2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[ancientpeas]

I think we can celebrate the accomplishments of one coach without diminishing the accomplishments of another.

I agree that what Eteri's group has been able to accomplish is pretty incredible especially in such a short period of time. What the TCC has accomplished is also incredible. And what Marina Zueva *spelling, I can't look it up* and Gabois and the Mozer group and my my beloved Tamara Moskvina.

There is lots of room for different coaches and styles and for us to notice all of their good points.

However no one, not Eteri, nor Brian, nor anyone is immune from criticism. Not everything Eteri does is the apex of brilliance and the same goes for Brian.

 

[kmw227]

I really hope Daniil starts announcing music soon so there's something new to talk about instead of things that have been discussed hundreds of times already

 

[Fluture]

Did Zagitova said she lost motivation because Anna Alexandra Aliona were ready to go? And I don't get why are you so bored to write their names.

No, she did not say that and it was not what I said either. I don’t know where you managed to read that into my words.

Further, you might have noticed the inverted commas I used when I wrote 3A. It was intentional to show the point that in the grand scheme of things, it doesn‘t really matter who comes along as long as there‘s someone who keeps up the TeamTutberidze domination.

Normally I try to type out their name as respect towards them. You can see this in that I‘ve not used 3A in my entire post anywhere else.

 

[Resa]

Excuse me? Ice dancing is a sporting discipline in its own right and it‘s just as difficult and deserving of respect as skating that “leaves the ice“. I am pretty confident that most of the current top single skaters would struggle to perform on the top level in ice dance. That’s because the requirements are just so vastly different. You can prefer single skating (I know I do) but that doesn‘t mean you get to disrespect ice dancers like that.

Now, I have no idea what Moir said about Alina, I‘ve never heard anything about it. It would be good if someone offered a source, me thinks. If he did indeed disrespect her in some way, that‘s of course disappointing. But even if he did - diminishing his talents doesn‘t make the whole situation any better at all.

Exactly that!! Ice Dance looks incredible (altough much more when seen live than in TV). I was in Turin and GPF pretty much only to see the Ladies, and what did I end up anticipating the most after Qualifications? Junior Ice Dance!! It's really impressive, they are fast, intricate, and the choreo is on another level. I became a big fan of it this winter, and watching any other disciplines step sequence afterwards, it felt very bland and boring. But on TV, I still find singles Ladies skating to be more exiting than ice dance somehow

 

[Resa]

Excuse me if I interrupt this nice argument, but can I ask the intermediate question whether anyone here knows what percentage of the coaching in TT is still attributed to Eteri at all?

I guess Eteri does the finishing choreo touches and is probably responsible for the tough mindset these girls have. And probably organising/scheduling. But I'm only speculating

 

[Thrashergurl]

I suppose it's all about perspective. Here's mine:

In 2013-2014: Yulia won the GPF silver medal, World silver medal, and Team OGM. Evgenia won the JGPF and JWC bronze medals.
In 2014-2015: Evgenia won the JGPF and JWC gold medals, and Serafima won the JGPF and JWC silver medals.
In 2015-2016: Evgenia won the GPF, RusNats, Euros, and Worlds gold medals, and Polina won the JGPF gold medal
In 2016-2017: Evgenia again won the GPF, RusNats, Euros, and Worlds gold medals, Polina won JGP and JrNats medals, and Alina won the JGPF and JWC gold medals.
In 2017-2018: Evgenia won the silver medals at Euros, Olympic team event, and Olympic individual events. And, Alina won the GPF, RusNats, Euros, and Worlds.
In 2018-2019: Alina won Worlds and the silver medal at the GPF. Elizabet won the silver medal at 4CC, Winter Universiade, and Worlds.
In 2019-2020: Aliona won the GPF and Euros and a silver medal at RusNats, Anna won RusNats and silver medals at the GPF and Euros, and Aleksandra won bronze medals at the GPF, RusNats, and Euros.

That's not even taking into account the junior skaters or the individual JGP/GP and challenger events, nor considering that most of her skaters are still skating (Anna, Aliona, juniors, etc., plus Alina's possible (hopeful!) return and Elizabet, who has not announced a retirement). I would call that dominating the sport for years

Alina didn’t win Worlds 2017-2018. She didn’t medal at worlds at all that year. I believe she was off the podium.

 

[VenusHalley]

Alina didn’t win Worlds 2017-2018. She didn’t medal at worlds at all that year. I believe she was off the podium.

KInda funny how some live in alternative timeline where Alina DID NOT fall three times in 2018 worlds.

(Sure, she got small silver medal... but by that logic Carolina is a world champion of that year).

 

[Mathman]

Spirals for Miles made a typo ("Worlds" instead of "Olympics") in listing Alina's accomplishments in 2017-2018. Nothing to make an issue about.

 

[Good Vibes Only]

KInda funny how some live in alternative timeline where Alina DID NOT fall three times in 2018 worlds.

(Sure, she got small silver medal... but by that logic Carolina is a world champion of that year).

I am sure that it was an honest mistake by Spirals for Miles. That was a lot of information in one post, so something like that could have easily been mistaken.

 

[Amei]

Alina didn’t win Worlds 2017-2018. She didn’t medal at worlds at all that year. I believe she was off the podium.

The poster probably meant Olympics, since that's missing off the plentiful list of accomplishments for the year.

at 2017-2018 Worlds Zagitova finished 5th.

 

[TallyT]

It appears my humble post which mentioned a number of nonRussianLadies simply to make a point about Russian ladies and their coach has spawned a positively Lovecraftian response, for which I apologise to everyone who is NOT involved.

Please note, I was not comparing Brian or any other coach past or present to her, but comparing how they as a grouped profession will probably be in the history books to their students, the competitors and actual stars including Zagitova. We obviously don't know what the future will say about today's heroines ("History is not what you think. It is what you can remember.") but I stand by my prediction that the skaters will be the ones the bulk of fans will be interested in: which skaters, we can't predict because fame is an unruly Cthulhu.

 

[lesnar001]

Alina didn’t win Worlds 2017-2018. She didn’t medal at worlds at all that year. I believe she was off the podium.

KInda funny how some live in alternative timeline where Alina DID NOT fall three times in 2018 worlds.

(Sure, she got small silver medal... but by that logic Carolina is a world champion of that year).

In your zeal for accuracy, it's funny how neither one of you cared to correct the OP's omission of Alina winning the Olympic Gold Medal (and team Silver) in 2018.

I am bringing this up not to criticize the OP, because I am 99.99999% sure they made a simple mistake and typed "Worlds" instead of "Olympics".

I'm just curious why neither of you posted a correction for THAT particular mistake. :confused2:

 

[flanker]

This question proves that you are slipping into victimhood again. My question is not enough or not enough. I only notice again and again that on the one hand there is always talk of the Tutberidze team, but then only Eteri is spoken of. Not a word from Daniil or the two Sergejs. This affects both fans and critics. And I'm surprised at the number of their students and what they say.

To be honest, when I was writing my reply, I've mentioned both Sergei and Daniil, but before posting I've shortened my reply because you asked particularly about Eteri. So, the reply mentions only Eteri as well. Your reply only shows you are not prepared to accept the reply that was not according to your expectations, though perfectly fits the tone of your question.

BTW, Eteri herself recognizes Sergei's and Daniil's merit and always states their work is team work.

 

[Tolstoj]

Exactly. There is no need for Eteri to go back and fix the older ones, because she has younger ones coming up. Eteri coaches in Sambo 70 yes, but her students mostly all have triple jumps when they come to her - with the exception of maybe Yulia, Zhenya, and her own daughter. And look at where they all went under their guidance once their bodies began to follow nature.

It is true that girls with a certain physique that is partly made from genetics and youth is easier to work with. Like genetically, Medvedeav's physique was able to hold on for that Olympic season whereas someone like Yulia wouldn't have been able to. You are allowed to have your own opinoin on it, but it is a factory that has to this point, found success. But the success has not found itself longevity and sustainability. There is a reason that the technique that makes the girls so successful when they are young fails when they are just a bit older, and they get replaced.

The technique they are pushing is all about upper body work and fast rotation, which is best suited for that extremely thin pre-puberty body and they showed over the years that it works perfectly but it has a clear deadline by the time the body starts to change significantly cause you gain more muscles but also more weight which does affect the speed on rotation but also give you more strenght for bigger jumps. (so in theory you could work on it)

I'd say the best years of many of these girls in terms of technique is often before they debut in seniors, sometimes even before they debut in juniors. I stumbled across a video the other day which showed Valieva's lutz already regressing in terms of pre-rotation and edge not as clear as before and the full blade on the ice (which has always been there) compared to her novice days.

That is why any sort of comparison with other coaches make little sense: Orser works with all types of skaters with completely different bodies, ages,... and they tend to keep them. They are not going for a particular type of body at a particular age as Tutberidze does.

The closest comparison abroad is maybe Mie Hamada especially with the technique but even in her case it's not really a system.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Alina didn’t win Worlds 2017-2018. She didn’t medal at worlds at all that year. I believe she was off the podium.

Spirals for Miles made a typo ("Worlds" instead of "Olympics") in listing Alina's accomplishments in 2017-2018. Nothing to make an issue about.

I am sure that it was an honest mistake by Spirals for Miles. That was a lot of information in one post, so something like that could have easily been mistaken.

Fixed! Thanks for letting me know! Edited to change "worlds" to "Olympics" and add the accomplishments of the juniors over the past three years

KInda funny how some live in alternative timeline where Alina DID NOT fall three times in 2018 worlds.

(Sure, she got small silver medal... but by that logic Carolina is a world champion of that year).

Oh, I definitely am not in an alternative timeline - I well remember my sadness watching Alina's FS at Worlds, but much prefer to remember my joy at watching her Olympic FS. I updated the post accordingly - and added Alina's team medal

 

[Thrashergurl]

In your zeal for accuracy, it's funny how neither one of you cared to correct the OP's omission of Alina winning the Olympic Gold Medal (and team Silver) in 2018.

I am bringing this up not to criticize the OP, because I am 99.99999% sure they made a simple mistake and typed "Worlds" instead of "Olympics".

I'm just curious why neither of you posted a correction for THAT particular mistake. :confused2:

Uncertain why you’re trying to make more of it than necessary. I was simply pointing out that Alina didn’t win Worlds that year.

I’m also not the original poster, so obviously I was responding to what was actually posted and had no way of knowing the poster had made a mistake. I can’t read minds and certainly have no idea what someone meant to post vs what was actually posted.

I’m certain that had I made a post with such errors it would be corrected immediately.

 

[Fried]

To be honest, when I was writing my reply, I've mentioned both Sergei and Daniil, but before posting I've shortened my reply because you asked particularly about Eteri. So, the reply mentions only Eteri as well. Your reply only shows you are not prepared to accept the reply that was not according to your expectations, though perfectly fits the tone of your question.

BTW, Eteri herself recognizes Sergei's and Daniil's merit and always states their work is team work.

I didn't "particularly ask about Eteri". Especially not in a certain tone (it only exists in your head). I asked how big her share in coaching might be at the moment. It is not me who cannot accept an answer. You are the one who cannot accept that there are people who ask a question because they are interested in something. There is only friend or enemy in your world. Behind every question that is not clearly formulated pro Eteri, you sense an attack on your darling, which you must immediately ward off on your behalf. But the world is not just black and white. I've written it several times. For me, Eteri is a successful coach with positive and negative sides that everyone has. She is not an over-coach. Eterislouisvuitton and Tolstoi got to the heart of the TT recipe for success very well. Whether you are positive or negative is up to you.

But back to my humble question. Of course, Eteri recognizes the merits of her team. My point, however, is that lovers and critics (!) obviously only talk about Eteri when it comes to the pros and cons of the way that the coaching team is so successful. Critics in particular should not forget that this system is not only supported by Eteri.

 

[Happy Skates]

KInda funny how some live in alternative timeline where Alina DID NOT fall three times in 2018 worlds.

(Sure, she got small silver medal... but by that logic Carolina is a world champion of that year).

Funny how that doesn't affect the argument that was being made at all, and it was clearly a typo, not an "alternative timeline". I'd like to introduce you to a term called "benefit of the doubt", it can come in handy sometimes . Although tbh there wasn't much doubt, in my humble opinion, it was clear what Spirals meant.

And yes, Eteri has dominated ladies skating for several years now. In short, between all of the ladies junior and senior championships and GPFs since 2015, there are only three that haven't been won by a student of hers, and one of those was a post Olympics Worlds, in a season where she dominated the ladies event at the Olympics and had students win 4/6 GPs, the GPF, Nationals, and Euros. Since 2015, the biggest ladies competition of the year has always been won by a student of hers, sometimes with more than one on the podium.

 

[Skatesocs]

Funny to think about Eteri's LV purse typing up posts

 

[halulupu]

And no, Eteri is not "dominating" the sport for "years". That's again perception. In 2013/ 14 season she had Yulia. No olympic medals in singles, only a silver medal at worlds. In the 2014/15 season she didn't had any successful senior skaters. Them came Medvedeva, that was about it. The olympic season, Medvedeva slowly faded away, Zagitova was the star. No world medal in that season. Post olympic season she didn't had a real star.
Zagitova winning worlds in that season was nice, but it was still a weak performance. Oh, and btw, Tursynbaeva disappeared after that season.
Last season was as expected, the juniors having a good first senior season- it'a a typical trend, we had this before with Kihira, Higuchi, Mihara, Kaori, Yulia and co. Looking at the performances, none of the "3A" had a clean or in any kind special skate. It was ( and still is) just a huge hype around nothing.

Funny. You dont need to like eteri, but not to admit that she with her many skater did dominate the sport in ladies is just fake news