Given D/R's artistic progress in the SP with their "With or Without You" program, I am not sure "Muse 2.0" is cutting it. Anyone agree with me that they should consider bringing back their "Adele" program instead? I think that'd be a better match with their SP and would have the feels that "Muse 2.0" is lacking when not on.
2017 GP Skate America Pairs FS
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Feb 17, 2010
S/M program is majestic, and bruno's performance is constantly improving. His posture and interpretation looks better than last season.
I would agree with you. Plus SS were never that consistent. Jarring mistakes happened even when they won.
Savchenko really is the best. Knees from heaven.
This program skated clean should be above S/H. Ah I really wish S/H had chosen sth contemporary.
Not sure that "repeat-maneuver-your-partner-thingy" that Dean always incorporates in his choreo is necessary or elegant though.
This program skated clean should be above S/H. Ah I really wish S/H had chosen sth contemporary.
Not sure that "repeat-maneuver-your-partner-thingy" that Dean always incorporates in his choreo is necessary or elegant though.
i still prefer sui/han over s/m. s/h are more polished in their pair skating and EVERY ELEMENT. i appreciate turandot very much, this fs is dramatic and emotion, and they are selling it very well. i see no point that skating to a legendary program is a step back. they still perform it very well.
I just watched the event again. Then watched NHK.
Pairs event leaves me amazed.
I have struggled to understand the Tarasova Morosov push, angry even at their components scores, but after watching them, then Savchenko Massot, I felt a shocking turn of my opinion. Yes the choreography of SM is admirable, he is an improving eager and well trained block of wood, she very accomplished, there is no feeling of pair about them. He is trying so hard, it's very endearing. Their performance makes me feel nothing. It's so odd.what am I supposed to feel? Help me understand.
I didn't see the Canadians. The Chinese were unexpectedly good. (Artistically) They have such a unique look, I don't get the PC marks other than that they are pawns in a Russian game of chess.
Speaking of which, why do I feel Andreeva is being groomed to be the next ultra manipulative, all for country, Alla.
Pairs event leaves me amazed.
I have struggled to understand the Tarasova Morosov push, angry even at their components scores, but after watching them, then Savchenko Massot, I felt a shocking turn of my opinion. Yes the choreography of SM is admirable, he is an improving eager and well trained block of wood, she very accomplished, there is no feeling of pair about them. He is trying so hard, it's very endearing. Their performance makes me feel nothing. It's so odd.what am I supposed to feel? Help me understand.
I didn't see the Canadians. The Chinese were unexpectedly good. (Artistically) They have such a unique look, I don't get the PC marks other than that they are pawns in a Russian game of chess.
Speaking of which, why do I feel Andreeva is being groomed to be the next ultra manipulative, all for country, Alla.
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- Mar 26, 2017
And while everyone are considering to see royal battle between S/H and S/M Candy Guys will win everything! 
They already have pretty high PCS, consistency and quad twist which scoring higher than S/H's.
Also there are S/K who seem are back to their best condition. So you'll never know.
S/H are really loosing in plan of music choices and choreography this season. But they are so good pair skaters and have fantastic chemistry on the ice, that no other team have I would say.
S/M have unique and best FP but their SP is so-so. P/J SP one of best this season but they just can't skate it clean.
For me J/C the ones who improved in every aspect this season! So pity they can't get spot for the GPF
Go-go J/C!
They already have pretty high PCS, consistency and quad twist which scoring higher than S/H's. Also there are S/K who seem are back to their best condition. So you'll never know.
S/H are really loosing in plan of music choices and choreography this season. But they are so good pair skaters and have fantastic chemistry on the ice, that no other team have I would say.
S/M have unique and best FP but their SP is so-so. P/J SP one of best this season but they just can't skate it clean.
For me J/C the ones who improved in every aspect this season! So pity they can't get spot for the GPF
Go-go J/C!
I just now understood even more the spell Sui Han have over me. They don't try to to trick me with sweet nothings, the program is very bold calling maximum attention to their chemistry and unison. For any other team it would be a huge risk but for them it shows their emotion and true unity. I also find innovation yet done so easily it can be overlooked. With S and M I see innovation, I see courage, but it looks excruciating for him and so I feel hardship, but now get it that obvious effort doesn't mean faster higher stronger, nor unison and connection. It's lack of mastery.
Yu Zhang shocked me. What an exotic delicate flower she is, and grit considering her weak technique, he improves every year. Kudos to him. But this time I really felt connection between them, I felt some form of true togetherness or? Anyway, they shocked me. Then I watched D and R. I respect the obvious work ethic but I felt I was in a business meeting. The difference has never seemed so dramatic.
Yu Zhang shocked me. What an exotic delicate flower she is, and grit considering her weak technique, he improves every year. Kudos to him. But this time I really felt connection between them, I felt some form of true togetherness or? Anyway, they shocked me. Then I watched D and R. I respect the obvious work ethic but I felt I was in a business meeting. The difference has never seemed so dramatic.
I just rewatched Duhamel and Radford's FP from 2014-2015...this isn't really a muse 2.0...it's the exact same program, except with an obvious decrease in skating skills and transitions quality/quantity (they slow down/lose speed A LOT more in this program), with the removal of several difficult transitions....
A difficult entry into a lift, a nice transition after a spin, etc....they're all gone. For instance, the relatively smooth entry into the 4Sth is replaced with a long, complete stoppage that totally disrupts the program, the nice reverse lift into the 3LzTh is now nothing, the transition before the final lift is now non-existent, many of the transitions are not held as long/as sharply,etc.... I don't think I can list any area in which the current "muse" is better than the old one (and tbh I wasn't a big fan of the old one to begin with). Additionally, they slow down a lot more in the current program, the speed just isn't there...and if you think I'm off base, I suggest you watch the programs side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzMjkMs-vB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJuexQpgEBg
It's the elements too...though I agree that varies competition by competition. The twist isn't as clean, the lifts don't flow as well, etc.
It's not just a bad outing here, too...compare Skate Canada, where they were clean, to another skate from the 14-15 season too...significantly worse skating skills and transitions. There isn't any reason a judge can justify giving higher PCS to the current skate vs what they got in 14-15. The whole point of doing Muse 2.0 is to improve, but currently it just shows a regression in artistry. I honestly don't know what's going on.
A difficult entry into a lift, a nice transition after a spin, etc....they're all gone. For instance, the relatively smooth entry into the 4Sth is replaced with a long, complete stoppage that totally disrupts the program, the nice reverse lift into the 3LzTh is now nothing, the transition before the final lift is now non-existent, many of the transitions are not held as long/as sharply,etc.... I don't think I can list any area in which the current "muse" is better than the old one (and tbh I wasn't a big fan of the old one to begin with). Additionally, they slow down a lot more in the current program, the speed just isn't there...and if you think I'm off base, I suggest you watch the programs side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzMjkMs-vB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJuexQpgEBg
It's the elements too...though I agree that varies competition by competition. The twist isn't as clean, the lifts don't flow as well, etc.
It's not just a bad outing here, too...compare Skate Canada, where they were clean, to another skate from the 14-15 season too...significantly worse skating skills and transitions. There isn't any reason a judge can justify giving higher PCS to the current skate vs what they got in 14-15. The whole point of doing Muse 2.0 is to improve, but currently it just shows a regression in artistry. I honestly don't know what's going on.
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- Aug 1, 2011
Hmm, that's such a De gusitbus post because Tarasova and Morozov make me feel like I should be doing something else...like laundry. Flossing my teeth. Cleaning the grout in the bathroom.
But hey...de gustibus...
Bruno's FP in terms of interp isn't on the level of the SP--he isn't really creating a character. And while he's still a bit wooden, it's far closer to balsa wood than the oak he was just last season.
That FP too has some absolutely stunning choreography, but the real wowser moments for me come with the lifts...especially the one armed one. Just wowowowowow.
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- Mar 7, 2015
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well that's not really news. At ACI : they had a really rough time with muse 2.0... it wasn't working out for them. But then, they had to go to Italy for some really cool shows... so they came home with just a couple weeks before Skate Canada and had to find a solution. They even thought about making a brand new LP altogether. They said they tried to skate to muse 1.0, in the order of the elements they had back then, to give them a chance to land their elements with confidence. They managed that at Skate Canada... Whether or not they had time/ are working on fixing things, I cannot tell. I haven't compared both programs either... i felt there was at least one big transition missing into the throw lutz... but I felt there was more flow and confidence... they also removed some dismount to one lift that was something they always did and looked tired (when Meagan exits between Eric's legs)...
So, to me, and accordingly to what they have said : this LP is not in a finished state... who knows? They may even be working on other options and just keeping this for GP season.... Or they may be planning to add things as the season goes... but in the end, what matters is that they feel comfortable. I disagree with skating skills though as I think that they are much improved.
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- May 2, 2014
not to drail this thread but thats what you said for them at NHK, from NHK pairs thread, or am i missing your point?
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- Sep 15, 2017
The way I see it, Sui/Han are evolving or trying to be Shen/Zhao no 2. Not surprising since Zhao is their coach.
Not surprising too if Sui/Han later announce they're in a relationship.
Shen/Zhao and Pang/Tong got married, so there's a precedence ie their seniors ended up together without compromising results. In general, relationships among China athletes are frowned upon as it's seen as distraction.
Some sports have managed to break thru with the athletes winning OG gold, silver while being in relationship with team mate(badminton's Lin Dan and his now wife Xie Xing Fang)
Another factor is the problem if they break up - China lost a 2016 Olympic gold due to partners breaking up but still need to play together. The awkwardness through out the games was so glaring
So they're having a really tough time with their very important Olympic programs, and they go to Italy for some cool shows for two weeks? Maybe not the best idea. If they were to make some major change in program, between ACI or Skate Canada and now, you would think they would have done so? i really hope they do improve the program, but as of now, it's clearly a step down from their 2014-2015 Muse program, even in skating skills...I don't see how anyone could watch those two side by side and come to the conclusion that their skating skills improved...there is much more speed, one-footed skating, and quality and quantity of transitions in the old one, with several direct comparisons...watch the two side by side for yourself. Anyways, I don't know if its the program, or in general, it was kind of concerning to see that their skating skills not as good as before since the exact same program gave a pretty good basis for comparison.
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- May 21, 2009
Just really dislike this kind of push or pressure! Skating is skating itself, why always link to marriage! Especially when Cong has a girlfriend, and Sui/Han already said many times they are just good friends not couple!
It’s figure skating not tv drama show.
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- Sep 14, 2008
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I hope Aliona isn't backing away from the throw 3Axel for the rest of the season, how are they going to beat the Chinese like this? They have a technical deficit now.
I also would have preferred Adele, ideally the very first version of the program they ever did, where the throws came early in the program (the second one worked really well with the music going quiet and picking up again as the throw happened) and the jump combo came later. I think that's the best they've ever done.
I also would have preferred Adele, ideally the very first version of the program they ever did, where the throws came early in the program (the second one worked really well with the music going quiet and picking up again as the throw happened) and the jump combo came later. I think that's the best they've ever done.
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- Jan 10, 2014
Few takeaways for me:
To me, judges seem to be giving pairs the benefit of the doubt in PCS by mostly looking at the strongest skater in a pair (specially in skating skills), but nothing too crazy to rant about (at least not here, lol.
By watering down their throws (in exchange for some consistency perhaps) S/M seem to be solidifying their position as co favorites for Olympic gold along with Sui/Han..the battle for the bronze will be among the S/K, and the technicians, D/R, T/M, Y/Z, and even J/C if several teams make mistakes.
To me, judges seem to be giving pairs the benefit of the doubt in PCS by mostly looking at the strongest skater in a pair (specially in skating skills), but nothing too crazy to rant about (at least not here, lol.
By watering down their throws (in exchange for some consistency perhaps) S/M seem to be solidifying their position as co favorites for Olympic gold along with Sui/Han..the battle for the bronze will be among the S/K, and the technicians, D/R, T/M, Y/Z, and even J/C if several teams make mistakes.
She had a flowless landing on the 3s, which gave her no speed to launch into the 2T.
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