- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Dorothy, we don't need none of your delayed rotational Axel's!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGDoKiJIm0&t=0m53s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGDoKiJIm0&t=0m53s
So true, in all walks of life. Many moons ago, delayed rotation was a positive. Dick Button used to point it out admiringly. I wish it still could be, because I think delayed rotations are beautiful. But in today's scoring system, it costs too many points if it causes underrotation. However, a little ornery part of me wonders if an ornery little part of Karen likes to do her jumps that way. I'm not a mind-reader, so I don't know, but the thought intrigues.
It isn’t rotational speed in Karen Chen’s situation but rather how quickly she starts her rotations from the point of take off (ie delayed rotation). In general, it is difficult to change how fast you rotate jumps, but beginning the rotation sooner can be learned, but hard to change over night. I’d honestly say, it is time to work with a jump specialist that is not part of the existing team to make this work. Sometimes it isn’t what is said but how it is said that makes something click that didn’t before
Dorothy, we don't need none of your delayed rotational Axel's!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGDoKiJIm0&t=0m53s
It isn’t rotational speed in Karen Chen’s situation but rather how quickly she starts her rotations from the point of take off (ie delayed rotation). In general, it is difficult to change how fast you rotate jumps, but beginning the rotation sooner can be learned, but hard to change over night. I’d honestly say, it is time to work with a jump specialist that is not part of the existing team to make this work. Sometimes it isn’t what is said but how it is said that makes something click that didn’t before
i just wish Karen Chen will just prerotate some of her jumps a little earlier. Like Johnny weir said, she is like a diver who makes their turn when they are already in the water. She can easily do a quad lutz and a triple axle if she prerotates like the Russians. Also why is she always doing a flip when she gets ding on it. Don’t know why she just doesn’t change it to a toe or salchow and get positive GOE. her jumps are so massive. Everything about her skating is so good but she just doesn’t have the consistency and she doesn’t prerotate. She needs to start playing the figure skating game of prerotating if she wants to win.
Dorothy, we don't need none of your delayed rotational Axel's!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyGDoKiJIm0&t=0m53s
Yes! Yes we do! I wish they'd allow it as a choreographic move.
Somewhere there is a thread celebrating delayed axels from back in the day.
Times sure have changed. Delayed jumps used to be so prized in the 1970s that Dorothy Hamill made them the opening and closing jumps of her long program.
Fast forward to 2020 and Karen Chen is criticized for having delayed jumps, because she "should" rotate her triples as fast as she can to get a quad. It's really too bad those kind of jumps aren't rewarded now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ5ZzsUX8nM
Karen's jumps are criticized because she has a persistent UR problem which she is dinged for all the time. her jumps are beautiful, big and airy, but she doesn't get around all the way. fact of the matter is if she wants a quad in order to be competitive with the top ladies, she HAS to rotate faster and get into rotation faster. Karen would be rewarded with higher GOE on her jumps if she did not UR.
Isn't that the point of delayed jumps though, they don't get quite all around, they're big and airy?
They are supposed to land backward.
With a single or double jump, it's a lot easier for a big jumper to get in the full rotation after a delay than it is with triples or quads.
Isn't that the point of delayed jumps though, they don't get quite all around, they're big and airy? Obviously in today's figure skating, it's triples or bust, but in the olden days you could do a double axel or a delayed, big, single axel
Delayed axels are gorgeous jumps!
Yeah.
A good double or triple can get more points than a bad triple or quad -- especially if the latter is so bad as to be downgraded, making the base values the same.
But a perfect single axel can never be as valuable as an adequate double axel let alone triple.
There would need to be some provision in the rules to encourage special variations of single jumps.
For now, if done toward the end of the program after all the jump slots are filled, they could be highlights that earn no TES points but contribute to the PCS. I think we have seen this occasionally with split-flips. Choreo sequence at the end of the FS would be a good place to include them.
I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison between Ashley and Mirai. Ashley was a Nationals podium contender every year between 2008 and 2018 based on relatively strong GP results. She earned at least one GP medal every season except 2008 when she had two 4th place finishes. Gracie also was a Nationals gold medal favorite, and international podium contender, for the four years of her peak abilities. Mirai was a lot more up-and-down, failing to win a GP medal several different seasons following her Nationals title.