2023 World Team Trophy - General Info | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2023 World Team Trophy - General Info

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
I just saw the start times, and they are bad even for those of us on Pacific time. For Worlds, I could watch one event in the evening and go to bed around midnight. For WTT, that will only be possible for one event, the pairs free. All other events start at midnight or so.

The good news is that I got the times from the ISU youtube channel, so it looks like it is not geo-blocked in Canada.

Interestingly, videos from Worlds, which weren't available at the time, seem to be available on ISU youtube now. Perhaps CBC did a time-limited block.
Yeah, us left coasters here had some tough decisions..but I am gonna chose sleep and stay off social media till I watch....dont know if Peacock will have 24 hour replays like Worlds but I hope they do so I dont have to listen to something who is extreamely fond of the sound of their own voice. Commentators, please leave your yak at home....

 

sworddance21

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
I stink at math and at reading a 24 hour clock. (Dang American, here!). If I'm figuring correctly, the dancers start at 2:50 AM, the women will begin around 4:15 AM and the men at about 6:25AM Thursday morning NYC/East Coast time. Then the pairs go at 3AM Friday? GAH - math.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
I stink at math and at reading a 24 hour clock. (Dang American, here!). If I'm figuring correctly, the dancers start at 2:50 AM, the women will begin around 4:15 AM and the men at about 6:25AM Thursday morning NYC/East Coast time. Then the pairs go at 3AM Friday? GAH - math.

In the WTT subthreads for each event, the starting time is given for many different time zone — no math needed! So helpful!
 

Cutting the ice

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Stupid question (because I probably already know the answer but hoping I am wrong). Why in the WTT is there only one entry per country for Pairs and Ice Dance and two for Women's and Men's Singles? Please don't tell me it's because Japan wants it that way and they control the $$. The bias against the more well-rounded skating countries is uncomfortable for an ISU event. IMO make it more like the Olympic team event - either with one entry per discipline or two entries (the latter is less strategic and more fun).
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
Stupid question (because I probably already know the answer but hoping I am wrong). Why in the WTT is there only one entry per country for Pairs and Ice Dance and two for Women's and Men's Singles? Please don't tell me it's because Japan wants it that way and they control the $$. The bias against the more well-rounded skating countries is uncomfortable for an ISU event. IMO make it more like the Olympic team event - either with one entry per discipline or two entries (the latter is less strategic and more fun).
Okay, I won't tell you what you said not to tell you, but that's why. 💯
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Stupid question (because I probably already know the answer but hoping I am wrong). Why in the WTT is there only one entry per country for Pairs and Ice Dance and two for Women's and Men's Singles? Please don't tell me it's because Japan wants it that way and they control the $$. The bias against the more well-rounded skating countries is uncomfortable for an ISU event. IMO make it more like the Olympic team event - either with one entry per discipline or two entries (the latter is less strategic and more fun).

When the ISU puts up the money that the Japanese sponsors have put up to sponsor this event, then the ISU can establish the rules. Otherwise these have been the rules for what, 25 years now, and I can't see them changing.

Any entity or any person who wants to put up the prize money these skaters are earning to participate in this event, can set up their own event with their own rules.

Who wants to be first to raise the cash? :)
 

yesterday

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Doubling pairs and ID would mean there's 4 skaters more per team. 4*6 -> 24 additional skaters.
You have to host them and pay them and you'd have more groups, more practice slots etc.
I guess this would blow up the WTT as a whole and it's not designed like this.

Similar to GP(F) where also discussions about more skaters end in the problem of needing more groups, resurfacings etc.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Doubling pairs and ID would mean there's 4 skaters more per team. 4*6 -> 24 additional skaters.
You have to host them and pay them and you'd have more groups, more practice slots etc.
I guess this would blow up the WTT as a whole and it's not designed like this.

Similar to GP(F) where also discussions about more skaters end in the problem of needing more groups, resurfacings etc.
Here are my suggestions

1) cut down to one entry per discipline.. even cheaper... but fairer to countries not as deep in singles

2) or give as much weight to dance and pairs in terms of points : 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 for instance...
 

yesterday

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2022
1) cut down to one entry per discipline.. even cheaper... but fairer to countries not as deep in singles
I doubt there will ever be more than the 6 spots, so a "fairer" might never be "needed".
As long as they don't change the format itself, 2) would be an option
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I doubt there will ever be more than the 6 spots, so a "fairer" might never be "needed".
As long as they don't change the format itself, 2) would be an option
Fairer is needed.... not all countries have the same depth in the same disciplines...
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Stupid question (because I probably already know the answer but hoping I am wrong). Why in the WTT is there only one entry per country for Pairs and Ice Dance and two for Women's and Men's Singles? Please don't tell me it's because Japan wants it that way and they control the $$. The bias against the more well-rounded skating countries is uncomfortable for an ISU event. IMO make it more like the Olympic team event - either with one entry per discipline or two entries (the latter is less strategic and more fun).

Here's where you've gone wrong in your thinking. You believe that this is a serious event, and therefore the setup should approximate what you'd expect to see in a real competition.

The most charitable description is that it's a year-end celebration for the chosen athletes and the very loyal Japanese skating fans. Nice paycheck for the skaters and a gala-on-steroids atmosphere for the fans.

Take it for what it is. Don't overthink it. Strategize ways to maximize your enjoyment - my strategy is to watch it on delay, and fast forward through the aspects I do not enjoy.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
When the ISU puts up the money that the Japanese sponsors have put up to sponsor this event, then the ISU can establish the rules. Otherwise these have been the rules for what, 25 years now, and I can't see them changing.

Any entity or any person who wants to put up the prize money these skaters are earning to participate in this event, can set up their own event with their own rules.

Who wants to be first to raise the cash? :)
Japan may put the money... but skaters can get season's best .... and that has an impact on ISU competitions....
 

PaulE

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Country
United-States
Why in the WTT is there only one entry per country for Pairs and Ice Dance and two for Women's and Men's Singles?
I don't know whether the number of warm-up groups has anything to do with it. But, from a practical standpoint, there will be only 2 warm-up groups in each discipline and no reason to get @CellarDweller out with the Zamboni in the middle of any discipline.
:biggrin:
 

yesterday

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Canada is in. No depth in singles. Much depth in pairs and dance...
You call this no depth? Look at other feds :shrug: Canada is still one of the big 5 (?) and will always qualify and find enough athletes (or the other way round).

eta: maybe we're leaning into the wrong direction now as well. As I understood it, the question was whether to invite even more athletes. Which would exclude even more (smaller) countries?
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
You call this no depth? Look at other feds :shrug: Canada is still one of the big 5 (?) and will always qualify and find enough athletes (or the other way round).

eta: maybe we're leaning into the wrong direction now as well. As I understood it, the question was whether to invite even more athletes. Which would exclude even more (smaller) countries?
my suggestion is to make it even across the disciplines, which favours smaller country... not many countries have more than one athlete/ skater per discipline able to score points to qualify... You can look at the qualifying scores... some countries didn't have a second woman or man earning points on the GP circuit or during ISU championships... If anything, all Europeans countries are disadvantaged by the current format because of the quota at Euros... versus the 3 entries allowed at 4CC.

So either, cut down singles to 1 entry just like pairs and dance, or at least, have the pairs and dance teams weigh the same in the scoring...

BTW, I dislike the format at Olympics as well... Yes, only one entry per discipline (not counting subs) but the SP is worth SO MUCH more... as a skater can finish last in the LP and still earn 6 points... so only 4 points away from the top, while in the SP they would earn 1 point, which is a 9 point differential.

Anyway, the ISU for the Olympics and the WTT organizers do not do the same maths as I do. Creative mathematics is nothing new in figure skating.
 
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