2018 Rostelecom Cup Ladies Short Program

[twirlingblades]

Just because the US field isn't as deep as it used to be doesn't mean that there aren't up-and-comers who could potentially have been competitive at this event, or at least more competitive than Gracie. Look at someone like Megan Wessenberg, who did great at Skate America - why doesn't she deserve this spot at Rostelecom? We all know that the more national/international exposure a skater gets, the more likely they are to receive better PCS marks which, like it or not, are heavily influenced by a skater's reputation and level of recognition. Getting this exposure and the chance to skate in front of international judges again would have been such a great opportunity for Megan. Why is Gracie more deserving of this spot? This isn't meant to demean her at all, but it is clear that she is just not ready for this level of competition, and there are other US ladies that I'm sure would have loved to be here. Why not do something like in gymnastics, where previous top competitors who have been out of the sport/injured perform in front of a panel of officials to show that they are back in shape and ready to compete on the national/international level? Or something like the Russian test skates? I just don't see how Gracie being at this competition is good for her, or for anybody else.

Since this is russia’s event, they pick who goes. If they wanted to invite Megan W, then they could have. Plus, no one knew Megan was going to skate as well as she did at SA. If Gracie WD early on, Megan might’ve gotten that spot (or other skaters). But spots were assigned all at once.

If you’re arguing that USFS shouldn’t have put Gracie up for GP consideration at all, then yeah, that’s a fair argument. However, she was within the rules of getting GP consideration as a comeback skater.

Also, sometimes skaters coming back do skate in front of judges. Kwan did it for the 2006 Olympics (although she WD).

I said this in another comment but the USFS might be allowing Gracie to forge her path for a reason. Whether fans think it’s fair or not- US ladies skating is very, very weak. If this outing helps her in the long run in some way, USFS might be willing to take that risk— plus, USFS didn’t know that Karen was going to WD, putting Gracie as the only US lady.

Also, it was one program. People freak out and make premature hot takes all the time and it gets a little annoying (remember how Evgenia was “done” after finishing 7th in the short?) Maybe she’ll have a good long. Maybe she won’t. Maybe she’ll do great at nationals. But to say that the USFS and/or Gracie made the wrong decision is an argument that will just go in circles. Also, how do you know that going to this competition is not good for Gracie? Have you talked to her? Do you work with her coaching staff? Just getting back out there might be the first step she needs. But we don’t know that because none of us know what’s she’s thinking.

 

[lala34345]

Since this is russia’s event, they pick who goes. If they wanted to invite Megan W, then they could have. Plus, no one knew Megan was going to skate as well as she did at SA. If Gracie WD early on, Megan might’ve gotten that spot (or other skaters). But spots were assigned all at once.

If you’re arguing that USFS shouldn’t have put Gracie up for GP consideration at all, then yeah, that’s a fair argument. However, she was within the rules of getting GP consideration as a comeback skater.

Also, sometimes skaters coming back do skate in front of judges. Kwan did it for the 2006 Olympics (although she WD).

I said this in another comment but the USFS might be allowing Gracie to forge her path for a reason. Whether fans think it’s fair or not- US ladies skating is very, very weak. If this outing helps her in the long run in some way, USFS might be willing to take that risk— plus, USFS didn’t know that Karen was going to WD, putting Gracie as the only US lady.

Also, it was one program. People freak out and make premature hot takes all the time and it gets a little annoying (remember how Evgenia was “done” after finishing 7th in the short?) Maybe she’ll have a good long. Maybe she won’t. Maybe she’ll do great at nationals. But to say that the USFS and/or Gracie made the wrong decision is an argument that will just go in circles. Also, how do you know that going to this competition is not good for Gracie? Have you talked to her? Do you work with her coaching staff? Just getting back out there might be the first step she needs. But we don’t know that because none of us know what’s she’s thinking.

I hope she does great in the free and proves me wrong, I really do. There would be nothing better than seeing her out there, feeling triumphant and great about herself. We'll see. But if it's another performance like this one, well, from my point of view I can't see how this is good for her. Again, I've dealt with similar mental health issues and there is such a thing as "too much, too soon" when you're recovering from mental illness. Easing yourself back into life, into work, and making the changes you need to make in order to stay healthy take time. If she's happy with how she does, then that's great for her, I'd be happy for her. But in my opinion, from my personal experiences, this is not a choice that I would regard as a healthy choice.

 

[Tavi...]

Just to give everyone some context, the next lowest short program score this entire Grand Prix season is Alaine Chartrand at Skate America - 46.99. That's almost 10 full points higher than Gracie got here. Again, I don't wish to demean her in any way; I admire that she is making this comeback and trying to overcome her demons - I've dealt with similar mental health issues and know how terribly hard it can be to get healthy again. But it is clear from her skate today that she is just not ready for this level of competition - I don't see any other way to look at this.

Since Alaine has been competing for the last 2 years and Gracie hasn’t, that’s not a very good argument.

If you wanted to make a positive comparison, though, you could try looking at the fact that Alaine recovered nicely in the FS at SA, or that at Skate Canada she improved her SP score almost 15 points.

 

[lala34345]

Since Alaine has been competing for the last 2 years and Gracie hasn’t, that’s not a very good argument.

If you wanted to make a positive comparison, though, you could try looking at the fact that Alaine recovered nicely in the FS at SA, or that at Skate Canada she improved her SP score almost 15 points.

It is a fair comparison in that they both competed a short program, with the same required elements, in front of judges with comparable expertise and international experience, at events that are considered equal in their level of prestige and the level of competition expected. This has nothing to do with previous competitive history - it's about the level of skill and performance that is expected when you enter such an event. This is why we have a standardized scoring system - so that scores can be compared against each other. I'm not saying that Gracie can't improve in the long, or that she won't improve at her next competition. It's about this event at this competition and the fact that her score was not a competitive score. In roughly 60 ladies' short program scores so far in the Grand Prix, this score is more than 20% lower than the next lowest score. That's the comparison that I'm making.

 

[neusw]

I’m not sure how their group is structured, but if you watched Alina’s full practice session video it seems like Dudakov is lil bet’s primary coach. He was the main person advising her throughout the session. Even during and after lil bet’s run through, Daniil and Eteri we’re focused on Alina, while Dudakov was focused on lil bet. Maybe improving her tech is their primary focus right now. Might explain the kiss & cry situation today.

 

[brens78]

Didn't watch the event last night as I was fast asleep and OH NO Mako! :sad21:

Did the ladies have a bad night like the men too?

 

[Tavi...]

It is a fair comparison in that they both competed a short program, with the same required elements, in front of judges with comparable expertise and international experience, at events that are considered equal in their level of prestige and the level of competition expected. This has nothing to do with previous competitive history - it's about the level of skill and performance that is expected when you enter such an event. This is why we have a standardized scoring system - so that scores can be compared against each other. I'm not saying that Gracie can't improve in the long, or that she won't improve at her next competition. It's about this event at this competition and the fact that her score was not a competitive score. In roughly 60 ladies' short program scores so far in the Grand Prix, this score is more than 20% lower than the next lowest score. That's the comparison that I'm making.

It’s the level of skill and performance expected by you, apparently. But people enter competitions for different reasons: some to win, others to gain experience or earn world standing points, and so forth. What Gracie is doing is unusual and her low score reflects that. But why you’re so bent out of shape about it mystifies me. She’s the one who had to skate that performance and keep going after she popped and fell. She’s the one who had to sit in the knc and hear those scores. She’s the one who has to have the courage to go on. If her performance offended you because it wasn’t “skilled” enough, then perhaps you should just rethink watching competitions.

 

[moonvine]

I think Gracie just had a bad outing. I think the verdict is out. I think she has to get used to her new body (which I like btw) and get some strength and stamina back. I was happy as hell to see her again no matter the result.

I agree.

 

[moonvine]

I loved Gracie's choreo and the way she performed. She seemed very mature and sure of herself.

She's working on her artistry. She wants to be known for that. https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/11/14/gracie-gold-rostelecom-cup-comeback/

 

[Metis]

This is the last thing I’m going to say about Gracie: we all have skaters we miss and wish hadn’t retired, had kept going a few more seasons even when their medal prospects were dim, and/or came back from retirement for one more season. I understand — although I don’t agree — with the sentiment that Gracie shouldn’t have begun her reemergence on the GP. But it also seems to me that we can’t have it both ways: either we let skaters return to competition and go through the natural growth of retraining their competitive nerves, performing their jumps in actual competition, etc., and accept that they’ll be less than perfect — or else I never want to hear “I miss so-and-so” ever again. You either trust the skater to do what they think is best and decide how seriously to pursue skating again or you accept all retirements as final, no whining or longing for what might have been.

 

[moonvine]

Some people have been saying that USFS should’ve given Gracie’s spot to someone else... my question is, who? That’s a genuine question. US ladies skating isn’t deep and many skaters have 2 assignments already.

They already went down to what, the 17th place lady at last year's Nationals with Megan Wessenberg. There's not too much further down to go.

 

[Seren]

It’s the level of skill and performance expected by you, apparently. But people enter competitions for different reasons: some to win, others to gain experience or earn world standing points, and so forth. What Gracie is doing is unusual and her low score reflects that. But why you’re so bent out of shape about it mystifies me. She’s the one who had to skate that performance and keep going after she popped and fell. She’s the one who had to sit in the knc and hear those scores. She’s the one who has to have the courage to go on. If her performance offended you because it wasn’t “skilled” enough, then perhaps you should just rethink watching competitions.

Exactly.

 

[katymay]

I do hope that in the future, the USFSA considers copying Russia's "test skates" for juniors and seniors. It forces skaters to obtain a a level of readiness to compete, (by a certain date) and we could avoid a repeat of sending someone that is so far from ready to compete at this level. The surprises like Megan would get two assignments, and those who do not meet min. requirements (not just Gracie, there is another US skater who has been pretty disappointing this year) would get only one assignment, if that. Remember that last year Bradie got hosed with only one assignment. If there had been a test skate, and her skating evaluated, she probably would have gotten two and maybe even made the final.

 

[karne]

I do hope that in the future, the USFSA considers copying Russia's "test skates" for juniors and seniors. It forces skaters to obtain a a level of readiness to compete, (by a certain date) and we could avoid a repeat of sending someone that is so far from ready to compete at this level. The surprises like Megan would get two assignments, and those who do not meet min. requirements (not just Gracie, there is another US skater who has been pretty disappointing this year) would get only one assignment, if that. Remember that last year Bradie got hosed with only one assignment. If there had been a test skate, and her skating evaluated, she probably would have gotten two and maybe even made the final.

You do realise there's a thing called Champs Camp the USFS does where the skaters show their programs?

 

[SarahSynchro]

Getting my pot and stove ready for cooking carrot soup...

You have Zhou as your sous chef, I take it?

You savage beast, you.

 

[CellarDweller]

I'm just starting to watch the ladies now, and normally comment once at the end when I'm not watching live with everyone else.

I have very mixed feelings about seeing Gracie Gold. My opinion is that she is out of competitive shape. To clarify, I'm not talking about her weight. I'm talking about a lack of stamina, a fire that seems to be missing. I guess you could say "spirit". To be honest, I'm not surprised, given all that she's been through.

I give her major respect for being here at all. After going through all that she has, it takes MAJOR COURAGE to stand in front of an international audience, (and viewers on TV and the internet) and take the shot that has been given to her.

You can tell by her reaction in the KnC area this was not what she expected/wanted.

It is my hope that after the long program (no matter how it turns out) Gracie can hold her head high, and look back at positive aspects from the event, and move forward in whatever direction she chooses.

Chin up, Gracie! You are a brave woman!

 

[CellarDweller]

The rink looks beautiful with the logos and overall design :thumbsup:

and no big ugly feet on the boards!!! LOL

 

[bennorii]

Lol.. maybe USFS shouldn't have released Paganini...

 

[frida80]

I do hope that in the future, the USFSA considers copying Russia's "test skates" for juniors and seniors. It forces skaters to obtain a a level of readiness to compete, (by a certain date) and we could avoid a repeat of sending someone that is so far from ready to compete at this level. The surprises like Megan would get two assignments, and those who do not meet min. requirements (not just Gracie, there is another US skater who has been pretty disappointing this year) would get only one assignment, if that. Remember that last year Bradie got hosed with only one assignment. If there had been a test skate, and her skating evaluated, she probably would have gotten two and maybe even made the final.

1. USFSA is not In control over who gets placed on the GP aside from just three spots. Gracie got her assignment based on ISU rules.

2. Meghan could not get more than just me spot because her SB last year was too low to earn a spot. She got the TBA spot.

3. I like the idea of test skates but it would not have changed Gracie or Meghan's slots.

 

[Mathman]

If you wanted to make a positive comparison, though, you could try looking at the fact that Alaine recovered nicely in the FS at SA, or that at Skate Canada she improved her SP score almost 15 points.

They already went down to what, the 17th place lady at last year's Nationals with Megan Wessenberg. There's not too much further down to go.

Strangely, to me both of these skaters, Alaine Chartrand and Megan Wessenberg, made the most of their Grand Prix opportunities. They turned in creditworthy and entertaining performances. :yes: