2021 U.S. Nationals: Senior Ladies - Free Skate

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Glenn is actually giving me Kaori Sakamoto vibes. A strong jumper who is rough around the edges but still lots of potential. You could see she was determined in that FS. I think sending her to Worlds over Mariah might be a a fairer decision - but it’s unlikely international judges will give Glenn that kind of PCS. But if Mariah has a FS like she did here, then 3 spots is likely gone. I feel like they might actually send Karen as the second spot. They can justify sending Bell over Glenn but Chen has more clout and showed up to these Nationals. Her landings might get destroyed by international tech panels though so that’s a consideration too. Almost all the skaters were given leniency in some form here (see: Tennell’s UR in the SP).

Side note: I think Amber Glenn is the first openly LGBT woman to win a senior medal at Nationals, if I’m not mistaken?

 

[Maribelle]

haha the US commentators kill me trying to hype up the women. It would take us decades to get to their level!

I'd say the top 6 US ladies are pretty strong, just need to have a few of them be able to learn triple axel and a quad. A few of them are training them, Bradie, Alyssa, Amber and Lindsay. I think US needs to have a better program though for the younger skaters coming up.

 

[demarinis5]

Congrats to Bradie on regaining her National Title, well done! Also Congrats to Amber and Karen
for winning Silver and Bronze. Is Mariah injured? Alysa Lui is sunshine and a star, I see
good things for her in the future.

If World's go forward I believe the US will send Bradie and Mariah as we all know they don't have to make their decision
on Nationals placement other than the winner, maybe they will surprise me.

 

[lariko]

I am finally catching up, since my version is NBC with a few short programs thrown in. It’s hard to watch because commentators don’t stop talking for a single second.

I am glad Alyssa Liu is back, fingers crossed she gets the jumps back. I guess, I expected more energy from Bell, so a bit underwhelmed there, but Tennell was recognizable, though I like it a bit more when she skates in bright coloured costumes.

too bad for 3A not happening from Glen her free was my favourite, I love the power!

 

[moonvine]

Medal "ceremony"





(geez, twitter embedding is hard lol)

I know they try. Bless them. But this looks like the “medal ceremonies” at Senior Olympics where we wait for the results to be posted and go fish our own medals out of a box on the honor system.

 

[moonvine]

And that would be terrible as well.

People that get chosen on reputation rather than current results always ends up badly.

It’s very prevalent in team sports as well unfortunately.

Especially when it’s your team and you want to get rid of the overpriced, underproducing talent but the owner loves him.

Let me run US figure skating. I’ll definitely have medal contenders in no time.

Start by giving a few Russian ladies US citizenship. That will solve 90% of the problem off the bat. Hahaha

It’s not reputation. It’s talent. USA Gymnastics holds an Olympic Trials. The winner makes the team (basically, there are still rules involved with that). Then they all go into a room and we all wait until they come out and announce the Olympic Team. They don’t reward athletes for having a hot streak for a single competition. They never just pick the top 6 or 5 or 4. Ever. USAG has terrible problems obviously. Nassar, the Karolyis. I’m not condoning their treatment of athletes at all. But the Olympic Teams they have picked have done very well.

Please do not import any Russian ladies. I actually like watching our ladies skate.

 

[moonvine]

Glenn is actually giving me Kaori Sakamoto vibes. A strong jumper who is rough around the edges but still lots of potential. You could see she was determined in that FS. I think sending her to Worlds over Mariah might be a a fairer decision - but it’s unlikely international judges will give Glenn that kind of PCS. But if Mariah has a FS like she did here, then 3 spots is likely gone. I feel like they might actually send Karen as the second spot. They can justify sending Bell over Glenn but Chen has more clout and showed up to these Nationals. Her landings might get destroyed by international tech panels though so that’s a consideration too. Almost all the skaters were given leniency in some form here (see: Tennell’s UR in the SP).

Side note: I think Amber Glenn is the first openly LGBT woman to win a senior medal at Nationals, if I’m not mistaken?

Yes! She is!!

 

[moonvine]

Too simplistic and makes no sense. What are you talking about? The U.S. ladies are strong and have depth. There is no gymnastic analogy. In figure skating, politics has a great deal to do with judging placements. Plus, Rusfed politics and the rise of Eteri's teenybopper phenoms has overtaken the discipline and the sport.

The landscape has changed. The U.S. was spoiled during the Michelle Kwan era. U.S. fed has always been behind-the-times and have always lacked political savvy. Forget about long term, strategic thinking to benefit their athletes. It is what it is. But it's not as woeful as fans on every forum love to lament. I always point out that U.S. ladies still hold the record for most Worlds and Olympics medals. It will take Russia, Japan, and South Korea many more years to catch up to that record. At this rate, Russia might get there first, but they have a long way to go. And trends and politics can change.

I'm more concerned about the welfare and well-being of athletes and of the sport than about yahooing for teenybopper quads and 3-axels. When Eteri began making waves on the scene with Lipnitskaya et al., the key to her success was planned strategy and the packaging methodology that she learned during her time in the U.S. She gave Lipnitskaya something that camouflaged her weaknesses and brought a tear to audiences eyes. Medvedeva always had poor technique, but blazing determination, quick rotations and consistency. Med benefited from Gracie Gold's meltdown at 2016 Worlds. It is what it is.

Kaitlyn Osmond was the best all-around skater among the ladies at the 2018 Olympics, but due to the over-hype and Rusfed politics and competitive strengths of Zagitova and Medvedeva, it was apparently in the bag that the competition for gold was only between those two Russian ladies. But look who won Worlds that year. The following year Zagitova had grown, Medvedeva had fled to Orser for redemption. No more bells and whistles for Zagitova to hide her tech weaknesses. Her crossovers were ugly, but she's beautiful and her competitive mindset along with justification by the judges for her Olympic gold, helped Zagitova to win 2019 Worlds. Where is Zag now?

I will say that the current crop of Eteri phenoms don't require the bells and whistles quite as much, and a few of them learned better technique prior to being coached by Eteri so that helps. To each their own. I'm just not that into watching skinny, desperate teenyboppers with Olympic rings in their eyes being overpraised and over-rewarded for quad and 3-axel smackdowns.

I want to see complete expressive skating with technical excellence and depth by mature young ladies who aren't daunted by being disrespected and having a nearly impossible mountain to climb, often domestically and internationally.

Thank you Bradie Tennell!!! Thank you Amber Glenn!!! Thank you Karen Chen!!!

Keep your head held high, Mariah Bell!!! Kudos Alysa Liu for your competitive grit!!!

Co-sign. All this. You said what I feel much more eloquently.

 

[ice coverage]

I know they try. Bless them. But this looks like the “medal ceremonies” at Senior Olympics where we wait for the results to be posted and go fish our own medals out of a box on the honor system.

For me, safety during the pandemic is way more important than the usual pomp and circumstance of medal ceremonies in a non-pandemic season.

IMO, the low-key medal ceremonies this season are far preferable to unnecessary gatherings of many more people for video/photo opps showing elaborate presentation of medals and flowers.

 

[moonvine]

Great competition!

Bradie: No doubt about it, this was a deserved win. She was on in both programs. Last year she got outshined by Mariah and Alysa; this year she seemed more focused and determined than ever to go out there and take that title back. I'm just so sad she wasn't able to experience that performance in front of an audience and have that moment. It was such a powerful and intense program and Bradie delivered it so well, I know she'd have brought the house down. I admire her drive and determination so much. Congrats to her on her 2nd national title.

Amber: Finally! She's been a threat for a medal since she debuted back in 2015 but she could never keep it together for the FS. It was great to see her finally keep her focus and skate cleanly. And kudos to her for thinking on her feet and adding that double toe after she missed the combo at the beginning. That double toe was the difference between 2nd and 3rd. I wish she could have experienced this performance in front of an audience as well. It was her first time skating two clean programs and winning a medal--the crowd would have gone crazy for her and it sucks she doesn't get to have that moment. Very happy for her!

Karen: Such a joy to see her skating with consistency. Karen is just gorgeous to watch and she has so many excellent qualities. I actually would have had her second here in front of Amber. They are very similar in terms of their skating (fast and powerful) and it was close, but I'd give Karen the edge on artistry and expression. Karen has made some real strides this season and I'm so proud of her for fighting her way back to the podium. Fingers crossed she can carry this momentum into next season.

Alysa: I'm so proud of this girl. To see how far she's come over the past year is really impressive. Even without the big tricks she's highly competitive in this field. She was less than 2 points away from silver--on base points alone, had she rotated that downgraded 3S she'd have scored 216+ and won silver. That's gotta be encouraging for her and her team as they look towards next season. I loved her upgraded styling here: hair, makeup, dresses, all lovely. I'm excited for her. I hope she continues to work hard, tries to get those bigger elements back and takes that next step in terms of her programs next year. After all of the doubt, negativity, naysayers and straight up nastiness towards her this past year, Alysa proved she is far from being done in this sport. So proud of her!

Mariah: This just wasn't her year. Despite the fact she won SA, I felt like everyone else was progressing and getting better...but it seemed like Mariah was standing still if not going backwards a bit. I don't know if the expectation got to her or what, but this was a disappointing competition for her. The jumps were wonky and unsteady and the programs were not up to her usual par. This rearranged version of her ABBA program is better, but I still don't like it. I don't feel like her heart was in it. I hope they're able to go back to the drawing board. If a spot on the world/Olympic team is her goal she has a lot of work to do.

Lindsay: There's some real talent there. I'm interested to see how she develops. Her jumps are lovely when she lands them and her spins are gorgeous. Definitely needs more connection and personality in terms of her performance but I'm keeping my eye on her.

Audrey: Pretty sure she was feeling the pressure coming into this competition after winning bronze at SA. Her SP was a bit of thud but I was happy to see her fight her way back in the FS. Fingers crossed she takes this as a lesson and continues to grow.

Gracie: It's clear she's in much better shape in terms of her jumps. Her warmup jumps looked really solid. She has that spring and height to her lutz and flip. Her spins and steps are okay but they aren't focusing on getting the levels which is hurting her score. Essentially, she has the pieces to be competitive...she's just struggling to put them together. We're a year out from Beijing and her chances are looking pretty bleak. As of now she's a non-factor. I won't say it's impossible, but at this point it would take a monumental 180 turn for Gracie to put herself in the conversation for one of those top two spots.


Congrats to all of the medalists! Amber and Karen have proven their potential which makes it feel like the field suddenly got bigger. They've always been there as potential spoilers but you can't do jack with potential. It's official now--there are 5 contenders who are capable of getting one of those 2 spots to Beijing. Nationals should be really interesting next year.

And BTW, if worlds happens, there is zero doubt the team should be Bradie and Amber. I love Mariah but she hasn't proven herself to be competitive this year. Even when she won SA it was with an under-rotated combo in the SP and watered down content in the FS. Amber has the content and has definitely earned her spot.

First we may not have the Olympics in the correct year. I don’t know how vaccinations are going in other countries but they aren’t going well here. And athletes (in the US) would be among the last to get it based on stated government priorities. Is Russia still giving that untested vaccine that is killing people? But my understanding is that if the Tokyo Olympics are not held this year that the Winter Games will be pushed back also.
The Olympics is obviously such a much bigger event than anything else it is going to be a terrible challenge to try to hold it safely. And having had to build an entire new infrastructure it would be financially ruinous to try to hold without spectators. It’s usually financially ruinous anyway. So I think Olympic predictions are pretty premature.
Secondly I never count Gracie out of anything ever. People talk about having to re learn jump technique. She pretty much had to learn to skate again.

 

[moonvine]

For me, safety during the pandemic is way more important than the usual pomp and circumstance of medal ceremonies in a non-pandemic season.

IMO, the low-key medal ceremonies this season are far preferable to gathering many more people together for video/photo opps.

I agree 10000%. I also agree with not having spectators (though I think it is a little much to not allow coaches in the K&C when they are clearly at the boards during practice). And apparently the number of coaches is limited as well? I know Chris Knierim has been watching the practice cam from home and he’s listed as one of K/F’s coaches. Maybe the trappings are not as important to the athletes?

 

[alexocfp]

It’s not reputation. It’s talent. USA Gymnastics holds an Olympic Trials. The winner makes the team (basically, there are still rules involved with that). Then they all go into a room and we all wait until they come out and announce the Olympic Team. They don’t reward athletes for having a hot streak for a single competition. They never just pick the top 6 or 5 or 4. Ever. USAG has terrible problems obviously. Nassar, the Karolyis. I’m not condoning their treatment of athletes at all. But the Olympic Teams they have picked have done very well.

Please do not import any Russian ladies. I actually like watching our ladies skate.

If someone bombs their trials to the extent of your hypothetical, and still gets chosen, it’s the absolute definition of being picked on reputation.

Many a sports have fallen into the trap of giving playing time to people past their expiration date.

Not choosing Bell is actually better for her. It will force her to reevaluate her game and either improve to overtake her competitors or not.

Sports is, and should always remain, a meritocracy. People in charge should always have a what have you done for me lately mentality. It’s the only way you go forward, improve and remain competitive.

No room for sentimentality.

Biles being good now doesn’t mean she should have an automatic spot until she is 50.

 

[ManyCairns]

I just have to come back and say that I am gutted for Mariah. She just looked tense/uncomfortable, very upright and not bending her knees until the latter part of the program, when she relaxed and did what she _knows_ she can do. Unfortunately, by then it was too late to score as high as she needed to.

Also, though I actually liked the earlier version of the ABBA program much better, I do think this version is more accessible (though a lot less rich). But still, if she had been less tense and skated it well, then had the same pickup/change of tempo and energy for the faster parts, I think it could be a successful program for her, and could have led to a good finish for her last night had she skated it well throughout.

 

[alexocfp]

I really like Amber but this whole line of thinking seems really odd to me.

Do you honestly think Amber Glenn holds anywhere near enough promise/potential to suggest that the USFS would choose to send her to worlds this year even if they believed another skater had a better chance of helping to secure the US 3 Oly spots (with all of the exposure, revenue etc. that each female representative at the OGs brings the sport in the way of fresh interest/new talent alone), simply so that what? So that Amber Glenn, having had the experience of skated in this year’s worlds, *might* do better than she would have otherwise at a future worlds?

I can’t imagine the Fed making that kind of call if the skater in question was a Shcherbakova doppelgänger talent/competitive track-record-wise.

Sometimes you lose the battle to win the war.

We don’t know what promise Amber has because she hasn’t gotten the chance to prove it. That’s why you give her that chance.

Bell already didn’t come through when it mattered. So, since you are rolling dice, might as well roll them with someone whose ceiling hasn’t been already established.

And if the third spot is going to be given based on politics and reputation and favorites, rather than results, the US skating fed doesn’t deserve that 3rd spot anyway.

 

[moonvine]

If someone bombs their trials to the extent of your hypothetical, and still gets chosen, it’s the absolute definition of being picked on reputation.

Many a sports have fallen into the trap of giving playing time to people past their expiration date.

Not choosing Bell is actually better for her. It will force her to reevaluate her game and either improve to overtake her competitors or not.

Sports is, and should always remain, a meritocracy. People in charge should always have a what have you done for me lately mentality. It’s the only way you go forward, improve and remain competitive.

No room for sentimentality.

Oh.my.God. Picking Simone Biles for the Olympic Team would not be sentimental. Not picking her would be insane. If Nathan fell on every jump he attempted at this competition and US Fed did not pick him for Worlds that would be CRAZY. And USA Gymnastics World and Olympic results for the past 20 years say you’re wrong.

 

[moonvine]

I just have to come back and say that I am gutted for Mariah. She just looked tense/uncomfortable, very upright and not bending her knees until the latter part of the program, when she relaxed and did what she _knows_ she can do. Unfortunately, by then it was too late to score as high as she needed to.

Also, though I actually liked the earlier version of the ABBA program much better, I do think this version is more accessible (though a lot less rich). But still, if she had been less tense and skated it well, then had the same pickup/change of tempo and energy for the faster parts, I think it could be a successful program for her, and could have led to a good finish for her last night had she skated it well throughout.

Who choreographed her ABBA program?

 

[alexocfp]

Oh.my.God. Picking Simone Biles for the Olympic Team would not be sentimental. Not picking her would be insane. If Nathan fell on every jump he attempted at this competition and US Fed did not pick him for Worlds that would be CRAZY. And USA Gymnastics World and Olympic results for the past 20 years say you’re wrong.

Again, it would absolutely be if she fell 12 times in trials as you mentioned. Obviously I’m using your hypothetical. You shouldn’t be allowed to represent your country if you aren’t a medalist in your national championship that year

Also the same if Chen fell on every jump and finished 5th in the championships.

In a perfect world, the spots will just go automatically to to people that place 1-2 or 1-2-3.

Take selection away from the politics and backroom deals.

These back room deals don’t help the sport in the long run.

Full disclosure too:
Don’t watch any figure skating besides the single ladies so I have no emotional attachment vis a vis the politics and favoritism with the men, pair, or ice dance selection

I couldn’t care less about gymnastics, don’t follow it, don’t care.

 

[ManyCairns]

Who choreographed her ABBA program?

Shae-Lynn, wasn't it?

 

[alexocfp]

Glenn is actually giving me Kaori Sakamoto vibes. A strong jumper who is rough around the edges but still lots of potential. You could see she was determined in that FS. I think sending her to Worlds over Mariah might be a a fairer decision - but it’s unlikely international judges will give Glenn that kind of PCS. But if Mariah has a FS like she did here, then 3 spots is likely gone. I feel like they might actually send Karen as the second spot. They can justify sending Bell over Glenn but Chen has more clout and showed up to these Nationals. Her landings might get destroyed by international tech panels though so that’s a consideration too. Almost all the skaters were given leniency in some form here (see: Tennell’s UR in the SP).

Side note: I think Amber Glenn is the first openly LGBT woman to win a senior medal at Nationals, if I’m not mistaken?

Sakamoto and Glenn are both very likable, aren’t they?

The current USA champ has talent of course, but she doesn’t stir any emotions with me like Kaori or Glenn do.

 

[Ross74]

Who choreographed her ABBA program?

According to the Virtual Program , Bell's choreographers are Adam Rippon, Shae-Lynn Bourne, and Molly Oberstar, listed in that order.