2021 Worlds: Men's' Free Skate

[Ic3Rabbit]

I don't think there was any issue this time that it fit his body. It was the right size. Just didn't do much for his program.

I have seen in person but not recently. I do not think though his SS not jumps or artistry is that of say Buttle,Lambiel, Chan, Hanyu. I am not against Nathan I think he seems like a real nice guy and would be fun to hang and he is a competitior like no other. Hisjumps are just amazing but there is more to skating or even skating fast. To be fair then Elvis Stojko was way undermarked during his day. I am not saying he has to have paltry pcs but this is just so ridiculous ; it is bad enough, not Nathan's fault of course, that the quads erase any pc advantage just like that.

The man has the edges, the quality. He's done varied styles of music with very intricate choreography and has crushed it every single time. So perhaps you need to go see him skate again soon. I'll take him over Hanyu and Buttle any day.


ETA: Also, if you don't want to see just jumps, don't go see the top ladies.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Missed the live feed and just watched and so impressed. So many impressive skates.


Shoma— i feel like he took out a lot of the choreography for his FS. I thought this was a brilliant program earlier in the season when he had less tech content. But brave and strong skate regardless. He looks so well trained.
I’m still in love with the way the SP and FS speak to each other….wish more skaters would do that and think about them as two acts of a single performance.



Yuma—so much potential. He’s a jumping bean so let’s see how he develops through the next olympic cycle. I feel as though he beat out stronger skates but brain dead and guess its fair ?


Koyiada—very balletic, amazing line, great talent. Would have had him medal.



Yuzu—this FS does him no favors. The music isn’t one that he or an audience really seems to get behind and doesn’t show off that he is actually a very expensive skater. He wasn’t his best today but let’s cut him some slack. He didn’t have a coach all year and nobody can be perfect every day (even Nathan).

Keegan--I really loved this program. Can't remember when I enjoyed his skating so much. Felt like that was a real moment for him.


Chen—the GOAT. What else can we say? Hope he keeps this free skate for the olympics, its kinda perfect although I know some of you disagree.


Jason—love love love. His face after the free skate made my week. He did a gorgeous quad and showed two of the best programs i’ve seen in a LONG time. bravo.

 

[sworddance21]

The man has the edges, the quality. He's done varied styles of music with very intricate choreography and has crushed it every single time. So perhaps you need to go see him skate again soon. I'll take him over Hanyu and Buttle any day.


ETA: Also, if you don't want to see just jumps, don't go see the top ladies.

Yes, exactly. I mean, I'm unabashedly a fan of Jason/Kolyada/Shoma because that style speaks to me. I'm not going to get into PCS numbers, because I just don't understand them well, other than to say that I find it hard to believe Nathan is THAT much better than the more classical skaters. However I think it is completely wrong to say that Nathan doesn't have skating skills simply because he has a different style. IMHO he has grown into quite the artist. It's different, but it works for him. It's a little bit like saying hip hop dancers are terrible dancers because they don't look like ballet dancers. They are different. Now - there ARE some skaters who truly skate jump to jump and don't have edge quality and connection to choreography, but Nathan is not one of the. (And as you say - I think some of the little jumping bean girls are.)

 

[sworddance21]

So - I'm going back and watching the early groups that I wasn't able to watch this morning. I actually really like Boyang Jin's program, and I liked his short, too. He seems to really be working on choreo and transitions and skating skills. I wonder, too, with his addition of the TCC coaches if he might be re-working his jumping technique. It took Evgenia and Jason a while to adjust to that. Interesting to see where this takes Jin.

 

[Mathman]

Johnny Weir said commentationg that this is the best Nathan Chen has ever skated. Also, that he says that every time Nathan skates -- he just keeps getting better and better.

I have to agree. This was magnificent, and Nathan presented it like it was no more difficult (for him) tyhan falling off a log.

 

[s_parks]

So - I'm going back and watching the early groups that I wasn't able to watch this morning. I actually really like Boyang Jin's program, and I liked his short, too. He seems to really be working on choreo and transitions and skating skills. I wonder, too, with his addition of the TCC coaches if he might be re-working his jumping technique. It took Evgenia and Jason a while to adjust to that. Interesting to see where this takes Jin.

I'm not sure if they're going to touch his jumps? I mean, he has textbook technique. He might not be landing them consistently with possibly more focus on the actual skating aspect like you mentioned, with the choreography/TR/SS.

 

[Olympic]

Well I saw Nathan's skate. It was really good technically and his programs aren't terrible and his skating isn't terrible but not worth 96. This is really a tragedy and puts skating into disrepute. Granted no one knew what the Japanese boys were going to do but the 96 is really an insult to Kolyada, Brown and Messing. You don't have to skate to classical music and wear a puffy shirt but come on. This is a competition not let's give gifts with a pretty bow to someone for doing hard jumps well. I love that Messing, Brown, Hanyu, Kolyada show you can do different styles and yet the good skating skills still shine and great interpretation.

Nathan has all the resources in the world including the over hyped Vera Wang - He doesn't have to look like a blinged out Star Spangled Banner with more sparkle than a pre teen girl bedroom but come on. Ditto for Keegans sp shirt and some others.

No. This time he skated outside of himself. It is something that I felt. There was more intricacy than normal and he 'filled' the rink more than normal, and I think if you asked Kolyada, Brown and Messing, I don't think any of them would've felt 'insulted' by Chen's PCS.

Generally, Nathan is quite understated, so his movements don't hit you in the face

 

[Ella339]

I think you're overanalyzing.

Not quite:

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translate.google.com

"Hanyu at the World Cup skated a free program with an asthma attack and won bronze"

Anyone who knows him could see that something was majorly off...

 

[Janice4th]

I kind of liked it. I think it fit.

I think it looks boring just because his costumes in general are all pretty lowkey so they tend to blend together.

He is a minimalist. Lol.

 

[Janice4th]

Not quite:

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translate.google.com

"Hanyu at the World Cup skated a free program with an asthma attack and won bronze"

Anyone who knows him could see that something was majorly off...

Is it just me, or does it seem like whenever Hanyu loses an excuse comes out after the fact? He looked like he just had a bad day. Probably nerves. If was having a bad asthma attack, he would have been gasping for air.

 

[Skatefan15]

In what universe should Hanyu even be 90+ with that performance. That deserves below 85. The hubris! That's almost as bad as 2016 Worlds LP. When Hanyu bombs he bombs hard. Chen is quite reasonably scored IMO. I'd give him 93-95 in PCS but it doesn't matter in the end because he killed it in the TES department. They could easily have given him 10's like Fernandez or Hanyu when they do perfect programs but despite being defending WC twice and sweeping all tournaments since last Olympics he still hasn't received PCS scores like those 2.

I disagree. Nathan was very overscored in PCS. Especially for SS...there’s no way he should get as high of a score as he did. I think Yuzu’s PCS score is actually quite fair. I just have a problem with Nathan more so being far ahead of Jason, Mikhail, and Keegan. Just because you land hard jumps doesn’t mean you have good (or rather great) PCS. He was not 6 points better than Jason, Mikhail, and Keegan (imo). And also, after looking at the judges scores... I noticed that some did give Nathan a 10 in some components (which how?! Lol). The reason he doesn’t get all 10s like Yuzu and Javi with a “perfect” performance is because he doesn’t deserve all 10s (even though the judges always reach him on the other end, even they know he doesn’t deserve all 10s).

Overall, my point is just score the PCS fairly for Nathan because he obviously killed it in the technical. He would’ve still won, just a little more fairly in the component area. This was not Yuzu’s best day by any means, but when clean that program should be 97+ in PCS. I also don’t understand how Jason was just 90. I’m not a big fan of his free skate but he skates it so well that I end up liking it anyway... same with Keegan and Mikhail (although I do like Mikhail’s).

 

[Skatefan15]

Not quite:

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translate.google.com

"Hanyu at the World Cup skated a free program with an asthma attack and won bronze"

Anyone who knows him could see that something was majorly off...

Wow, that’s extremely unfortunate (I don’t think he’s had an asthma attack in a while— or at least at skating events in a while). I could tell something was off. Everyone can have a bad day, but there was just something in his eyes that was... really different (and his skin seemed pale).

Man, Yuzu has got to have some of the worst luck for a skater I’ve ever seen I hope he doesn’t go to WTT and just stays home and healthy.

 

[Olympic]

Even if you brought Nathan's PCS down by several points, he still would've won comfortably. I am not sure what all of this complaining is meant to accomplish. He's that good on both jump and non-jump elements.

I've watched like 4 different broadcasts of his LP. If you look at Nathan's movements in between elements, there is subtle music interpretation and he hits the notes of the music. He has proper extension, head lift, arm use. I think people see his face and costumes as 'blank' but he is a pretty quite guy which is the complete opposite personality-wise to Yuzu, but it is foolish to suggest he is mediocre. PCS encompasses different things.

I would say if you believe the PCS is inflated in comparison to others, hate the game, not the player. I've been saying that the ISU need to decouple PCS from TES for years, and should further decouple the individual categories of PCS. IOW, you can have great SS, but lack TR, interpretation, etc. Even if you did this, though, I think you would find that Nathan still wins .... I will finally say that after watching him so many times, there are times in the program where a quicker snap of the arm or more tension to the arm / leg would probably go far, maybe make believers out of a few detractors, as well as showing emotion (but you can't fake emotion. It's who you are).

Nathan actually reminds me of a male version of Tara Lipinski at her best: She was not quite the legendary 2nd mark skater of her teammate the Kween, but she was a firecracker who could get it done. Of course, Tara showed more emotion while skating. Maybe that helped.

 

[NaVi]

Quoting one of my old posts about how we should recognize the best quadless skater with the 2021 information inserted and bolded.

The last quadless men's world's medalist was Patrick Chan in 2010 which was the same year Evan Lysacek won the Olympic championships without a quad. We're entering an era where you probably need a 3A or quad to win the ladies gold medal and soon one of those will be needed for any medal at Worlds/Olympics.

There really should be a tech limit version of figure skating. With the limited versions being no quads for men and no quads or triple axels for ladies.

I think it'd be very interesting if during the world championships there would be a little concurrent subcompetition for the tech limit champion. The top team or teams should be able to submit a 4th skater to participate in the subcompetition. It could make the earlier flight of skaters more interesting to watch.

So it's interesting to look back at the men and who would win such a competition.
2021 - #14 Han Yan | Brown Cha Vasiljevs did underrotated quads.
2019 - #23 Julian Zhi Jie Yee | Matteo Rizzo and Jason Brown might have lowered their tech content to contend for the subcompetition though... especially if Brown was given a 4th US spot.
2018 - #6 Deniss Vasiljevs | Jason Brown skipped worlds... but if there had been a 4th spot available for the competition then he probably would have showed up. Honorable mention to Misha Ge who had a good performance here too.
2017 - #12 Misha Ge | Jason Brown did a quad but would he have if there was a quadless subcompetition and he could have been the 4th guy? Deniss Vasiljevs was #14
2016 - #14 Deniss Vasiljevs | He would have edged out #15 Misha Ge and #16 Jork Hendrickx... but #6 Adam Rippon could have easily took his quad out which he did at the Olympics especially if he had been given a special 4th spot.
2015 - #4 Jason Brown | #6 Misha Ge #8 Adam Rippon #11 Joshua Farris did a quad but he was not really comfortable with it
2014 - #7 Han Yan | #12 Nam Nguyen #13 Ivan Righini ... Jeremy Abbott was #5 and I could see him competing in this type of format... but the US only had 2 spots that year.
2013 - #11 Peter Liebers | Perhaps someone above him would have lowered their tech content to compete
2012 - #10 Samuel Contesti | #13 Adam Rippon had a downgraded 4S... he could have easily took it out if the opportunity to win a tech limited subcompetition was there... but US only had 2 spots that year.
2011 - #7 Florent Amodio | #11 Ross Miner


Doing this might help extend careers and reduce some from pursuing quads they can't really do. And doing this would give more recognition to the more artistically inclined skaters while still keeping them to a technical standard.

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/sp-and-fs-replaced-by-technical-and-artistic-programs.82131/post-2477989

 

[jenaj]

I disagree. Nathan was very overscored in PCS. Especially for SS...there’s no way he should get as high of a score as he did. I think Yuzu’s PCS score is actually quite fair. I just have a problem with Nathan more so being far ahead of Jason, Mikhail, and Keegan. Just because you land hard jumps doesn’t mean you have good (or rather great) PCS. He was not 6 points better than Jason, Mikhail, and Keegan (imo). And also, after looking at the judges scores... I noticed that some did give Nathan a 10 in some components (which how?! Lol). The reason he doesn’t get all 10s like Yuzu and Javi with a “perfect” performance is because he doesn’t deserve all 10s (even though the judges always reach him on the other end, even they know he doesn’t deserve all 10s).

Overall, my point is just score the PCS fairly for Nathan because he obviously killed it in the technical. He would’ve still won, just a little more fairly in the component area. This was not Yuzu’s best day by any means, but when clean that program should be 97+ in PCS. I also don’t understand how Jason was just 90. I’m not a big fan of his free skate but he skates it so well that I end up liking it anyway... same with Keegan and Mikhail (although I do like Mikhail’s).

Since Nathan won the free skate by about 30 points, he could have gotten a 77 in PCS and still would have won overall (not that such a low score would be deserving). There is really no point in quibbling over a point or two or three in PCS. When someone skates a perfect and extremely difficult program like Nathan did, their PCS is going to be high. It's a lot easier for Jason Brown, for instance, to be constantly interpreting and adding transitions when he is not doing five quads. (For the record, I think Jason was underscored in PCS.) As you note, Hanyu skating perfect with four quads would probably get 10's. There really should be no dispute that Nathan does perform well and does interpret the music well. Lyricism isn't the only means of achieving high performance and interpretation. And he does what he does while executing the highest level of difficulty ever seen. I think his PCS is correct for that performance.

 

[el henry]

Since Nathan won the free skate by about 30 points, he could have gotten a 70 in PCS and still would have won. There is really no point in quibbling over a point or two or three in PCS. When someone skates a perfect and extremely difficult program like Nathan did, their PCS is going to be high. It's a lot easier for Jason Brown, for instance, to be constantly interpreting and adding transitions when he is not doing five quads. As you note, Hanyu skating perfect with four quads would probably get 10's. There really should be no dispute that Nathan does perform well and does interpret the music well. Lyricism isn't the only means of achieving high performance and interpretation. And he does what he does while executing the highest level of difficulty ever seen. I think his PCS is correct for that performance.

But isn't that the point of PCS?

Why should someone get higher PCS because doing a program with five quads is "harder"? Assuming arguendo I agreed it was "harder", I'm afraid that the argument makes no sense to me. (ETA: and I am not saying it is not an accomplishment that should not be rewarded. It is. and it is. Through BV and GOE)

The skater who does five quads gets rewarded enormously for doing five quads, there should not be, and oh, you get an additional bonus on PCS for that in addition to your reward for the jumps.

Not to mention what Jason does is athletically difficult and hard, but that's another issue.

 

[Skatesocs]

I actually really like Boyang Jin's program, and I liked his short, too. He seems to really be working on choreo and transitions and skating skills.

Yes. I was pleased to note this LP at Cup of China (not as big of a fan of the short, but the performance improvement is still noted), and I am happy it's being recognized by others. The range of movement from the 3Lz+3T till the end and the logic to the step sequence with the music is intriguing, and I'm glad he did what he did with it. It seemed personal. Maybe he didn't skate well - but the efforts are noted, and hopefully will be accounted for next season.

Well, since I am posting in the thread, I'd also like to note Aymoz's LP: it was my favorite last season, and it's still the best one around, in my book. THAT is what deserves interpretation scores in the 9s. It is sad he likely won't keep it next season.

 

[jenaj]

But isn't that the point of PCS?

Why should someone get higher PCS because doing a program with five quads is "harder"? Assuming arguendo I agreed it was "harder", I'm afraid that the argument makes no sense to me. (ETA: and I am not saying it is not an accomplishment that should not be rewarded. It is. and it is. Through BV and GOE)

The skater who does five quads gets rewarded enormously for doing five quads, there should not be, and oh, you get an additional bonus on PCS for that in addition to your reward for the jumps.

Not to mention what Jason does is athletically difficult and hard, but that's another issue.

Jason was egregiously underscored in PCS. He should have gotten high 9s. That is the real problem with PCS scoring.

 

[Skater Boy]

The man has the edges, the quality. He's done varied styles of music with very intricate choreography and has crushed it every single time. So perhaps you need to go see him skate again soon. I'll take him over Hanyu and Buttle any day.


ETA: Also, if you don't want to see just jumps, don't go see the top ladies.

Well all skaters have edges but I guess I disagree about the quality level. And it doesnt really matter I guess because with his jumps he still will win. But his scores make me rethink some of past skaters who were seen as just jumpers. I know it is hard to compare the past even Lambiel and Buttle. Nathan is the best jumper/technician so far probably every. He is a monster, a machine. i actually like him andhis skating I just don't think h is pcs are so deserved but I amnot the judge I am just saying what I see. You compare the edging, cleanness,, depth he is not Brown or Chan.

 

[Skater Boy]

Jason was egregiously underscored in PCS. He should have gotten high 9s. That is the real problem with PCS scoring.

I think Jason, Mikael, Keegan all could or should get higher pcs and not that Chen is bad is just way too high/generous. Anyways giving jason et al doesn't seem to deal with the inherent problem. Even if you gave these men say five or more points - essentially one quad erases that. So does the ISU want that much powergiventotech elements? Maybe they do. I do agree a clean program artistically does deseve something but pc wise there is more than a clean program. This aways seems to become an argument here about favourite skaters. In this case it was clear who deserved to win regardless of pcs. There is a lovely purity of skating from Brown and Kolyada and some beautiful skating from Messing who may not be traditional classical but his edging is quite wonderful and it shows up in his spins and such.