[Li'Kitsu]

In Patrick Chan's Take Five short program he sticks his elbows out to the side, then he snaps his head back. How in the world are we ever supposed to guess that he is pretending to be a bar-hopping playboy with two young ladies on his arms, and then he gets punched in the face by the boyfriend of one of the girls?

And that's already one of the examples where I would disagree I never read it, but given the music, overall tone of the SP and choreo, I always thought that part did look like "I'm putting my arms around 2 pretty girls here, hehe! - Oooops, punched in the face!". Could have been one of the girls punching him in the face though, not her boyfriend, so I did get it wrong I guess (I like my interpretation better though - hey, I'm a girl, girl-power and all that stuff! )

Well... I DO read the libretto before going to ballet. They sell those brochures in theater for a good purpose. For people to read the pre-story and hints of the plot. Human race being doing it for centuries, you know. If good choreography is considered to be on form some silly butt shaking on MTV for easy-understanding nowdays. Imho, good choreography should be complex, should make person to watch in closely several times and to think about it. Sometimes I have to read other people's deep analysis of some ballets to understand it better, and then go back and watch it one more time. Otherwise it's not a choreography, but just the ...let say... twerking. And I'm a 34 y.o. male, straight as a whistle (hey, don't hold it against me! ) I have nothing against twerking at all. But to my taste a trully great choreography requires some deep thinking in order to understand all nuances and shades. But it's just me. YMMV.

Oh no, I agree with the majority of what you said - especially good choreo being complex, making you want to think about it more. But for me, that isn't the same as saying someone "needs to do their research to understand a program" (and this is what I interpreted in the post I quoted above). Of course I want choreo to make me think about it, finding my own meaning and interpretation within it. But for me that's completely different from a program where to have any grasp of what's happening, I have to stroll through the internet finding someone who explains it to me. But I also don't think good choreo has to be definite, on the contrary, I actually like it when it inspires different interpretations (in a certain extent of course - if one person thinks it's a honeymoon and the other it's a divorce, something probably went wrong ).
To go back to the first example of Evgenias LP, I don't think anyone has to know what she says in sign language to comment on the choreo, judge it or think it's good or not. If it's interesting for and you want to look it up - great. But nobody, not commentators either, should be required to do it IMO.

 

[Sabrina]

About choreography, it is mandatory to give some hint, either in the title, if it is well known or even more if it's less known. Schindler's list, Swan lake, Tristan and Isolde are easy to understand. So was Kolyada's Christmas nightmare...But in Medvedeva's case, I had to read this forum to realize that she portrays a deaf girl. With this information, her program grew on me, as I could understand her artistic movements.

 

[StitchMonkey]

:
I am not completely sold on Jason. I noticed that in the finale number he was sort of head of the pack and did the first little solo mini skate. Kinda weird since he hasn't been around all season.
I just kinda sorta sometimes think that Jason is the USFSA's golden boy. He is talented and a crowd pleaser.But I think sometimes he has been a little overscored.

He skated to a Prince song (Question of You) at the Olympics and that was the costume he wore that year. If other skaters skated to Prince in the past please let me know. But I don't think this was a golden boy decision, this was a he had the costume cuz he skated to Prince before decision.

If you or anyone else wants to see the reference, here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqmXCTZvNYI

 

[Kelly]

She's portraying deaf girl trying to embrace our "normal" world: the whole idea is based on sign language, which she trained before the season under supervision of professional translator of people with hearing disorders. The girl is curious of surrounding world, world she can't hear, but also the world she's not afraid and is trying to explore. The beginning: ear covering gestures express her disability, but also instantly the smile indicates the youthful zeal and openess, then the curtains she makes with her hands at the rink side are symbols of barriers between her world of silence and ours; she is bypassing them, pushing through to the touching end, when she "says" in sign language: "I can't hear you, but get goosebumps feeling you deep in my heart. I'm not afraid of you, I open up to you".

Evgenia's flawless performance with beautiful lines and arm movements is timeless.

Oh, I don't know about that, not at all. To tell the truth, to me most choreography does not say much at all, except to be a vehicle for the spacing of jumps and spins. When I go to the theater, and especially opera or ballet, I greatly appreciate the program notes. Without them I cannot understand why this dancer is flapping her arms like a bird.

In Patrick Chan's Take Five short program he sticks his elbows out to the side, then he snaps his head back. How in the world are we ever supposed to guess that he is pretending to be a bar-hopping playboy with two young ladies on his arms, and then he gets punched in the face by the boyfriend of one of the girls?

Many skaters have undertaken Meditation by Thais. Do they know that the "meditation" is about, "Should i be a nun or a prostitute? Let me think, let me think."

On the other hand, some choreography aggressively denies telling any story at all. Michelle Kwan's Lyra Angelica is about Michelle Kwan skating. That's it. (Lori Nichol once told me that she chose this music as Michelle's vehicle because that was the music that she wanted to hear playing when she herself walked through the pearly gates. )

Then there are the really ambitious efforts that tie the short program and the long program together with complementary or contrasting themes. Michelle's intended programs in the 2005-2006 season were supposed to be about life and death. We never got to see the dirge-like Prelude in C sharp minor, but we did see the (paradoxically) spirited and life-affirming program to the Dance of Death. (Michelle is portraying a modern party girl, not a medieval resurrected skeleton.)

All of this is very interesting to me. And, I think, impossible to guess on one's own without being told.

(On the other hand, sometimes it is obvious. Once Sasha Cohen as Juliet fell out of her closing pose. While lying awkwardly on the ice she cleverly played it off by pretending to stab herself. )

- - - Updated - - -

^ TL;DR

Haha, I was prompted to Goolge Meditation by Thais.

 

[narcissa]

She's portraying deaf girl trying to embrace our "normal" world: the whole idea is based on sign language, which she trained before the season under supervision of professional translator of people with hearing disorders. The girl is curious of surrounding world, world she can't hear, but also the world she's not afraid and is trying to explore. The beginning: ear covering gestures express her disability, but also instantly the smile indicates the youthful zeal and openess, then the curtains she makes with her hands at the rink side are symbols of barriers between her world of silence and ours; she is bypassing them, pushing through to the touching end, when she "says" in sign language: "I can't hear you, but get goosebumps feeling you deep in my heart. I'm not afraid of you, I open up to you".

by god, that's beautiful.