2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[moonvine]

i guess we'll keep acting that Alysa is a disgusting skater, when she has nice lines, pretty spirals (if they were only longer :c), really good spins, has improved her SS tremendously (i mean compare them to last year, yikes. what a queen.) you can actually see her joy while she skates (while doing such a hard routines), she has some nice performance qualities, she emotes more than most junior skaters (and quite many senior skaters as well), she uses her arms beautifully, her IR is as good as I expect 14 yo girl to have. her PCS were overscored, that's a fact, but she's not an awful skater, who only have jumps. her jumps have been improved as well, especially her 3A, they look so much better. all her triples look easier now, her 4lz is mess but that's also on isu, for allowing all these girls (AND boys) to cheat their quads. i'm glad she won tbh she has a lot of potential, which sadly people don't give her credit for. mariah's a really nice skater, don't get me wrong, but i think her pcs were over the top as well, i wish she didn't wear these ugly boots because they completely destroy her lines, at least for me, (her spirals were still nice ofc). her jumps are usually shaky and sort of 'stiff', so are her landings. her ss are really nice but i don't like her crossovers, they're so agressive, she has great spins, spirals, her IR is amazing, so is her PE even though when it's time for jumps she completely shuts down, which i hope she will continue to work on, as well her jumps overall. i hope she will do well at 4cc and worlds. and alysa at jr worlds

I would never, ever say any skater is “disgusting.” Her programs are not my favorites and I find them boring. They are not to my taste. None of these ladies is “disgusting.”

 

[moonvine]

That's Benny the ice skating dog... he assists with puck drops at major league hockey games, does skate with me events for charity etc.. he was a shelter dog adopted just before they were going to euthanize him... the lady who owns him is a skater, noticed his jntelligence and performing abilities, got him custom-made skates and out onto the ice, rest is history. Benny is lovely. .. I follow him on instagram at
https://www.instagram.com/p/B680AegpaHH/?igshid=1f4gqsdib65x8

He was adorable. He was In the opening ceremony and I think they said he was at Skate America.

 

[moonvine]

I think Alyssa is amazing and clearly the future of US Women's figure Skating. I firmly believe, however, that no skater should be allowed to compete in Seniors until they are age eligible for international competition. Have always believed that. She has all the technical skill and now needs to develop the performance skills. I really look forward to seeing her progress and hope she doesn't have a growth spurt like Mirai did to throw her off track.

Mariah was magical last night. Her jumps were solid, her spins beautiful, and she was clearly feeling her music. She just looks so much more confident out there than ever before. Bradie doesn't inspire me. I feel like she skates within herself and is programmed for her performance. I just don't get any emotion. Amber Glenn surprised me. Never cared much for her OR Courtney Hicks but Amber really brought it this year. I hope she continues skating.

Were you here? Because in my opinion Bradie comes off totally different on TV vs in the arena. I definitely got emotion off her, as I believe most in the audience did.

 

[moonvine]

I think that is what is behind the ISU's talk of turning the SP into an "artistic program" of equal weight to the "technical program" (LP).

If that system had been in place here Mariah would be the "artistic champion" and Alyssa the "technical champion," and then it would come down to placements for who was the "overall champion" (with Brady still in the mix if she got 2nd in both).

In my opinion something needs to be done. Casual viewers do not understand why Mariah did not finish first. I know this because I was in a suite full of them last night. Kind of like me and ice dance. I can’t comprehend the judging and it is a major turn off.

 

[noskates]

Nope - I was home on my couch. Having been to quite a few comps I acknowledge that "being there" is a lot different than not being there. I definitely saw emotion at the end of the program. I guess just not my cuppa.....I've always found Bradie to be a little icy or something. But I will say she rotates soooooo fast. Always impressive when she jumps.

And I agree - using the word "disgusting" when referring to any of the ladies is ......well.....disgusting IMO. I do think this was one of the better women's competitions than we've had in a long time. We did not see the usual splat fests and even the new skaters to seniors did a very good job.

 

[Joekaz]

Tbh if Mariah was skating at the level she is now back at the 2018 worlds she definitely could have medaled there. Nothing against Wakaba, she was awesome and deserved her medal. But both her and Satoko only scored 210 to get their medals, Mariah got 212 at gp France this year. Tbh I think it’s not a problem of being sooo far behind in talent for American ladies but more so they can never hold it together for two clean programs when it counts. Mariah and Bradie have consistently scored higher then the Japanese ladies(besides Rika) this season. They have leveled up in a way the Japanese ladies simply haven’t this year. It all will come down to who’s the cleanest at worlds.

The scoring is higher this year from the GOE scale, and that isn't comparable to World Championships in any case. If you read my original post I said the Japanese didn't have a good season this year. My point was that if everyone skates to their form of this year then the Americans have an excellent chance. But if the Japanese regain their form and skate to their ability the Americans have no chance.

 

[evasorange]

The scoring is higher this year from the GOE scale, and that isn't comparable to World Championships in any case. If you read my original post I said the Japanese didn't have a good season this year. My point was that if everyone skates to their form of this year then the Americans have an excellent chance. But if the Japanese regain their form and skate to their ability the Americans have no chance.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree! Rika is the only one who is I can agree is better.

 

[lpt]

Think again. They both are World silver medalists. What comparable accomplishment does any active American skater have?

They were "World silver medalists" years ago. This year's GP shows who is who now.

 

[hippomoomin]

It looks like now Alysa is taller than 4'7" or 147cm because she is not much shorter than Karen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nmIDTRSd-M
Being taller will help her extension and visual impact on ice.

 

[Joekaz]

They were "World silver medalists" years ago. This year's GP shows who is who now.

My point was that they have proven world podium talent. The Amerivcans don't. That is fact not opinion. It is also fact that the Americans have skated better overall this year. My point was that if the Japanese overcome their troubles from earlier this year,they have the ability to finish ahead of the Americans. That shouldn't be controversial.

 

[NAOTMAA]

If the Americans and Japanese all skate clean (or close to it) then the Japanese come out on top no questions asked. They are better.

But this season the Japanese (except Rika) are struggling while the Americans are more consistent. So at this moment the Americans do have a good chance of beating two of them at world's and placing high enough for three spots next year. But we just have to wait and see, anything can happen.

 

[Amei]

The thing is, Alysa's 4Lz replaces a double jump. Even if UR, it's worth a good 6 points more than a 2T. Her two 3As were worth 10+ more points than two 2As. That's an easy +16 in tech score.

I loved Mariah's skate and she won the second score, but the first score is where she is always lacking - she really needs to work on increasing her Technical score to be more competitive at Nationals to compete for a gold and at events like Worlds.

 

[lusterfan]

In my opinion something needs to be done. Casual viewers do not understand why Mariah did not finish first. I know this because I was in a suite full of them last night. Kind of like me and ice dance. I can’t comprehend the judging and it is a major turn off.

I agree that the technicalities of the sport make it difficult for casual viewers to follow and understand. However, figure skating isn't a cut and dry sport like racing, where there's an objective measure of time. Scoring will always be difficult to understand for casual fans because they're not going to be invested enough to care or look into it. That doesn't mean we should cater to them and assign champions based on audience popularity or viewer emotions. I agree that ISU should change something about the scoring to make it more objective and understandable, but if we wanted to go off popularity of purely performance, that undermines the athleticism and nuances of the sport that should be accurately rewarded (and it's hard for casual viewers to understand and appreciate all this).

Perhaps arenas and broadcasters can do a better job of displaying and explaining point values. We already see a technical score box when viewing online, but it's not understandable for casual viewers. With a more standardized point scale or simplified visuals, I think it can be done. Showing the +5/-5 for each element on screen rather than the arbitrary GOE amounts could help, as +5/-5 is easy to understand. It might get tricky because the audience won't know why there was a +5 or -5, but casual viewers really won't be so tuned into the score build up and just want to enjoy the performance for what it is. Still, I think better graphics and a tiny bit of extra work will go a long way with drawing casual fans. However, I do not agree that just because Mariah's performance was more mature, emotional, and beautiful that she should've won in this scoring environment.

She came with a deficit of 21 points in BV alone, and she did not execute all her elements (particularly the jumps) to perfection either, so where are you all going to justify that Mariah earned 21 extra points than Alysa? PCS is so subjective and hard to define. I agree that Mariah was leaps and bounds better than Alysa in PCS, but the scale of PCS isn't wide enough to reward that much. Alysa's technical content is leaps and bounds harder than Mariah's so you have to give credit to her for that and reward it. Mariah can barely pull out triple-triples, and has much easier content compared to the quads and triple axels from Alysa. For a sport, give credit to the athleticism. If you argue that Alysa should've been in the 50's (would've needed around 57 to lose to Mariah), then Mariah certainly would not be getting her 75's. Internationally, both received inflated scores so you can't only target Alysa. Alysa is far beyond a basic jump jump jump skater, so give her some credit too for her accomplishments. Mariah's performance was outright beautiful, but that's not all it takes to win, sadly. I would've personally given the gold to Mariah, but I won't pretend Alysa was given the title - she earned it fairly and the numbers back it up.

 

[natsulian]

Congratulations to Pooja Kalyan for being one of the recipients of the Scholastic Honors Team. Kalyan is now coached by Tom Z and if you click on the next slide, you can see a clip of her beautiful triple-Lutz.

Link: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7wkaLfJwMn/?igshid=xosb2lluo5ys

 

[moonvine]

I don’t think championships should be based on popularity, no. But gymnastics is going the opposite direction of figure skating - beautiful, clean gymnastics being worth more than sloppy more difficult gymnastics. And that’s what I prefer, and it seems quite popular. I know others prefer more difficult jumps. One thing is for sure, everyone can’t have what they want.

 

[NAOTMAA]

In my opinion something needs to be done. Casual viewers do not understand why Mariah did not finish first. I know this because I was in a suite full of them last night. Kind of like me and ice dance. I can’t comprehend the judging and it is a major turn off.

Surely Americans (I am one) can understand why quads and multiple 3A's will win a championship. They know it does when it comes to the men and they need to start learning it will apply to the ladies these days too. And Johnny and Tara kept saying it over and over all night long. Alysa had one under rotation on the quad but she didn't fall and everything else (including 2 3As) was clean. By the rules of skating (again explained over and over) she won fair and square. I do think she was grossly over marked on the PCS but that still wouldn't have been enough for her to lose the title.

Ladies skating has changed. I don't know how many times Johnny, Tara or Terry have to explain and empathize it then they already have. If people still don't get it then they are willingly being ignorant and ignoring what's being told in the simplest of terms.

 

[truthbooth]

If the Americans and Japanese all skate clean (or close to it) then the Japanese come out on top no questions asked. They are better.

But this season the Japanese (except Rika) are struggling while the Americans are more consistent. So at this moment the Americans do have a good chance of beating two of them at world's and placing high enough for three spots next year. But we just have to wait and see, anything can happen.

I would say this is definitely true for Kihira, but only possibly true for Miyahara due to low jump BV and the Americans closing the gap on PCS. I think in particular we might see Bell get a PCS bump at Worlds following Nationals. A clean Higuchi would likely not beat a clean Tennell/Bell in the current environment.

 

[KatGrace1925]

She won by 10 points. She could have gotten 59 PCS (average 7.4) and still would have won. Mariah received Nationals inflation too in her long program—75 (average about 9.4). I think Alysa’s PCS of 68 (average 8.5) was correct, relative to Mariah’s.

I would put Alysa down to 6’s in skating skills and other marks. I would have Mariah in the 9’s. That’s just how I see it. A juniorish program doesn’t deserve to get senior level marks. Alysa is such a bore and I see no improvements just more snoozy programs without much content to them aside from jumps. Mariah is a much more beautiful and inspiring skater, but idk I just knew this would happen. I knew Mariah had no chance at winning cause the USFS thinks Alysa can beat Eteri’s girls but I don’t think Alysa has a chance unless she completely changes as a skater in two years.

 

[Colonel Green]

In my opinion something needs to be done. Casual viewers do not understand why Mariah did not finish first. I know this because I was in a suite full of them last night.

Did these viewers not see Liu’s gigantic technical score building up on the TES reader?

 

[KatGrace1925]

If the Americans and Japanese all skate clean (or close to it) then the Japanese come out on top no questions asked. They are better.

But this season the Japanese (except Rika) are struggling while the Americans are more consistent. So at this moment the Americans do have a good chance of beating two of them at world's and placing high enough for three spots next year. But we just have to wait and see, anything can happen.

I would personally rank them like this on skill level this season and think this is where they might shake out if they all skated clean.

Rika
Kaori
Mariah
Wakaba
Bradie

Wakaba is powerful but personally I don’t like watching her as much as as I like watching Mariah. This is just my opinion.