2017 Four Continents Pairs FS

[skatemouse]

Another point I have to make though, is that Haven and Brandon had a very good skate, in many ways better than that of Alexa/Chris. But because Alexa/Chris are considered returning top U.S. pair (despite Haven/Brandon being U.S. National champions), it's Alexa/Chris who are being given more rep and credit. Frankly, Haven/Brandon should have received much better scores in both programs, but especially the fp. They've been together a long time and they have an ease and flow and connection that even the switched Chinese pairs do not possess. It's purely figure skating politics that Haven/Brandon are rated lower at 4CCs -- they shouldn't have been. They have to get those jumps together for Worlds. But they definitely had a strong skate at 4CCs (better than Nationals) but didn't receive the marks they deserved.[/QUOTE


To simplify things: Alexa and Chris if they have rep and credit they have earned it full force and with their elements and joy of skating. . Having been a fan of Alexa and Chris since the beginning it is so untrue what you wrote although opinions are just that. Facts state otherwise.
It is your opinion and mine differs obviously.
The reason Alexa and Chris have placed higher than every National Champ at Worlds except for the year they won because it was them is due to the fact they skate like a senior team. Fast, strong, powerful, and artistically. Not perfectly but they belong there and have earned their place.
Also since Haven and Branden have gotten second at an International before and won Jr Worlds it is purely a rude and disparaging comment to say it is purely politics that caused them to place lower. I understand being disappointed in a favorite team but you are not helping them by making such a statement that is so obviously false. It is also true that Alexa and Chris would be the National Champs THIS YEAR if they had gone to Nationals and if Alexa had not become so ill.

It would be better to offer suggestions like to work on height for throws and jumps that would help. Working on speed and power to skate bigger would really help them and we need both teams in tip top shape for Worlds.
Alexa and Chris need to keep working on programs, run troughs, and consistency. We need both teams for three spots and I believe they can do it. I know it is a long shot but it is also possible.
No one here got the marks they deserved including Alexa and Chris but don't trick yourself into believing it is purely politics they place consistently higher check your facts. Let's also support both teams and pray for three spots.
Work to do! but tearing down a good team that has earned every bit of their success Internationally won't help the team you like better to get better marks.

 

[QuadThrow]

Very nice comeback for Sui/Han and big win.

Worlds is even more interesting than before. S/H missed to be the clear favourits with the fall today. I think there are four pairs fighting for the Gold: S/H, T/M, S/M, D/R.

Duhamel and Radford have to be clean in Helsinki to have a chance for the win because their PCS is going to be the lowest. 67,21 today was quite fair and not inflated at all. S/M do have the best program but seem to be inconstent with the 3ATh and SBS which they need. T/M have a very nice SP but a bad Free. Nevertheless they are technical very consistent. S/H definitly need the 3S and the Gold is almost theirs.

 

[skatemouse]

Seems like judges were pretty harsh on the pairs spin. Sui and Han got lvl 1 plus missing feature, SKK got no level plus missing feature...losses of like 2.5 points..

yes totally true judges were very harsh.

 

[cathlen]

Liubov & Dylan! :luv17: Too bad about fall on second throw... But the last lift is so mesmerizing! BESP guy said he would give I/M higher PCS than D/R, I agree wholeheartedly, but judges of course not.... Still, very happy they ended up on podium! Congrats Dylan & Liubov! That was great!

 

[skatemouse]

Sui and Han's pair spin is so stunning and different, but it's very risky. If they fall out of position in any way, they lose a lot of points for their spins. I hope they keep it though, and just figure out how to make sure they have enough time for it.

I actually really love this spin. I think it is one of the most beautiful I have seen. i just think the judging was trying to make a point after Europeans were the scores were out of control and they went the opposite way..

 

[solani]

I only just recognized that Yu/Zhang also did a quad twist, level 3. That could explain why they seemed to lose focus a bit.

 

[skatemouse]

The only way Alexa/Chris are going to move up at Worlds is if they land their sbs jumps and regain their throw quad twist.

The have done it before and being competitive and loving this sport not sure why you would think they would not do that?

 

[yqs100]

I only just recognized that Yu/Zhang also did a quad twist, level 3. That could explain why they seemed to lose focus a bit.

its a trial. They only started training quad twist after GPF.

 

[cathlen]

Yu/Zhang. Amazing quad twist, then doubling 3T... and I think it was disconnected in some part of the program. Like not really being there. I think they had better performances of that program this season. Hope Yu will be back to her usual confidence by Worlds

 

[skatemouse]

I think this was a harsh judged competition but there were some good first competition comebacks for SK/K and S/H. I think too if the Team USA Pairs can somehow improve their competition readiness and also improve the tech content we may just have a chance dare I say for three spots. It is a long shot but still a shot. D/F I think will improve technical and SK/K will get more trained and you never know? I just think the USA is due.

 

[Sugarpova]

havent seen yet but
congrats to SH!!!!
& lovely to see IM podium!

Im happy this happend at 4CC with YZ! Im positive they will train hard & jumps will be there for them at worlds!
my take is always as 4CC is a preparation for worlds.

 

[gravy]

Hey Gravy.. having any fun over there?

I was happy crying after Queen Sui's free so, yes. Apparently I have a heart (shocking, I know!).

 

[solani]

its a trial. They only started training quad twist after GPF.

After GPF? It's already quite good. Gordeeva wrote in her book that the Russian doctors were troubled because her pulse got really high when she did a quad twist, that's why they stopped doing it eventually (also because most of the judges didn't recognize it anyway ...).

 

[cathlen]

Sui/Han were amazing! Of course, that SBS 3S wasn't, but otherwise just amazing. The transitions, the lifts, twist, throws just amazing! So worth waiting for Empress & her loyal Knight comeback!

But to be honest, overall, I think Euro Pairs event had better quality. It was amazing there, here it went down to good elements and who made less mistakes overall. Was there a team here, apart of Peng/Jin, who had clean Free Program? Because I know there was no team with both clean programs...

 

[cathlen]

I think this was a harsh judged competition but there were some good first competition comebacks for SK/K and S/H. I think too if the Team USA Pairs can somehow improve their competition readiness and also improve the tech content we may just have a chance dare I say for three spots. It is a long shot but still a shot. D/F I think will improve technical and SK/K will get more trained and you never know? I just think the USA is due.

Well, that's much optimism. They wouldn't even earn three spots for 4CC with 6+8 places for next season, they're lucky 4CC is the only ISU Championships you don't have to earn spots. And at Worlds there will be additonally 3 Russian teams, German and French, all of them has potential to beat American teams. I think the chances for 3 spots in Pairs are less than 5%. There should be no problem with keeping two spots though.

 

[gold12345]

Another point I have to make though, is that Haven and Brandon had a very good skate, in many ways better than that of Alexa/Chris. But because Alexa/Chris are considered returning top U.S. pair (despite Haven/Brandon being U.S. National champions), it's Alexa/Chris who are being given more rep and credit. Frankly, Haven/Brandon should have received much better scores in both programs, but especially the fp. They've been together a long time and they have an ease and flow and connection that even the switched Chinese pairs do not possess. It's purely figure skating politics that Haven/Brandon are rated lower at 4CCs -- they shouldn't have been. They have to get those jumps together for Worlds. But they definitely had a strong skate at 4CCs (better than Nationals) but didn't receive the marks they deserved.

I completely disagree, so much so that I feel as if we were watching a different competition. Alexa/Chris are the class of the US pairs field, and skated very well here. I was not expecting them to look as strong and ready for this event as they did, given how little training time they had. The 14+ point gap over Haven/Brandon was completely justified and would have been even greater if they hadn't lost so much base value on their pair spin. The US has to be relieved that SK/K are ready for competition, because if this event and Europeans are any indication, they may save the US from losing their 2nd pair spot. It's something that's not a given this year given the depth of the field.

You cant compare US Nationals scores to 4CC scores. Just because D/F may have skated marginally better today than in their Nat'l LP (debatable), it certainly doesn't mean they were going to get a higher score. Nat'ls scoring gives some fans unrealistic expectations as to what skaters will score at ISU championships. Today was the first time Haven went for the 2A this season, and it wasn't really close. She also under-rotated the 3S and they didn't get a combo off (at Nat'ls they tacked on a 1T I believe). Their throws were slightly better than Nat'ls, but still a bit shaky and relatively low. Haven is a great performer and lovely to look at, but this was a difficult field to stand out in. Just because you think they have better flow than the Chinese (really debatable), it's not going to make a difference since the technical quality is primarily what determines a team's scoring potential. I also think their LP music might be better suited for a SP.

SK/K generally have stronger quality. Their twist and throws are massive and top quality, and they got all +3s today for their 3twist, which was one of the best ones I've seen them do. They also landed fully rotated 3S. Because of things like this, they have more potential to be competitive. It was also nice to see stronger flow, choreography, connection, and presence. There is maturation there, likely a result not being able to train the major elements for so many months. I also like that they finally have a LP that is soft and better shows their matching lines and good stretch. There is potential there, and it's slowly but surely coming out.

 

[yuna13]

to me S/H have the best SP but S/M have the best LP. lighthouse it's just gorgeous.
if the germans don't make mistake, they could win.

 

[daphenaxa]

to me S/H have the best SP but S/M have the best LP. lighthouse it's just gorgeous.
if the germans don't make mistake, they could win.

My dream podium would be Chinese, Germans and French!!! I love Stolbova too but I don't like their long.

 

[gold12345]

to me S/H have the best SP but S/M have the best LP. lighthouse it's just gorgeous.
if the germans don't make mistake, they could win.

I think I agree with this. I love both those programs. We'll have to see how S/M do with the throw 3A. Because they are relying on such a difficult throw in both programs, S/H might have an advantage. And their big element, the quad twist, is very reliable. But S/M are more likely than S/H to fully rotate at least two triples. And then you have to consider a team like T/M that has been doing so well this season. And there is D/R.

Pairs at Worlds is going to be intense this year. Things started out so slowly this fall with so many injuries/withdrawals, but things have been taken up a notch lately.

 

[solar]

My dream podium would be Chinese, Germans and French!!! I love Stolbova too but I don't like their long.

You mean Sui/Han, Savchenko/Massot, and James/Cipres? What a dream podium :luv17: