2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Mishaminion]

Yeah but because of this narrative of "it's getting all about jumps" you'll see proposals in favour of weighting more artistry at least in the free.

If that is the case (as of now we don't really know what the final decision would be) it doesn't matte how many quads Trusova is going to land, she may loses on one of the two programs that is more about the artistry and less about jumps.

Eteri is only working the system, she'll have skaters that suits more the new rules regardless, I think there was maybe a missed opportunity from RusFed to send the feedback that they agree complete package wins over a jumping machine.

What is this #$%£ about Eteri just working the system or that RusFed have the opinion you think they should/do? I doubt RusFed would want to try to prevent the technical prowess of many of their skaters from being rewarded.

Eteri is training talented girls to push the sport forward, to dismiss what she and her skaters do as simply "working the system" is disrespectful IMO.

 

[Giltedge]

You don’t offend me at all. You’re obviously a very young skating fan that is emotionally invested in one skater and hates another. I actually feel sorry for people that hate the skaters they don’t even know.

That seems to be an arrogant attitude towards a fellow-poster here you know absolutely nothing about.

 

[el henry]

Here is what I truly truly do not understand:

Zhenya is every bit as Russian as she was three years ago. She represents her country proudly and any country would be proud to have her. But they don’t. She is Russian. And I was glad to see how much the crowd at Rostelecom loved her.

Training in Canada is no more “disrespect” to Russia than my spousal unit obtaining one of his degrees from Oxford was disrespect to America. In both cases, it is a young person making the best decision they can for their future. And if you love the young person, you support their decision.

I also don’t understand following a coach. I follow skaters. If Jason trains with Kori, I love Kori and his teammates there. If Jason trains with Brian, I love Brian and his teammates there. I imagine Zhenya’s longtime fans do the same thing.

Following a skating coach for the sake of following a coach makes no me. I’m not saying that to criticize, I’m saying I literally don’t understand it. Like alien writing from Mars. My skating fandom doesn’t work that way. So saying I don’t like certain aspects of a skater’s skating means zippity doo dah about their coach. I may criticize aspects of Vincent Zhou’s skating, it doesn’t mean I hate Tom Z. or Tammy Gambill or anyone at Broadmoor

And that may be where misunderstandings lie

 

[Nord Stream 2]

Yeah but because of this narrative of "it's getting all about jumps" you'll see proposals in favour of weighting more artistry at least in the free.

If that is the case (as of now we don't really know what the final decision would be) it doesn't matte how many quads Trusova is going to land, she may loses on one of the two programs that is more about the artistry and less about jumps.

Eteri is only working the system, she'll have skaters that suits more the new rules regardless, I think there was maybe a missed opportunity from RusFed to send the feedback that they agree complete package wins over a jumping machine.

In this case, you will see this artistry at Camila, Dasha, Anna, Alena. Such artistry, which will be needed for ISU at that moment in time.

In Sonya in a year or two you will see such a set of artistry and jumping that the ISU will wash its hands.

By the way, for me, Sasha’s energy weighs a lot more than snot and tears .... I'm afraid to name anyone.

 

[Mishaminion]

Here is what I truly truly do not understand:

Zhenya is every bit as Russian as she was three years ago. She represents her country proudly and any country would be proud to have her. But they don’t. She is Russian. And I was glad to see how much the crowd at Rostelecom loved her.

Training in Canada is no more “disrespect” to Russia than my spousal unit obtaining one of his degrees from Oxford was disrespect to America. In both cases, it is a young person making the best decision they can for their future. And if you love the young person, you support their decision.

I also don’t understand following a coach. I follow skaters. If Jason trains with Kori, I love Kori and his teammates there. If Jason trains with Brian, I love Brian and his teammates there. I imagine Zhenya’s longtime fans do the same thing.

Following a skating coach for the sake of following a coach makes no me. I’m not saying that to criticize, I’m saying I literally don’t understand it. Like alien writing from Mars. My skating fandom doesn’t work that way. So saying I don’t like certain aspects of a skater’s skating means zippity doo dah about their coach. I may criticize aspects of Vincent Zhou’s skating, it doesn’t mean I hate Tom Z. or Tammy Gambill or anyone at Broadmoor

And that may be where misunderstandings lie

Well said!

I acknowledge when coaches do a good job with their skaters but that's just about it.

I don't care who coaches Zhenya or where as long as she is happy and reaching her own personal goals.

Same applies to any other skater

 

[Giltedge]

But the main problem with artristry is, that it's highly subjective. Someone can love Alyona more as a artist, someone Anna, Alexandra, Alina or Zhenya and you can't say to anyone that one is objectively better than other, because what you find as a artistict perfection can be boring or tacky or ugly to other. I know people who don't care about jumping and they like Sasha the best even as a performer, because something in her skating is speaking to them.
So I think there shouldn't be more weight on artistry because no one will ever be happy with it either way, because everyone see art differently. If people like someone a lot they will be dissapointed, if their fave is not given the best pcs scores, because for them they are the best and how come the judges don't see it etc. And it will be still the same old, maybe even worse with more cries, that skater one didn't deserve their points, that skater number two was clearly better and the judging is biased and corrupt.

This is so true. I absolutely adore Alexandra Trusova's highly developed musicality, unique artistry, exciting interpretation and utter commitment to each and every performance. It was good to see her getting slightly better acknowledgment of her artistry in the scoring this w/e. For me, her jumping skills are just the sugarplum on top of the cake. For some, her having superb jump technique, stamina and strength seems to produce scales that blind them to all those superb components aspect to her skating.

 

[Mishaminion]

Shasha is unique and has a very different style

Some people do not like that.

She's not a pretty girly princess who skates like a ballerina

Some people don't like that either

They are welcome to their opinion

But I feel many try to push their standards of what is artistic as something every skater should have.

Figure skating would be boring if that was the case

 

[LenaRadiFan]

But the main problem with artristry is, that it's highly subjective. Someone can love Alyona more as a artist, someone Anna, Alexandra, Alina or Zhenya and you can't say to anyone that one is objectively better than other, because what you find as a artistict perfection can be boring or tacky or ugly to other. I know people who don't care about jumping and they like Sasha the best even as a performer, because something in her skating is speaking to them.
So I think there shouldn't be more weight on artistry because no one will ever be happy with it either way, because everyone see art differently. If people like someone a lot they will be dissapointed, if their fave is not given the best pcs scores, because for them they are the best and how come the judges don't see it etc. And it will be still the same old, maybe even worse with more cries, that skater one didn't deserve their points, that skater number two was clearly better and the judging is biased and corrupt.

I think one can definitely see the pcs/artistry part objectively. You can objectively determine if someone is musical and understands the music or not, and you can objecgively see if someone really does more than just the choreography that they were given if you know what I mean. One of the best examples for me is Satoko(I'm sorry for not mentioning a russian lady) I find her one of the most boring skaters to watch, yet I can still objectively say that artistically she is very good.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Shasha is unique and has a very different style

Some people do not like that.

She's not a pretty girly princess who skates like a ballerina

Some people don't like that either

They are welcome to their opinion

But I feel many try to push their standards of what is artistic as something every skater should have.

Figure skating would be boring if that was the case

I feel like when most people criticize Sashas artistry, it's not really "She doesn't skate to pretty ballet music so it can't be artistic" and more a "You can see that setting up the quads needs a lot of focus and causes her to not pay a lot of attention to the other part of the program." Of course I don't speak for everyone, but this is usually my thought process if I say and think Sashas pcs shouldn't be that high, or she should develop her artistry.

We must remember she is young, and a phenom like Aliona for example is one in a million so we can't compare, heck I wouldn't even compare Aliona to Anya in terms of artistry. Of course how everyone feels and perceives music is different and different people will prefer different programs and skaters.

Do I think Sasha shouldn't get those highish pcs in the free? Yes, because I think she skates through the music because her focus os on the jumps.

Do I think her exhibition and ahort programs(like this seasons or last seasons) are artistic and nice to watch? Also yes, because I think it just works for her better. Might be the music, might be the quads, who knows honestly.

I wanna say with that,,,it's fine to say one doesn't think Sasha is artistic and it's fine if someone thinks shes really artistic. I think you can measure it objectively to some point and for me, she hasn't reached her pcs scores just yet thus she shouldn't receive them yet as high. BUT she is young and will definitely improve so I am excited to see that.

 

[Mishaminion]

The judges have mostly responded better to Satoko's programs this season, her SP in particular is different to her usual style and her FS is very well done. I suspect one of the reasons she doesn't always get super high PCS is she often plays it very safe, all very "traditionally artistic" and japanese princessy. And she might just bore some of the judges too, their opinions on artistry are as subjective as our own

I do admire her artistry, I don't necessarily want everyone to perform like her because many think she's the standard that should be met.

 

[nussnacker]

Here is what I truly truly do not understand:

Zhenya is every bit as Russian as she was three years ago. She represents her country proudly and any country would be proud to have her. But they don’t. She is Russian. And I was glad to see how much the crowd at Rostelecom loved her.

Training in Canada is no more “disrespect” to Russia than my spousal unit obtaining one of his degrees from Oxford was disrespect to America. In both cases, it is a young person making the best decision they can for their future. And if you love the young person, you support their decision.

I also don’t understand following a coach. I follow skaters. If Jason trains with Kori, I love Kori and his teammates there. If Jason trains with Brian, I love Brian and his teammates there. I imagine Zhenya’s longtime fans do the same thing.

Following a skating coach for the sake of following a coach makes no me. I’m not saying that to criticize, I’m saying I literally don’t understand it. Like alien writing from Mars. My skating fandom doesn’t work that way. So saying I don’t like certain aspects of a skater’s skating means zippity doo dah about their coach. I may criticize aspects of Vincent Zhou’s skating, it doesn’t mean I hate Tom Z. or Tammy Gambill or anyone at Broadmoor

And that may be where misunderstandings lie

I’m not sure whether anyone here said anything like that, that “she’s not russian”, or that “training in Canada is “disrespectful”.
If you could provide username of anyone who said that training in Canada is disrespectful or that she’s not russian, I’d be thankful.

I don’t know whether people “follow” a coach for the sake of following a coach, but sometimes people happen to like certain types of programs and performances, a certain style, which might be because those skaters belong to the same team.
Some might like Virtue-Moir and P-C with M-F because the like the work, innovativeness and style of M-F which finds itself in the work she does with her students.

Sometimes I don’t like skaters with one coach, because the programs they do or the skating they show just isn’t to my liking, and sometimes they move to another coach and experience and major change in their style and skating and draw you more in.

Case in point, some people might have disliked Evgenia’s skating during her times with Eteri, and really started enjoying her skating when she moved to Brian, because her new style speaks to them more. It might be possible that they disliked her as a skater before and really started liking her after her change. Therefore, they might show more appreciation towards the pairing of Evgenia-Orser, than Evgenia-Eteri.

It’s not about “the coach”, it’s about the joint work of the coach and the skaters, which sometimes makes people like them (skaters and coaches) as a team.

 

[Mishaminion]

I feel like when most people criticize Sashas artistry, it's not really "She doesn't skate to pretty ballet music so it can't be artistic" and more a "You can see that setting up the quads needs a lot of focus and causes her to not pay a lot of attention to the other part of the program." Of course I don't speak for everyone, but this is usually my thought process if I say and think Sashas pcs shouldn't be that high, or she should develop her artistry.

We must remember she is young, and a phenom like Aliona for example is one in a million so we can't compare, heck I wouldn't even compare Aliona to Anya in terms of artistry. Of course how everyone feels and perceives music is different and different people will prefer different programs and skaters.

Do I think Sasha shouldn't get those highish pcs in the free? Yes, because I think she skates through the music because her focus os on the jumps.

Do I think her exhibition and ahort programs(like this seasons or last seasons) are artistic and nice to watch? Also yes, because I think it just works for her better. Might be the music, might be the quads, who knows honestly.

I wanna say with that,,,it's fine to say one doesn't think Sasha is artistic and it's fine if someone thinks shes really artistic. I think you can measure it objectively to some point and for me, she hasn't reached her pcs scores just yet thus she shouldn't receive them yet as high. BUT she is young and will definitely improve so I am excited to see that.

It is hard even for the men to balance quads with performance. Not many of those have that quite mastered yet either.

It is not easy to do both, which is why we usually have artistic vs technical skaters with very few reaching a high in both.

There's Sasha who does focus more on her big jumps, but has reasonable skills in performance and is trying to improve

There's Satoko Miyahara who is esquisite in most areas but has very poor jumps.

Then we have the smaller list of skaters who manage very good quality in both. Such as Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Alyona Kostornaia, Carolina Kostner when clean at least

 

[jenm]

I feel like when most people criticize Sashas artistry, it's not really "She doesn't skate to pretty ballet music so it can't be artistic" and more a "You can see that setting up the quads needs a lot of focus and causes her to not pay a lot of attention to the other part of the program." Of course I don't speak for everyone, but this is usually my thought process if I say and think Sashas pcs shouldn't be that high, or she should develop her artistry.

We must remember she is young, and a phenom like Aliona for example is one in a million so we can't compare, heck I wouldn't even compare Aliona to Anya in terms of artistry. Of course how everyone feels and perceives music is different and different people will prefer different programs and skaters.

Do I think Sasha shouldn't get those highish pcs in the free? Yes, because I think she skates through the music because her focus os on the jumps.

Do I think her exhibition and ahort programs(like this seasons or last seasons) are artistic and nice to watch? Also yes, because I think it just works for her better. Might be the music, might be the quads, who knows honestly.

I wanna say with that,,,it's fine to say one doesn't think Sasha is artistic and it's fine if someone thinks shes really artistic. I think you can measure it objectively to some point and for me, she hasn't reached her pcs scores just yet thus she shouldn't receive them yet as high. BUT she is young and will definitely improve so I am excited to see that.

This. :thumbsup:

 

[Georgya]

Here is what I truly truly do not understand:

Zhenya is every bit as Russian as she was three years ago.She represents her country proudly and any country would be proud to have her. But they don’t. She is Russian. And I was glad to see how much the crowd at Rostelecom loved her.

Training in Canada is no more “disrespect” to Russia than my spousal unit obtaining one of his degrees from Oxford was disrespect to America. In both cases, it is a young person making the best decision they can for their future. And if you love the young person, you support their decision.

I also don’t understand following a coach. I follow skaters. If Jason trains with Kori, I love Kori and his teammates there. If Jason trains with Brian, I love Brian and his teammates there. I imagine Zhenya’s longtime fans do the same thing.

Following a skating coach for the sake of following a coach makes no me. I’m not saying that to criticize, I’m saying I literally don’t understand it. Like alien writing from Mars. My skating fandom doesn’t work that way. So saying I don’t like certain aspects of a skater’s skating means zippity doo dah about their coach. I may criticize aspects of Vincent Zhou’s skating, it doesn’t mean I hate Tom Z. or Tammy Gambill or anyone at Broadmoor

And that may be where misunderstandings lie

What happens to Medvedeva is similar to Zagitova or Trusova or Konstantinova. If Russia had only one good skater in ladies, probably she would get the entire attention and love in the country, but since Russia has not only one, not two but "an army" of them, the russian fans are divised, the battle among coaches is greater and the egos are bigger. It's simple has that. Moving to Canada is just an excuse for those who didn't actually like Medvedeva to begin with. And this happens also for the non russian fans.

 

[Jontor]

*UPDATED* Russian Ladies in the SB list after GP Rostelecom and Warsaw Cup - 21 (of 30) events

1 (1) - Alexandra Trusova, RUS 241.02 - GP Skate Canada
2 (2) - Alena Kostornaia, RUS 236.00 - GP Internationaux de France
3 (3) - Rika Kihira, JPN 230.33 - GP Skate Canada
4 (4) - Anna Shcherbakova, RUS 227.76 - GP Skate America
5 (7) - Evgenia Medvedeva, RUS 225.76 - GP Rostelecom Cup
6 (5) - Kamila Valieva (J), RUS 221.95 - JGP Chelyabinsk
7 (6) - Young You, KOR 217.49 - GP Skate Canada
8 (8) - Bradie Tennell, USA 216.14 - GP Skate America
9 (9) - Alina Zagitova, RUS 216.06 - GP Internationaux de France
10 (10) - Ksenia Sinitsyna, RUS 215.58 - JGP Egna/Neumarkt
11 (11) - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, RUS 214.38 - CS Lombardia Trophy
12 (12) - Mariah Bell, USA 212.89 - GP Internationaux de France
13 (13) - Satoko Miyahara, JPN 211.18 - GP Cup of China
14 (14) - Alysa Liu (J), USA 208.10 - JGP Lake Placid
15 (15) - Haein Lee, KOR 203.40 - JGP Croatia Cup
16 (16) - Kaori Sakamoto, JPN 202.47 - GP Skate America
17 (44) - Ekaterina Kurakova, POL 201.47 - CS Warsaw Cup
18 (17) - Viktoria Vasilieva, RUS 198.79 - JGP Chelyabinsk
19 (18) - Eunsoo Lim, KOR 197.63 - CS Asian Open Trophy
20 (19) - Daria Usacheva (J), RUS 197.19 - JGP Croatia Cup
21 (20) - Anastasia Tarakanova, RUS 194.74 - JGP Baltic Cup
22 (21) - Rino Matsuike, JPN 193.03 - JGP Riga Cup
23 (22) - Yuhana Yokoi, JPN 191.90 - CS Finlandia Trophy
24 (23) - Seoyeong Wi, KOR 191.07 - JGP Courchevel
-----------------------------------------------------------
25 (24) - Maiia Khromykh (J), RUS 190.73 - JGP Riga Cup
27 (25) - Sofia Samodurova, RUS 187.16 - CS Ice Star Minsk
31 (new) - Elizaveta Nugumanova, RUS 186.02 - CS Warsaw Cup
33 (30) - Anna Frolova (J), RUS 181.96 - JGP Croatia Cup
41 (43) - Serafima Sakhanovich, RUS 178.27 - CS Warsaw Cup
67 (60) - Stanislava Konstantinova, RUS 162.25 - CS Nepela Memorial
81 (76) - Maria Sotskova 155.25 - CS Nepela Memorial


Nugumanova new on the SB list this week, Medvedeva climbs a few steps.
Next week GP NHK Trophy with Kostornaia, Zagitova and Samodurova.

Top 24 in the SB list, except juniors (J), are guaranteed at least one spot at the senior GP next year
Last year, to be in the Top 24 in the Seasons Best List you had to score 196.34.

 

[flanker]

CS Warsaw Cup, Liza Nugumanova 3rd (186.02), Serafima Sakhanovich 4th (178.27). And it partially belongs here, Ekaterina Kurakova did her personal best, 201.47. She won.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

*UPDATED* Russian Ladies in the SB list after GP Rostelecom and Warsaw Cup - 21 (of 30) events

1 (1) - Alexandra Trusova, RUS 241.02 - GP Skate Canada
2 (2) - Alena Kostornaia, RUS 236.00 - GP Internationaux de France
3 (3) - Rika Kihira, JPN 230.33 - GP Skate Canada
4 (4) - Anna Shcherbakova, RUS 227.76 - GP Skate America
5 (7) - Evgenia Medvedeva, RUS 217.43 - GP Rostelecom Cup
6 (5) - Kamila Valieva (J), RUS 221.95 - JGP Chelyabinsk
7 (6) - Young You, KOR 217.49 - GP Skate Canada
8 (8) - Bradie Tennell, USA 216.14 - GP Skate America
9 (9) - Alina Zagitova, RUS 216.06 - GP Internationaux de France
10 (10) - Ksenia Sinitsyna, RUS 215.58 - JGP Egna/Neumarkt
11 (11) - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, RUS 214.38 - CS Lombardia Trophy
12 (12) - Mariah Bell, USA 212.89 - GP Internationaux de France
13 (13) - Satoko Miyahara, JPN 211.18 - GP Cup of China
14 (14) - Alysa Liu (J), USA 208.10 - JGP Lake Placid
15 (15) - Haein Lee, KOR 203.40 - JGP Croatia Cup
16 (16) - Kaori Sakamoto, JPN 202.47 - GP Skate America
17 (44) - Ekaterina Kurakova, POL 201.47 - CS Warsaw Cup
18 (17) - Viktoria Vasilieva, RUS 198.79 - JGP Chelyabinsk
19 (18) - Eunsoo Lim, KOR 197.63 - CS Asian Open Trophy
20 (19) - Daria Usacheva (J), RUS 197.19 - JGP Croatia Cup
21 (20) - Anastasia Tarakanova, RUS 194.74 - JGP Baltic Cup
22 (21) - Rino Matsuike, JPN 193.03 - JGP Riga Cup
23 (22) - Yuhana Yokoi, JPN 191.90 - CS Finlandia Trophy
24 (23) - Seoyeong Wi, KOR 191.07 - JGP Courchevel
-----------------------------------------------------------
25 (24) - Maiia Khromykh (J), RUS 190.73 - JGP Riga Cup
27 (25) - Sofia Samodurova, RUS 187.16 - CS Ice Star Minsk
31 (new) - Elizaveta Nugumanova, RUS 186.02 - CS Warsaw Cup
33 (30) - Anna Frolova (J), RUS 181.96 - JGP Croatia Cup
41 (43) - Serafima Sakhanovich, RUS 178.27 - CS Warsaw Cup
67 (60) - Stanislava Konstantinova, RUS 162.25 - CS Nepela Memorial
81 (76) - Maria Sotskova 155.25 - CS Nepela Memorial


Nugumanova new on the SB list this week, Medvedeva climbs a few steps.
Next week GP NHK Trophy with Kostornaia, Zagitova and Samodurova.

Top 24 in the SB list, except juniors (J), are guaranteed at least one spot at the senior GP next year
Last year, to be in the Top 24 in the Seasons Best List you had to score 196.34.

There is a mistake in your list. It should be 225 for Zhenya not 217

 

[Mishaminion]

Nice to see Kurokova winning a challenger. It does show that there are more opportunities available by switching to represent a different country.
Her score also puts her (currently) in the top 24 SB list

Perhaps some of our more forgotten ladies will seriously consider if it is worth doing.

 

[Giltedge]

*UPDATED* Russian Ladies in the SB list after GP Rostelecom and Warsaw Cup - 21 (of 30) events

Thank you for the lists. Just wondered, shouldn't Ksenia Ts be there somewhere around 190?

 

[Jontor]

There is a mistake in your list. It should be 225 for Zhenya not 217

Noted. My bad. Her placing is correct though...