Said it much better than me. I'm tired of these discussion about skaters with "potential."
2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
Said it much better than me. I'm tired of these discussion about skaters with "potential."
We have to remember that host picks come first, so USFS is pushing Starr when they could have picked any lady to skate at home who wasn't Bradie the national champ. It could have been Angela, Courtney, Karen, or Mariah, but the fed picked Starr for Skate America. We have to put it into perspective that if she wasn't picked for SA, her best chance would have been a late sub because her 2017-18 SB is actually not that high (at least relatively).
I never have understood the thinking behind giving a skater only one GP event, as that basically makes it impossible for the skater to make the finals ----and certainly is an uneven playing field for accomplishing that.
Isn't the prime goal of participating in the GP to make the finals?
Isn't the prime goal of participating in the GP to make the finals?
Here's what happened. Starr was sixth at nationals. Bradie was 1st (2 spots), Mirai was second (sitting out), Karen was 3rd (2 spots), Ashley was 4th (sitting out), and Mariah was 5th (2 spots). Starr got SA because of this reason and none else. Everyone else available placed under her at nationals. That's what people need to keep in perspective.
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- Jan 23, 2009
Depending on when the GP event is held and how they placed at the last nationals, someone could get a bye from regionals/sectionals by competing on the Grand Prix. In the olden days, there weren't as many senior Bs, so to even get 1 spot on the GP was nice because you could get international experience. Now there's this new Challenger series, so people who can't get Grand Prix spots can still get international score minimums.
The Grand Prix still the primary way of getting exposure for new skaters. I don't think Bradie Tennel got 2 GP spots in the fall before the Olympics. It was her one (?) performance at Skate America that got everyone's attention.
I don't think that was the only reason Starr got picked because, if you're going by that logic, Caroline Zhang (5th at 2017 U.S Nats) should have been the TBD at Skate America in 2017. After all, the fed would not have known how strong of a showing Bradie (who was 9th at 2017 U.S. Nats) would have emerged over the summer.
ETA: If you're going by that logic, Amber Glenn should have been initially selected for 2017 Skate America (not even the TBD). She was the highest placing lady at Nationals who wasn't a lock for 2 GPs and actually had an SB (34th), which would maybe have warranted her one due to the necessity of filling up spaces, but ultimately didn't for initial selection.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
If we’re being honest, there are plenty of US skaters with two events who have no chance of making the final due to depth of field.
Starr is more miss than hit for me, but I’m pretty tired of seeing this one particular sentiment — “I wish X had more events, so Y should have lost/placed lower/etc.” It’s not just this thread, but yeah. There are many people I’d like to see get two events (or even one), but I don’t begrudge those that outscored them. Them’s the breaks.
It’d probably be more productive to start a thread exploring what, if any, changes could be made to give more spots (national team size increases, more contenders at the GPF and more GP events, etc.).
The difference is this year there is a lot of skaters that are sitting out this season that would have otherwise gotten spots. Ashley or Mirai would've gotten the SA spot if they competed this year. Last year they chose Ashley and Karen for SA and Bradie earned the TBA. There simply weren't enough spots for Carolina. Even if they were, USFS reserves these unearned spots for skaters with future potential. For example Mariah Bell got 6th in 2015 skating clean and earned a spot at SA the following season.
As for Amber in 2017, the SA spots were already decided. She was actually very weak at nationals the prior year. She scored 8th with a messy program. So USFS wasn't willing to hand her a spot based on just her national result. She needed to compete for the SA spot. She ended up getting a paltry 150 at her only summer competition. Bradie skated four times over summer scoring around 188-190 thus earning the spot.
BTW the TBA spot and the two initial placements are very different. One is for the national champion. Another is either a "draw"/rival spot, like Ashley Wagner in 2016 and 2017, chosen to attract more audience. If they chose not to do that then that second spot is a developmental spot for a new skater that do well at nationals. The TBA spot is now strictly a developmental spot going to the best performer during the summer. That means Bradie, then Starr and finally Meagan.
We can go around and around. But special circumstances made the spot available and they gave it to Starr, who earned it by her strong performance at US nationals.
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- Mar 3, 2014
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How in the world can "making the GPF" be the only goal of all the skaters in the GP?
I'm sure Megan Wessenberg was thrilled with her one and only GP slot, and a fine job she did with it.:agree: I'm not saying she wouldn't be more thrilled with two, but still .... plenty of skaters everywhere have no chance of making the final and are just happy to skate
I'm sure Megan Wessenberg was thrilled with her one and only GP slot, and a fine job she did with it.:agree: I'm not saying she wouldn't be more thrilled with two, but still .... plenty of skaters everywhere have no chance of making the final and are just happy to skate
More spots for the US? There's only one they that they can do. The ladies have to score higher at CS events. If you don't have a high ISU seasons best you don't get spot, that simple.
Maybe we should have a posted thread that explains how a skater is chosen on the GP. There seems to be a lot of confusion about this.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
No, I’m not advocating more spots for the US. I just think that rather than gnashing our teeth over who got 0/1/2 spots, it might be worth starting a thread asking what, if any, changes people would like to see. What if the highest placing nation at Worlds got 4 or 5 spots instead of 3, with 3 becoming the average? Should more skaters make the cut for the GP Final, and if so, how many more events would be needed for balance? Can this even be managed due to resource allocation issues? &c. tl;dr rather than complain a given nation has “only” 3 spots for its talent pool or that a skater given two spots should have only been given one... I’d be interested in hearing what, if any, ideas people have about reforming the whole system.
Do you mean four or five spots at worlds and everyone else gets three? If so, heck no! Worlds is long enough as it is!
If you mean GP spots, again no. The powerful feds already have too much power in choosing spots. It would leave even less room for other nations.
The Grand Prix is one of the most political competitions with so much drama from start to end. There is no pleasing anyone when the largest feds get to make the final decision on who competes in their own competitions. It’s why I honest don’t take GPF medals as seriously as Worlds. There is no clever politicking that can maneuver your favored skater to worlds, they have to earn it.
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- Mar 15, 2018
But the GPF is a very coveted medal, when a new skater can really shine and make a case internationally to boost PCs and make that World team, while competing with the top skaters.
Also, at World, you know that the top skaters will be at the top 10 and new and unknown skaters will be buried.
This is how Bradie came to be known more and make the Olympic team, and then the World team.
Nathan as a 1st year senior, battled mightly with Top senior guys and medaled high at his GPF, shocking the figure skating world, and boosting his presence so he can compete internationally.
Also, at World, you know that the top skaters will be at the top 10 and new and unknown skaters will be buried.
This is how Bradie came to be known more and make the Olympic team, and then the World team.
Nathan as a 1st year senior, battled mightly with Top senior guys and medaled high at his GPF, shocking the figure skating world, and boosting his presence so he can compete internationally.
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- Sep 8, 2016
Are all the Regionals championships over yet? When does Sectionals begin?
Seems like regionals are over. The results are here: https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/regionals/
So I have been reading the last few pages of posts, and one thing I don’t get is why isn’t figure skating a college sport like gymnastic. Because if you have that, then kids that are talented but couldn’t compete due to injury can then compete for NCAA and most can get a college scholarship. And I mean it would help our adult figure skaters like Karen or Ashley or even Gracie to have a way to continue their training than to skip a year or hold of college. Not to mentioned, wouldn’t it help Nathan too if Yale has a ice rink?
Anyway, can’t wait for Skate Canada. I really like Mariah Bell, I really hope she can just trust her training and just slay it
Yale has a rink and Nathan uses it to train.
I realize it’s a coveted medal, but the process disgust me. Think about it.
First the placements. The medalist at worlds will automatically never meet each other at the GP, reducing head to head competition and increasing their likelihood of making the final. Same with 4th through 6th finishers.
The big feds barter with each other about where their skaters get placed. That means they can chose fields with less depth to place their skaters, against boosting their chances.
Then big feds boost the chances of their domestic skaters by chosing weaker skaters off the list.
Domestic skaters tend to score higher because they have a huge home crowd cheering for them. Once again, boosting their chances.
I’ve noticed a tendency for some competition to depress scores of other competitors, since strangely someone score can drop several points depending on their location.
There are even more reasons I just don’t like the GP. I like seeing my favorites, but the entire system is just too rigged. I don’t like it at all.
How in the world can "making the GPF" be the only goal of all the skaters in the GP?
I'm sure Megan Wessenberg was thrilled with her one and only GP slot, and a fine job she did with it.:agree: I'm not saying she wouldn't be more thrilled with two, but still .... plenty of skaters everywhere have no chance of making the final and are just happy to skate
If Gold drops out, perhaps Wessenberg will get this spot?
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- Mar 15, 2018
Sorry difficult for me to quote.
It is actually a good idea that they separate the Top skaters across the GP series because it would become mini World in any of the Location (so what is the purpose of World?) and then each other major Federation would complain that they dont have any top skaters and then admissions to their own GP would be low.
For example, this GP for the Men is actually set up very nicely. You have Nathan- Shoma- Michal not meet. Then they also made sure that Hanyu does not meet with Nathan and Shoma, making the GPF more exciting.
Also, do you think new or low level skaters would like to go to a GP event when 10 of the Top guys are competing? What are their chances at that point.
Also, it allows the Top men to get use to their programs and progress. And to be fair to the Top Skaters, they did win medals to the World Championship and worked for it, so I would give them some benefits.
It actually benefits all Top, Low Level, and New skaters.
Each Federation front the bills and expenses for the event and the skaters. If I am paying for the skater to come here, I better choose the skater who I want to come. And create the event that I am paying all the expenses for.
Can you really argue that they dont decide the skaters when they are paying for everything? You would choice which restaurant you want to eat because you are paying for it?
Of course there are politics, but that is ALL sports. When you have prize money, broadcasting, major events, expenses, bills, etc, you will ALWAYS have politics. No sport is not without it.
It is actually a good idea that they separate the Top skaters across the GP series because it would become mini World in any of the Location (so what is the purpose of World?) and then each other major Federation would complain that they dont have any top skaters and then admissions to their own GP would be low.
For example, this GP for the Men is actually set up very nicely. You have Nathan- Shoma- Michal not meet. Then they also made sure that Hanyu does not meet with Nathan and Shoma, making the GPF more exciting.
Also, do you think new or low level skaters would like to go to a GP event when 10 of the Top guys are competing? What are their chances at that point.
Also, it allows the Top men to get use to their programs and progress. And to be fair to the Top Skaters, they did win medals to the World Championship and worked for it, so I would give them some benefits.
It actually benefits all Top, Low Level, and New skaters.
Each Federation front the bills and expenses for the event and the skaters. If I am paying for the skater to come here, I better choose the skater who I want to come. And create the event that I am paying all the expenses for.
Can you really argue that they dont decide the skaters when they are paying for everything? You would choice which restaurant you want to eat because you are paying for it?
Of course there are politics, but that is ALL sports. When you have prize money, broadcasting, major events, expenses, bills, etc, you will ALWAYS have politics. No sport is not without it.
I agree that spreading the higher level skaters is better for competition, but it adds an advantage for those who are seeded. I get the feds are paying the expenses, but that doesn’t mean they should pad their events with weaker skaters to help their own skates. Sorry, but I just don’t like the Grand Prix. Too much manipulation and not enough intergrity.
