2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[karne]

@ice coverage, I heard that Max Aaron was recently in a show? Any word on how he did and/or what he’s up to these days? Is he still working in finance?

He was in Scott Hamilton & Friends. Which unlike last year, was not live streamed. So unlike last year, there are no videos and I was so looking forward to see him skate again :sad4:

He likes to post random scenery photos with no context. So I do not know. But he looks happy, whenever he occasionally shows up in them.

 

[Sai Bon]

Interesting TV interview (w/ English subtitles) Tomoki did while in Japan for NHK. He speaks Japanese very well.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bBDsqdwXlZjuTD7-dvWfv03dZbedxQou/view

Oh sheetz, Japanese TV, what a treat! Thank you!!! And Tomoki is really funny... (my family is from Tokyo, so his Kansai dialect is hilarious).

 

[Tavi...]

@snowflake and @oly2018, I do agree that there was more interest during the Olympic year, but even so, at this time in 2016 there were 750+ posts in the US men’s thread, and in 2015 there were 850+ posts. So it looks like there has been a drop off in posting /interest that’s unrelated to the Olympics. I think part of it is that - as one of you said - a few years ago there were a lot of strong guys with interesting personalities and different strengths emerging and fighting for the Nats podium specifically, but many of those guys have now retired. Nathan is so dominant now that I guess there’s not much suspense as to who will win Nats. Jason always seems to be on the verge of a breakthrough, but then gets derailed by injury or nerves - but to date he’s managed to stay competitive. Will that continue? Vincent always seems to manage to pull it together for Nats, no matter how much he has struggled (or in this case, been absent) during the first part of the season. Will Camden or Andrew T challenge any of these guys next year? Will Yaroslav Paniot land all his quads and be a surprise medal winner?

What’s interesting to me is that the new guys coming up don’t seem to be drawing a ton of excitement or anticipation. I don’t mean they don’t have fans or admirers - they absolutely do - but for the most part, they don’t really seem to compel people to want to talk about them much. And I wonder why that is. Is it because no-one except Nathan and Vincent (both in school) are really competitive at the World level that we don’t talk about them more? That wasn’t the case in the past - people were interested in guys’ improvements and their stories.

Anyway, Golden Spin is coming up soon. It’s not a very competitive field, but the US men are interesting- Jason, Camden, and Alex are all scheduled to compete. Jason won it last year, but although he looked like he was going to have a good season after SA, he didn’t look very good (to put it mildly) at NHK. Camden looked really good in Canada and is landing quads now (more than we can say for Jason) but not so great in China. Alexei is improving his presentation but is also upping his tech a lot - and he’s struggled in competition so far. Any thoughts on what we’ll see from these three at Golden Spin?

ETA @Karne thanks for the Max update! Shame there was no video. But I promise if he skates anywhere nearby here I’ll go and report back.

 

[ice coverage]

... @ice coverage, I heard that Max Aaron was recently in a show? Any word on how he did and/or what he’s up to these days? ...

Thanks for asking about Max :luv17:, who I still miss very much.:sad4:
As mentioned by karne: This past Sunday, he made his second appearance in Scott Hamilton's annual fundraising show in Nashville.

Last year, the YT channel for Scott's foundation eventually posted videos of the entire show. Hoping for the same this year.

In Max's fan thread, I posted some observations about this year's show, based on various glimpses from Instastory and other social media.
Scott's shows are known for live music performed by major artists (such as Kenny Loggins) -- which I think must add extra excitement for the star-studded cast of skaters. Show skating is a great outlet for Max's love of entertaining the crowd, and it was so nice to see his energy and smile again. Plus all for a good cause.

As karne said, information tends to be scarce on Max's social media.
But from the accounts of others, it is apparent that he has been a guest coach at a number of skating seminars, mostly in the U.S. For example: The day after Scott's show this year, Max taught at Scott's one-day camp for skaters in the Nashville area.
Max also has performed in some other shows (of a lower profile than Scott's big show).

---

Nathan is the host of the latest installment of the USFS Food Phrase videos, and I think he had more fun than anyone (player or host) in the whole series. His laughter is the best part of today's video.

https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/1200127216392294401 (Nov 28, 2:54)​

 

[snowflake]

@snowflake and @oly2018, I do agree that there was more interest during the Olympic year, but even so, at this time in 2016 there were 750+ posts in the US men’s thread, and in 2015 there were 850+ posts. So it looks like there has been a drop off in posting /interest that’s unrelated to the Olympics. I think part of it is that - as one of you said - a few years ago there were a lot of strong guys with interesting personalities and different strengths emerging and fighting for the Nats podium specifically, but many of those guys have now retired. Nathan is so dominant now that I guess there’s not much suspense as to who will win Nats. Jason always seems to be on the verge of a breakthrough, but then gets derailed by injury or nerves - but to date he’s managed to stay competitive. Will that continue? Vincent always seems to manage to pull it together for Nats, no matter how much he has struggled (or in this case, been absent) during the first part of the season. Will Camden or Andrew T challenge any of these guys next year? Will Yaroslav Paniot land all his quads and be a surprise medal winner?

What’s interesting to me is that the new guys coming up don’t seem to be drawing a ton of excitement or anticipation. I don’t mean they don’t have fans or admirers - they absolutely do - but for the most part, they don’t really seem to compel people to want to talk about them much. And I wonder why that is. Is it because no-one except Nathan and Vincent (both in school) are really competitive at the World level that we don’t talk about them more? That wasn’t the case in the past - people were interested in guys’ improvements and their stories.

Anyway, Golden Spin is coming up soon. It’s not a very competitive field, but the US men are interesting- Jason, Camden, and Alex are all scheduled to compete. Jason won it last year, but although he looked like he was going to have a good season after SA, he didn’t look very good (to put it mildly) at NHK. Camden looked really good in Canada and is landing quads now (more than we can say for Jason) but not so great in China. Alexei is improving his presentation but is also upping his tech a lot - and he’s struggled in competition so far. Any thoughts on what we’ll see from these three at Golden Spin?

ETA @Karne thanks for the Max update! Shame there was no video. But I promise if he skates anywhere nearby here I’ll go and report back.

What quads is the new US guy Paniot doing?

 

[Tavi...]

What quads is the new US guy Paniot doing?

I’m not 100% sure - at sectionals it looks like he only attempted 4T but at US Classic I think he has attempted both 4F and 4T in same program. I don’t know about his success rate or other quads.

 

[Mrs. P]

What quads is the new US guy Paniot doing?

He attempted three 4Ts at Pacific Coast Sectionals and landed one each in the SP and FS (he popped the other one). It’s really nice! I think he might in the running for a top 6 spot IMO. His jumps are nice but he can be inconsistent with them and he doesn’t have the PCS to back him up if the tech doesn’t workout.

He was so happy to be skating! He took a lot of selfies with the other medalists and was super sweet with all the young fans. I think it must’ve been kinda lonely representing Ukraine.

The guy I really adored at Pacific Coast Sectionals is Joonsoo Kim, who won! He doesn’t have a 3A but he does the other jumps well and his overall skating quality and performance ability is really good. His FS was choreographed by Misha Ge. He’s juggling UCLA and skating but he’s clearly making it work.

 

[ice coverage]

... What’s interesting to me is that the new guys coming up don’t seem to be drawing a ton of excitement or anticipation. I don’t mean they don’t have fans or admirers - they absolutely do - but for the most part, they don’t really seem to compel people to want to talk about them much. And I wonder why that is. Is it because no-one except Nathan and Vincent (both in school) are really competitive at the World level that we don’t talk about them more? That wasn’t the case in the past - people were interested in guys’ improvements and their stories. ...

... The guy I really adored at Pacific Coast Sectionals is Joonsoo Kim, who won! He doesn’t have a 3A but he does the other jumps well and his overall skating quality and performance ability is really good. His FS was choreographed by Misha Ge. He’s juggling UCLA and skating but he’s clearly making it work.

For anyone interested in Joonsoo (yet another nice guy among U.S. men) and his skating and his story, I will add that he also competes in intercollegiate team skating.
Shortly before Joonsoo won Pacific Coast sectionals, he helped the UCLA team place second out of fourteen teams at an intercollegiate competition for the Pacific Coast section. Joonsoo won junior solo free dance for UCLA. (Also senior championship men's free skate, for which he was the only competitor.)
UCLA team photo: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4apUtcn2Eg/ (Nov 2)

(Per the belated article re Joonsoo's win at Collegiates over the summer: He is a sophomore, and he is studying neuroscience.)

[Today Joonsoo and Goku Endo won Starbucks cards from @laeliteice for having a clean program on Thanksgiving Day. As did five ladies in their training group. Photos: https://instagram.com/p/B5bPKkgHNx9/ (Nov 28)]

 

[Skater Boy]

Last year at this time, the old US Men’s thread had nearly 700 posts. Two years ago, it had more than 1100, more twice as many as in the current thread. I don’t know why there’s been such a drop off in discussing the US men, but as it’s my favorite discipline, I still get excited every time I see that there are new posts in this thread. And I get disappointed when those posts turn out be tangential at best.

To your points, @ice coverage and @Ice Dance, if this were an active thread and conversation had indeed moved on to discuss the chances of our guys at Golden Spin or GPF, or if people were assessing how guys have stacked up so far in the season, what they’re doing right or wrong, or what we might see from them at Nats, etc., I would have had no problem skipping over a few posts I didn’t find particularly interesting. If you or anyone else have thoughts on those things, I would be eager to read and discuss them.

It is kind of exciting. US has Nathan Chen out to defend his title. They have the current world bronze medallist and of course they have Jason Brown the great stylist. It is unfortunate not more interest is occurring.

 

[moonvine]

He attempted three 4Ts at Pacific Coast Sectionals and landed one each in the SP and FS (he popped the other one). It’s really nice! I think he might in the running for a top 6 spot IMO. His jumps are nice but he can be inconsistent with them and he doesn’t have the PCS to back him up if the tech doesn’t workout.

He was so happy to be skating! He took a lot of selfies with the other medalists and was super sweet with all the young fans. I think it must’ve been kinda lonely representing Ukraine.

The guy I really adored at Pacific Coast Sectionals is Joonsoo Kim, who won! He doesn’t have a 3A but he does the other jumps well and his overall skating quality and performance ability is really good. His FS was choreographed by Misha Ge. He’s juggling UCLA and skating but he’s clearly making it work.

Yes, I saw Joonsoo win Collegiates. He is a lot of fun to watch.

 

[Makemi]

@snowflake and @oly2018, I do agree that there was more interest during the Olympic year, but even so, at this time in 2016 there were 750+ posts in the US men’s thread, and in 2015 there were 850+ posts. So it looks like there has been a drop off in posting /interest that’s unrelated to the Olympics. I think part of it is that - as one of you said - a few years ago there were a lot of strong guys with interesting personalities and different strengths emerging and fighting for the Nats podium specifically, but many of those guys have now retired. Nathan is so dominant now that I guess there’s not much suspense as to who will win Nats. Jason always seems to be on the verge of a breakthrough, but then gets derailed by injury or nerves - but to date he’s managed to stay competitive. Will that continue? Vincent always seems to manage to pull it together for Nats, no matter how much he has struggled (or in this case, been absent) during the first part of the season. Will Camden or Andrew T challenge any of these guys next year? Will Yaroslav Paniot land all his quads and be a surprise medal winner?

What’s interesting to me is that the new guys coming up don’t seem to be drawing a ton of excitement or anticipation. I don’t mean they don’t have fans or admirers - they absolutely do - but for the most part, they don’t really seem to compel people to want to talk about them much. And I wonder why that is. Is it because no-one except Nathan and Vincent (both in school) are really competitive at the World level that we don’t talk about them more? That wasn’t the case in the past - people were interested in guys’ improvements and their stories.

Anyway, Golden Spin is coming up soon. It’s not a very competitive field, but the US men are interesting- Jason, Camden, and Alex are all scheduled to compete. Jason won it last year, but although he looked like he was going to have a good season after SA, he didn’t look very good (to put it mildly) at NHK. Camden looked really good in Canada and is landing quads now (more than we can say for Jason) but not so great in China. Alexei is improving his presentation but is also upping his tech a lot - and he’s struggled in competition so far. Any thoughts on what we’ll see from these three at Golden Spin?

As someone who obsessively followed the thread last year, I'd say there was a good deal of interest in last year in 1) Jason's move to Orser, 2) how would Nathan deal with figure skating and school, 3) Vincent and his URs (this being very unfortunate but it did bring a lot of people out of the woodwork, for better or worse), and 4) who was USA #2 and #3. Looking ahead to this season, Jason has definitely settled into his routine with Orser, Nathan continues to balance school with skating, Vincent has been mostly MIA, and USA #2 and #3 is pretty clear at this point.

RE: Vincent and school... I think there was a lot more media attention paid to Nathan because he's the world champ and everyone doubted that school and skating could work. Now that Nathan has proven that it can work, the media has pretty much moved on. Karen did get a couple of other articles, but she's also competing on the GP. Had Vincent kept his GP assignments, we'd probably see a lot more coverage on it, particularly if he managed high placements (and given how things have gone, I lament that he didn't try).

As for the Tomoki, Camden, Alex, Andrew contingent.... they were really talked about A LOT - Perhaps interest has dropped because they haven't been doing as well as fans have hoped? (Last season Tomoki, Camden, and Andrew all qualified for the JGPF and were top contenders for the JWC title.) I don't know what others expected, but I personally expected a lot of growing pains out of them. Tomoki is trying a 1 quad SP, 2 quad FS for the first time (he seems to have gotten the 4T down, his problem is the 3A for some reason). In a previous article he mentioned that he wanted to add a 4S too and he's been training a 4Lz. All of that could have affected his timing for everything else. Camden is trying a quad for the first time ever, and he's always been a nervy competitor to begin with. Plus he's got a brand new coaching team and it definitely takes time to adjust to a new coaching situation. I perhaps expected a bit more progress from Alex since he's finally injury free and has now been with his new coaches for over a year. To me it seems a better strategy to focus on getting the 4L consistent rather than going gung-ho on the 4F but well... I'm not a coach. Alex has never really been that successful landing quads so this is fairly new territory for him too. I also expected more out of Andrew since he's made the JGPF for the last two years and it's really unfortunate he wasn't able to make it this year.

That being said, the GP series in general has been pretty chaotic. It just hit me looking at the ISU PB and SB lists how many top international men are struggling this season. Our guys aren't doing that bad really (Vincent wasn't exactly stellar in his senior GP debut, 4th and 9th I think). I'm certainly hoping for a better back-half of the season. Tomoki straightened himself out by Nationals. I guess we'll know more after Golden Spin. I don't expect layout changes from either Camden or Alex, but I hope Jason takes out the quad and focuses on going clean. That would help his mentality a lot (which I believe is what he did last year, go for clean rather than difficulty).

RE: Goku Endo
I confess I know nothing about him but is it bad that I want him to do well mainly so he can one day get sent to Japan and the fans can throw him dragonball stuffies? (Because that would be so awesome...and the Japanese fans would love him there.)

 

[Skater Boy]

I think if charismatic Jason was winning he would have Yuzuru level fan base. My friend was saying who studies marketing that Nathan may be more generally appealing to certain brands with certain images that are a different market than a Yuzuru type who often have a cuteness (Pooh) factor. I think one poster said Jason appeared near a breakthrough. I think we all are hoping His skating is so beautiful. Although objectively, I compare him to a Chan type. Chan is not nearly as charismatic but beautiful skating skills and text book everything when on. Not as many quads as the jumpsters now. And yes, he had isssues with the axel some time - like Jason but unlike Jason he was a slighlty better skater (edge quality) and jumper. I am not sure if Jason has even tried a quad in competition this year let alone landed one. If the ladies need a quad to win well probably the men too. This is a big year in some ways. It is the two year mark after worlds before the next olympics. Skaters who are debating whether to continue usually decide this year (2020 worlds) whether they want to try for 2022. The argument is why quit with just one year before the olympics; might as well try. So we'll see. The good thing for Jason's chances are he is talented, he is working with Brian and Tracy and I am guessing he has resources and fan base. If he doesn't make the world team though it may be a tough decision. Still other than Nathan the door is wide open. We haven't seen Vincent. Alex, tomoki, Cam et al are not consistent and still developing so Jason islooking safe for now. Here's hoping the US gets a male with an intriguing program or new blood that triggers interest - and more insightful comments here. I think regardless of thenumber of posts it is an interesting time in men's skating in the US. I mean, the US has the two time world champ, the world bronze medallist and one of the most popular male skaters and stylists in Brown. That's impressive.

 

[alexaa]

Compared to other skaters, none of the US men are super active on social media, but the general media covered Nathan's school/skating balance a lot. Between NBC, Lynn, and Phil, there were constant updates about where he was at. Even Karen has gotten a few features about how she is balancing everything.

Nathan only got lots of media coverage when the news of him planning to go Yale was first out, which is right after he became world champion. He won the medal on 03/24/2018. He liked a Yale admission post on the 29th, and updated his IG profile to add Yale ‘22 on April 1st, which prompted lots of speculations at that time. There were threads in this forum as well as in FSU to discuss his school situation last year. Phil had an phone interview with him around that time which provided little bit more details. But the subsequent media coverage of his school coincided with every SOI stop last year, and there were quite a few SOI cities than SOI this year. To me the news article were more to promote the show. There was an NBC article after the Bulldog day, and coincidentally, that was around time he attended the Figure Skating in Harlem event. There was basic very limited to none media coverage since that seminar he did together with Karen right after SOI Oregon, and Karen was also featured in that video segment. There were much more articles/interviews from Japanese media than in US about his plan at school, his programs for the new season etc.

Last summer, there was only one USFS fan zone report about him going to New Haven right after Champs Camp. There was no news about him until right before SkAm. After that there was little news about him before GPF except a local Fox News segment when the crew went to Yale to film Yale Hockey team, but found him practicing at the rink. He did have interview with Meryl, John Wilson and ISU after winning GPF.

To me, the amount of media coverage is the result of that he is first world Champion from US in 9 years, and the first world champion to attend a school far away from his coach, the number of ice shows he had last year, and him winning SkAm and GPF.

Vincent was actually featured on the cover of Skating magazine before he headed for school . He did have some news article back in April, he also had an NBC article probably in July, which was the center of discussion in this thread. There were quite a few articles in August with one talking about him taking over his own skating finally. Besides those, USFigure skating posted on IG about him and Karen. They did list Nathan in the IG post caption, but Nathan was not actually in the article in their link, which caused some confusion among Nathan fans.

As to the discussion of this thread around this time, iirc, most of the discussions were about Vincent and Jason. Vincent’s UR calls, injuries, coaching issues, Jason’s adjustments to TCC, possibilities of quad, programs etc, and who would be the number 2 men. Both Camden and Tomoki made to the JGPF, so there were some discussions about them, and Camden not making much progress under his previous coach. There were quite some discussions about Vincent and Camden switching coaches.

There were actually not that much Nathan discussion in the US men’s thread last year, and there were more costumes discussion than discussions of balancing school and skating. Most of the articles about him were posted in Nathan’s FF. My impression is that there were more Nathan discussion this year, simply because of the scoring issues. There will be lots of Vincent discussions if he didn’t withdraw from GP.

As to training details, lots of Nathan’s training details were from Japanese media, Russia media, as well as pod cast interview with Lilah Fear. We learned that he didn’t communicate as frequent with Raf from his interview with Jack Gallagher, we learned he Skyped with Raf only four times the whole last season from interview with Lilah Fear. Nathan was very active on social media, but he seldom posted training stuff, he even seldom posted competitions and medals.

For those of you who are interested in how Vincent is doing, you can probably follow his a Japanese fan account on Twitter. That account seemed to get pictures or info from Vincent’s team. There hadn’t lots of activities going since after Japan Open in the beginning of October.

 

[fzztsimmons]

I think if charismatic Jason was winning he would have Yuzuru level fan base. My friend was saying who studies marketing that Nathan may be more generally appealing to certain brands with certain images that are a different market than a Yuzuru type who often have a cuteness (Pooh) factor. I think one poster said Jason appeared near a breakthrough. I think we all are hoping His skating is so beautiful. Although objectively, I compare him to a Chan type. Chan is not nearly as charismatic but beautiful skating skills and text book everything when on. Not as many quads as the jumpsters now. And yes, he had isssues with the axel some time - like Jason but unlike Jason he was a slighlty better skater (edge quality) and jumper. I am not sure if Jason has even tried a quad in competition this year let alone landed one. If the ladies need a quad to win well probably the men too. This is a big year in some ways. It is the two year mark after worlds before the next olympics. Skaters who are debating whether to continue usually decide this year (2020 worlds) whether they want to try for 2022. The argument is why quit with just one year before the olympics; might as well try. So we'll see. The good thing for Jason's chances are he is talented, he is working with Brian and Tracy and I am guessing he has resources and fan base. If he doesn't make the world team though it may be a tough decision. Still other than Nathan the door is wide open. We haven't seen Vincent. Alex, tomoki, Cam et al are not consistent and still developing so Jason islooking safe for now. Here's hoping the US gets a male with an intriguing program or new blood that triggers interest - and more insightful comments here. I think regardless of thenumber of posts it is an interesting time in men's skating in the US. I mean, the US has the two time world champ, the world bronze medallist and one of the most popular male skaters and stylists in Brown. That's impressive.

Jason has already said he wants to go for 2022.
He hasn't tried a quad in competition (edit: this season), though he was practicing quad salchows at Skate America and quad toes at NHK. At Skate America he said he was putting out a slightly watered down content due to his recent concussion. At NHK I think the quad was vetoed because of his uncharacteristic problems in the short.
Jason knows he needs to be jumping quads.
Regardless, he still came fifth at NHK with four falls in total over the SP and LP which it the most mistakes he's made in a while, because every other single point he can get is maxed out, and the quality of his skating is so supreme.
I think Jason will be fine, there's a lot less pressure at Golden Spin and also he hasn't had much competition time this year, he had to withdraw from his challengers due to his concussion so he's literally only competed at his two GPs. I'm sure things will be looking better by Nationals

 

[karne]

Jason has already said he wants to go for 2022.
He hasn't tried a quad in competition

Yes, he has. He's tried on several occasions, actually (and I will always, always maintain that his 4T at SkAm 2016 should have been credited if they were going to credit Adam's). Stood up a few times too, though a little short on rotation.

I am sick of the narrative that Jason is "too scared" or "doesn't even try" the quad.

 

[fzztsimmons]

Yes, he has. He's tried on several occasions, actually (and I will always, always maintain that his 4T at SkAm 2016 should have been credited if they were going to credit Adam's). Stood up a few times too, though a little short on rotation.

I am sick of the narrative that Jason is "too scared" or "doesn't even try" the quad.

Sorry, I was referring to this season specifically in regard for the quad in competition. I was answering the poster who asked “I don’t know if Jason has tried a quad in competition this year”.
I’ll edit my original post to make this more clear.

 

[Jammers]

It is kind of exciting. US has Nathan Chen out to defend his title. They have the current world bronze medallist and of course they have Jason Brown the great stylist. It is unfortunate not more interest is occurring.

I think part of the lack of interest is when you get beyond the top 3 US men right now there isn't a lot of depth or contenders especially compared to 4-5 years ago. Of course ironically back then no one besides Max could really do quads consistently and no one was a threat to make the World podium unlike now with Nathan and Vincent but the men's field 1-10 was stacked with quality skaters who had won multiple GP and international medals which you can't say right now. US men had the best depth in the world but because of the lack of quads they couldn't contend for the podium.

 

[Mrs. P]

I agree we did have a lot more depth in 2017-2018. Consider we had three men in the GPF that season (and I think one or two more who medaled on the GP), as well as two men in the JGPF as well.

This season we only have one man in the GPF, we only had two U.S. men medal at all and we didn't qualify anyone for JGPF.

I personally think there are some promising U.S. men rising up the ranks, but they are just not as popular with fans as Max and Adam were.

 

[mrrice]

With all this talk about Max, I will say one thing. He was very popular with my Non-skating friends. Especially his Tron SP. My male friends who knew nothing about skating thought that program was "Cool". Unfortunately, I was never able to see Max in person but I loved his speed and big jumps.

 

[sheetz]

US men didn't even medal on the JGP this year. When was the last time that happened?