2018 Olympic Figure Skating Team Event Day 3

[readernick]

Zagitova is the opposite of bland. She holds the viewer in rapt attention throughout. (Me, anyway).

Medvedeva's jumps are outstanding, except the double Axel. Wonderful technique.

Personally, I think that these two will be the 2018 Olympic gold and silver medalists despite our impassioned objections.

(But go Daleman! :yes: )

Oh, I agree that they will win and , very likely, their wins will be justified. People object to the PCS inflation, the programs, and backloading not the girls themselves. Given how hard they work, they deserve the medals. Will be happy to see them on the podium.

But, I can't agree that Zagitova holds the viewer rapt. Her jumps are amazing but I am so bored during the first portion of her skate and then feel the last section is messy and done at 2X the ideal speed as she rushes to get elements done.

Other girls could get away with backloading, I would love to watch Kostner or Asada do step sequences and just admire the SS. Alena K in juniors holds me rapt with her SS and her extensions. But, for me Alina does not have great SS or extension and I feel bored. (Many people feel the way I do/ others hold your opinion.. no problem with that). I think Alina probably has a really spitfire personality and I think she could be so much better with another program. Medvedeva too. But, though I hate her program too, it is not nearly as bad and her SS are far superior to Alina's so I can appreciate her skating more.

Anyway best of luck to all the skaters! I hope they all skate lights out!

 

[WeakAnkles]

People object to the PCS inflation, the programs, and backloading not the girls themselves. Given how hard they work, they deserve the medals. Will be happy to see them on the podium.

This.

:agree:

 

[kwanfan4]

IJS has pretty much ruined artistry for female skaters. We have a few--Satoko Miyahara, Carolina. Mao was artistic. I was not a fan of Yuna's overall artistry but her skating did have artistic elements. There are too many technical demands to spend much time on artistry, especially since it isn't rewarded. Miming and smiling are not artistry. It's more of a total body thing--the stretch of leg, the point of the toe, the balletic arms. I think Peggy Fleming was the first truly artistic ladies skater.

Michelle Kwan always got very high marks for artistry. Now it is all about the jumps, very little,if any, artistry is left.

 

[Elucidus]

Michelle Kwan always got very high marks for artistry. Now it is all about the jumps, very little,if any, artistry is left.

Again, just watch Kostornaia performance. Oh, and Scherbakova's too. And after that - say it again.

 

[Skater Boy]

I know we have strong opinions and to be honest as evidenced by this site crashing so much during competition due to all the olympic skating fans (many not hear of or seen during the rest of the time) there is such passion. Team Canada was fortunate to win the gold but deservedly. They put out their best and they did it when it counted. Even though skaters like Osmond and Chan in particular struggled throughout they didn't give up and got the job done. It is too bad about Weapo not being allowed to compete. But Japan made some major tactical errors - a bronze wouldhave been hugely possible.

I hate the hate towards Chan; I don't sense as much hate even against the Russian ladies or Carolina for what people are saying is overmarking. Well in my opinion the current scoring system which got perverted due to more quads being done than expected and no where to go in respect to pcs scoring does not consider such beautiful stroking and edges. Iknow this is not 1900's or 1960s but Chan's and Kostner's skating especially Patty's pure skating skills edges and all would be gold I appreciate this is a different time but the empahsison the jump is kind of sad. Patrick deserved to win; he skated badly but others did worse in theteam event. As poorly as Chan didhe actually did better than anticiated.Idon't thinkanyone thought he wouldget18 out of 20 pts. Not bad at all.

 

[jenm]

For those of you wondering why Evgenia and Alina are receiving more criticism for their scores then for other skaters, it’s because they are benefiting the most from the inflation. Evgenia broke several WRs solely because the judges kept getting excited and wanted to launch her status to outer space. Whether you care about WRs or not, you can’t deny that they do give a sense of distance between the holder and the others, which should NOT be the case. As for Alina, she skyrocketed from a junior girl status to the highest peak all in just a few months. That’s just plain unfair to everyone else who have been working just as hard.

The thing is, while Evgenia and Alina display very impressive consistency, are they really that much better than the rest of the field? Honestly, other than the 3Lo, I can name skaters in recent years who can do the same elements as Evgenia better than her. For 3Lz, look at Tuktamysheva. For layback, look at Chen or Miyahara. For footwork, look at Kostner. And many more. Same goes for Alina. I will admit that her 3Lz-3Lo, flying camel, and 3F are certainly some of the best out there. But everything else is being marked as near-perfect, which again should not be true because there are people who can do them better.

And a few pages back, I saw some people talking about how Mirai should gain equal criticism for her PCS with Alina, since they are probably at the same level artistically. So in this case, they should be having almost the same PCS. Why on earth should Alina be beating Mirai by a whopping 11 points here? Both skated clean.

Currently I think that Evgenia, Alina, Kaetlyn, and Carolina are the most overscored. But Evgenia’s and Alina’s inflations are just up to another level...

Preach.

I love Zhenya. And I respect Alina's technical skills so much. Also, same sentiments with Kaetlyn and Carolina recently. But you can't deny that they are the poster girls for inflated and unfair scores with respect to the entire field. This is why I don't root for anyone. I'm just here for the performances they put out. Because if I cared much about the scoring, I will never get to enjoy figure skating as the scoring is truly rotten.

 

[charlotte14]

Uhmm is it just me or Mirai's 3A and 3-3 and even the 3lz might have goten UR calls under a strict panel? I would give her the benefit of doubt because I love her and biased but still... the 3A was really borderline.
I would say her 3A was still the best out there in the team event including men lol.

 

[FSGMT]

As it is, either Evegenia or Alina could fall twice and probably still beat everyone else! At least that's the way it seems to me.

I'm afraid Alina could fall twice both in the SP and in the FS and still get 210+. She's in Julia's 2014 position: they all want her to win so badly, she just needs not to throw it away.

 

[Artistry]

Is there a thread for discussion of men’s (team) event? We’ve seen now that the new system is no less controversial for public (most don’t get scoring of Rippon, for example), are turned off as casual fans. I’d like to talk about that too. The effect of this complexity on the sport. The fact that Rippon’s artistic mark (components) was close to those that fell means the system isn’t functioning properly.

Can it be tweaked to reflect bigger deductions for falls?

 

[Shayuki]

Is there a thread for discussion of men’s (team) event? We’ve seen now that the new system is no less controversial for public (most don’t get scoring of Rippon, for example), are turned off as casual fans. I’d like to talk about that too. The effect of this complexity on the sport. The fact that Rippon’s artistic mark (components) was close to those that fell means the system isn’t functioning properly.

Can it be tweaked to reflect bigger deductions for falls?

They are already going to tweak it like that starting next season, I thought?

 

[Logirl]

I disagree

I like Mira but she is not artistic.

When I look at Alina long program I see a ballerina. And in my opinion ballerinas are artistic.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Michelle Kwan always got very high marks for artistry. Now it is all about the jumps, very little,if any, artistry is left.

As far as I am concerned there very much is artistry left, it's the problem of how the judges score things.

I'll take Juniors here as an example because they're the ones 'at risk' IMO with the current situation and they will 'inherit' and try to continue to 'carry' the skating world very soon. When Kostornaya skated, I had to giggle to myself a little because there was a significant number of people who didn't even notice her FS was fuly backloaded. The thing is, this Junior for her age, and even for compared to those who are quite a bit older, is just that good. She's good in both aspects of skating so when you look at her, it's one whole where everything fits. I'm amazed by Alina's technical side and I laugh and laugh at her PCS but when it comes to Kostornaya? I yell give her more.

And it is about the scoring because take a look at Sasha Trusova's PCS and Kostornaya's. At best, Kostornaya gets just a smidgen more for her FS. I am not sure there is even a full point of difference.

So my question to the ISU (and FFan got me thinking about this yesterday with the Midori Ito post) is - why should any Junior work on being so good overall, when they aren't being rewarded for it? What is the point when they can grow up to be an Alina? Max out the tech and voila PCS is there. Why should Sasha Trusova bother when the second mark is there and if she can keep her jumps, will continue to be there?

Does ISU want well rounded skaters or not? Currently the answer is obviously - no.

 

[[email protected]]

As it is, either Evegenia or Alina could fall twice and probably still beat everyone else! At least that's the way it seems to me.

The problem, well the problem for Alina and Evgenia "fans" is that they don't fall twice. At least they did not so far.

 

[da96103]

Obviously this is my blatant way of referencing Leslie Jones as much as possible, but she seems to understand why Alina scored so high.

https://twitter.com/Lesdoggg/status/962891161114415104
https://twitter.com/Lesdoggg/status/962891775886217216

I would be interested to see what she tweets when she sees the ice turned yellow after Yuxuru skates.

 

[da96103]

Thank you. I had never heard of her.

I've switched my entertainment viewing to more foreign programs and movies, and I see that was the right decision.

She does not appear to be an actress I would enjoy.

She was one of the female ghostbusters last year, and she is a regular in Saturday Night Live.

 

[da96103]

Mirai has artistry within her, but she got hammered so much for URs she shut it down to focus on the technical side. She has both technical and artistic ability, but struggles to integrate both into her competitive performances. So she isn't the ideal complete skater (I don't think we have one in ladies at the moment). But she's still pretty great and I'm over the moon for her.

I hope she is not retired after this. She should go on for the next 4 years and be Mama Mirai for the team in 2022.

 

[da96103]

Funny I think the same about plushenko in 2010 very robbed by Canada lol

Lysacek from US won gold though.

Maybe you were thinking of Buttle and Joubert at Worlds.

 

[da96103]

I hope Rika comes out next year and rules the world. If you want technical diffculty, it is there in spades and her programs are lovely too. Not only are her 3A lovely but her quads look close too. ( at least as close to what we have seen from Eteri’s students). As the previous poster mentioned, most of Eteri’s girls don’t even have good 2A but I don’t think that is true across the boards. A few might be able to get a 3A

I think Eteri would cancel 3A class and offer 4S class straightaway.

Ladies skating in the next 4 years:

Russian quads vs American/Japanese triple axels.

 

[da96103]

The only thing that counts as "artistry" for the ladies is a slow, serious, delicate, uber feminine ballerina skate. (Ashley would be one exception, maybe Kaetlyn to an extent). The minute someone deviates from that, they are considered "juniorish." I imagine they lose PCS as well, though I haven't analyzed it. The men and dance teams have to do modern dance-like pieces or skate to whiny ballads. (Kolyada is the exception) Since the IJS, the routines have become more cookie-cutter. Someone like Elvis Stojko or Surya Bonaly wouldn't make it today.

Mirai's artistry was fine when she could get away with a cute routine. Now that she has to be an abandoned Vietnamese war bride, she seems kind of stiff. She probably can't express her real personality on the ice.

Next season she should skate as Ellen, the second American wife who scared that her husband would go back to the Vietnamese first wife.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I think Eteri would cancel 3A class and offer 4S class straightaway.

Kostornaya is working on both the 3A and the quad