Chan voices his opinion in quad quarrel

[Panpie]

If you read the actual quotes from Patrick and the part that represents the columnist's views instead, it is pretty clear that it is Rosie Dimanno who is ranting, not Patrick.

I will save everyone the trouble of posting on this thread. I will do it for you.

Next post: Patrick is a bad boy.

Next post after that: Stop hating on Patrick

repeat.

Mathman: I read the entire article. In it, Patrick takes swipes at his rivals and claims three quads in the long program diminishes the quality of skating, among other things. I really have to wonder if he's even seen Hanyu's programs, let alone Fernandez's or Uno's. I'm pretty much the sort of person who says, "Let the chips fall where they may.". Now, I'm really hoping that Patrick is off the podium at Worlds. I'm just so sick of him.

 

[Panpie]

I think he manages that all by himself...you really think the Canadian press puts those words in his mouth? Over & over again? It's one thing when you have a cocky teenager saying dumb things, but he's 25 years old for crying out loud, he KNOWS his words will be quoted and he still doesn't think before he speaks, or else he just doesn't care. So while he's entitled to run his mouth & say what he wants, I don't feel sorry for him at all.

Amen. Patrick needs no help from the press to look arrogant and petty. Ugh. I need to stay off this thread.

 

[Panpie]

I can. Patrick cannot accept that Yuzuru has surpassed him.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Longer qoute


“This is why I’m really glad I’m not panicking over where I’m sitting internationally (right now),” said Chan on Sunday at the Scotiabank Centre, site of the Canadian championships. “It’s like, ‘Go ahead guys. Go for it.’ Yuzu and Javy can fight it out and I’d like to just sit back and stay with my strategy and my plan and we’ll see how those guys will unfold. There’s always injuries that can happen …. They’re going to hit a plateau. They’re going to have to. And maybe Yuzu will add a fourth quad (to his long program), and then after that, that’s it. But with adding that fourth quad, he’s upping the risk factor, the reward-risk factor becomes much larger. So let them keep pushing each other and I’ll just sit back and enjoy the show from afar.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/24/chan-is-right-where-he-wants-to-be


Really great attitude from him.... :sarcasm:

Dafuq :roll9:

At least now Yuzu can add a 4th quad. Just after Barcelona, he was maxed out now already. We are making progress.

 

[amanuenssi]

we don't know anything about his upbringing. The point is that what's considered disrespectful of a competitor isn't the same every where in the world.

a lot of star athletes don't hold themselves to your standard of being a role model. They talk up and down their competition plenty and people generally don't think less of them. That doesn't make them disrespectful. They are peers among one another and are very entitled to have opinions about one another's abilities.

thank you.

I must say, it is not just my standard of star athletes being a role model four younger athlets or fans. In my country, finland, star athletes are automatically considered as role models for juniors and fans. It is not a single athlete's personal opinion, if he wants to be a role model or not - he/she just is. And if they behave disrespectfully or recklessly, the media will report it publicly and the sponsors and the national unions of diffrent sports can decrease or take totally away their financial support. And to an international-level athlete, who gives a rude statement, even the finnish minister of sports can give a disapproving remark - as once have happend. In finland as a sportsman with a bad reputation, can't have a prosperous future as an athlete. But then on the contrary: If you happens to become a finnish olympic gold medalist, your home town will straightaway donate you a building site and build you a brand new house on it! So if the country is demanding you role modelling, good behaviour and good results - it is also rewarding you owerwhelmingly.

 

[Panpie]

I always thought Patrick had pretty good relationships with lots of the other skaters too. And after TEB 2013 a friend and I briefly had a run-in with a group of skaters - without them realizing we were skating fans - and Patrick was polite and friendly.

But that doesn't mean a generally nice person might not have pretty bad habits, and it's not as if the reporters were forcing him to say that stuff (although they're probably really waiting for it). Every time he says stuff like this about his competitors I'm just like: I have grown really fond of that smily these days

Well, I think most people are capable of being civil toward people they have to work with. I'm sure other skaters have at least a surface friendliness toward Patrick because he travels with them to shows; they probably stay in the same hotels at competitions, etc. I'm sure Patrick is capable of being nice to fans and strangers. Who knows, however, whether Patrick is actually close friends with any of his rivals? There's probably a professional, surface friendliness toward him but not much beyond that. I've certainly been in work situations where I had to be civil with people I could not stand. Sometimes, we even laughed and joked with each other. That didn't change how we felt about each other, however.

 

[MaxSwagg]

For some reason, it seems he has this dislike for Yuzu, even though Yuzu shows nothing but respect and admiration for him. Patrick always seems to single him out specifically. It's a bad move... :roll5: He needs to learn how to be nice to the other players!

 

[Sydney Rose]

Patrick cannot accept that Yuzuru has surpassed him.

Not only can he not accept it, it seems to have sent him over the edge.

It's one thing to have fantasies about your competitors being taken out by injury--we all have "bad thoughts" occasionally--but to publicly voice them and to actually NAME those competitors? Saying he will "sit back and enjoy the show" as they hopefully self-destruct?

Very disturbing.

 

[Rissa]

With everyone else clean, if Patrick skates relatively clean with 2 quads and even only one 3A, judges will probably put him 1st or 2nd.

That would be 3 quads vs. Javi and Hanyu's 5 across both programs (Javi has reportedly added a quad to his SP). Given that both Javi and Hanyu are getting PCS just as high as Patrick or almost as high and as high GOE if not higher, it's very unlikely judges would place 1st or 2nd if they all skated clean. All the top going clean means Patrick in the bronze position, and there's Denis Ten to consider as well for the not-exactly clean results.

 

[Pamigena]

I feel sorry for Patrick. It seems like the Canadian press is on a lifetime mission to make him look like a fool.

All he had to say was that he thinks the trend towards quad, quad, quad at the expense of other aspects of performance is not doing figure skating any favors. If asked about his rivals, he can just say that there is incredibly tough competition out there, but he plans to stick to his own path to the top. This season, that means working in a second quad toe and a second triple Axel while not neglecting footwork, blade skills and presentation.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for him because he's not exactly some blameless victim. If he's quoted, then those are his own words after all. And still people go out of their way to explain to us what he really meant when he said that. Well, if that's what he wanted to say, then he should have just said that. If people on the forum always find ways to rephrase his words, then there apparently is a more diplomatic way to say the things he supposedly wants to say. If he's not capable of phrasing things differently (I'm not even throwing shade. Some people are just not good with words, it just happens) then he can either keep it shut, or he can hire someone who teaches him how to talk in a way that he doesn't always come across as downright arrogant and offensive. But if "dead honest" means that he simply doesn't care and has therefore decided against diplomacy and common courtesy, then I don't know why anybody should feel sorry for him. He's not some teenager who's had his first brush with the big bad media people. If he doesn't know better by now, then I'll just assume that he's doing this on purpose, and I don't see why we should throw him a pity party.

 

[daphenaxa]

That would be 3 quads vs. Javi and Hanyu's 5 across both programs (Javi has reportedly added a quad to his SP). Given that both Javi and Hanyu are getting PCS just as high as Patrick or almost as high and as high GOE if not higher, it's very unlikely judges would place 1st or 2nd if they all skated clean. All the top going clean means Patrick in the bronze position, and there's Denis Ten to consider as well for the not-exactly clean results.

Well I don't know. Patrick has skated nowhere near clean this season and his PCS are already incredibly high. If he goes clean they will rise even more. As for tech yeah he is below Javi and Yuzu. But look how he was marked in the GPF. He beat Shoma Uno in the free who had 1 more 3A and 1 more quad (and in the second half!) than him. And it is not like Shoma is Boyang Jin. His skating skills and interpretation and everything else in his program are also very impressive.
If he has 2 quads and goes clean, Patrick will be favoured. Maybe not over Yuzuru (and still I am not overconfident about that) but over everyone else yeah.

 

[shyne]

Well I don't know. Patrick has skated nowhere near clean this season and his PCS are already incredibly high. If he goes clean they will rise even more. As for tech yeah he is below Javi and Yuzu. But look how he was marked in the GPF. He beat Shoma Uno in the free who had 1 more 3A and 1 more quad (and in the second half!) than him. And it is not like Shoma is Boyang Jin. His skating skills and interpretation and everything else in his program are also very impressive.
If he has 2 quads and goes clean, Patrick will be favoured. Maybe not over Yuzuru (and still I am not overconfident about that) but over everyone else yeah.

There's a cap to PCS.
Even if he got a perfect PCS (100 in the FS and 50 in the SP). He does not have the technical difficulties to upset a perfect Yuzu and Javier.

 

[Poice]

Well I don't know. Patrick has skated nowhere near clean this season and his PCS are already incredibly high. If he goes clean they will rise even more. As for tech yeah he is below Javi and Yuzu. But look how he was marked in the GPF. He beat Shoma Uno in the free who had 1 more 3A and 1 more quad (and in the second half!) than him. And it is not like Shoma is Boyang Jin. His skating skills and interpretation and everything else in his program are also very impressive.
If he has 2 quads and goes clean, Patrick will be favoured. Maybe not over Yuzuru (and still I am not overconfident about that) but over everyone else yeah.

But you can only get 100 PCS at the most and Chan is getting what? 96-97? But for TES sky is a limit....For now Chan can't compete with clean Hanyu.

 

[daphenaxa]

There's a cap to PCS.
Even if he got a perfect PCS (100 in the FS and 50 in the SP). He does not have the technical difficulties to upset a perfect Yuzu and Javier.

But you can only get 100 PCS at the most and Chan is getting what? 96-97? But for TES sky is a limit....For now Chan can't compete with clean Hanyu.

Yeah ok, I agree if we are talking the three of them skate clean but like "clean" meaning "perfect" with +2/3 GOE on everything and level 4 on non jump elements.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Well I don't know. Patrick has skated nowhere near clean this season and his PCS are already incredibly high. If he goes clean they will rise even more. As for tech yeah he is below Javi and Yuzu. But look how he was marked in the GPF. He beat Shoma Uno in the free who had 1 more 3A and 1 more quad (and in the second half!) than him. And it is not like Shoma is Boyang Jin. His skating skills and interpretation and everything else in his program are also very impressive.
If he has 2 quads and goes clean, Patrick will be favoured. Maybe not over Yuzuru (and still I am not overconfident about that) but over everyone else yeah.

If you want some numbers: if Patrick with the upped content receives all +3's on every element and only 10's in PCS, his overall score will be 323+. About one point above Yuzu's NHK scores, about 7 below Yuzu's GPF scores. It's mathematically not possible for him to beat Yuzu's WR right now.

It's not as clear cut with Javi, but I think the 2nd quad in the SP is giving Javi the upper hand too. We'll have to wait and see for that though.

 

[dailytg20]

You know I don't even mind so much when Patrick or other athletes have a go at their competitors or the sport directly, especially if they have the evidence to back it up--it can be entertaining and raise the stakes for fans.

But Patrick's comments often come off as failed shade. His words may be blunt and opinionated but are they really honest?

For example, the quote in which he depicts himself as sitting back and letting Yuzuru and Javier duke it out over jumps is just plain...honey, please. No one is buying that. It's not part of some secret Olympic strategem. It just comes off as something you need to file in your "things to keep telling myself" folder, or better yet just delete it entirely and upgrade your self-awareness.

That is why I liked when he talked about pushing his technical game more. That felt like a step forward, something people have wanted to hear from him for years. This latest stream on the other hand deserves all the side-eye it is getting in my opinion.

Furthermore the notion that his competitors are mainly focused on their jumps is a pretty wonky mischaracterization of their progression over the past few years. You can plainly see their growth even without the jumps. Javier's SP this year felt like a huge leap in terms of his expression and style. Yuzuru used to be hunched over at the completion of his FS like he had just scaled Kilimanjaro, and now at the end of "Seimei" he looks like he mildly exerted himself reaching for a bag of tortilla chips on the high shelf at the grocery store.

 

[jeff goldblum]

"So let them keep pushing each other and I’ll just sit back and enjoy the show from afar.”

I think by afar he means way back in distant third or fourth or whatever place he gets at Worlds.

All kidding and snarky comments aside, I think Patrick is a fantastic skater. His 4T-3T when he hits it is honestly the best in the business, he has great edge work, great speed, he skates to and connects with the music, etc, etc. I just wish he would shut up. Or try something like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DshDgKom-f8

Best of both worlds: throw shade and be somewhat diplomatic. Of course in sport you have to be aware of what your competitors are doing; he needs to just focus on his own skating, but his repeated comments regarding Hanyu suggest he is thinking more about his competitors'. I also agree with other commenters who have pointed out that on the one hand he's saying, "I'm going to try and close the gap by increasing my technical difficulty" and then on the other hand essentially "the other skaters are doing much too difficult routines." And it wouldn't be the same if Hanyu or his camp made the same comments because he's already doing these multiple quad programs and incorporating great skating. It sounds more like Patrick complaining about his competitors surpassing him and him being left out. This is more surprising to me since I actually don't doubt his ability to skate the kind of routines Hanyu and Fernandez are doing!

The other funny thing is he's not pulling a Michelle Kwan and saying "Okay I see what my main competitors are doing technically and I know I physically can't do that so instead I am focusing on other aspects of my skating I can improve". (Note that this doesn't even have to be addition of new jumps, but just placing more difficulty in the second half, if we're still talking technically.). What I really mean is the component side of skating, but because PCS is this finite aspect that he's very nearly maxed out it essentially means he is the perfect skater in that regards, but nobody better exceed where he's already gone in the technical component.

Of course he may be 100% right. The skating quality may be diminished, in which cases the judges should note that and score accordingly. Skaters like Hanyu and Fernandez (of course not excluding Chan himself) may get injured from the increased technical risks. They might plateau and he might catch up. Of course, he could also be 100% wrong and he will just be left in the dust. The point is whether it's the technical components or the choreographic/artistic components he doesn't sound aggressive or competitive or wanting to really push his skating further (as I've said before) but rather like he's brought skating to this perfect spot and it should just stop right where it is.

If this is really a legitimate concern for him in a broader context than his own career then he should rally together coaches, fellow skaters, officials, etc and make an earnest petition to the ISU to change the scoring system, more strictly limit the number of quads allowed, etc. Someone else mentioned that there has been lots of scientific and medical study within professional dance to examine the effects of all the difficult maneuvers on the body so that everyone can know how to train better. If that's his motivation then good for him; he should go after that, but I feel like it's more self-serving.

That said, I hope he does more than just run his mouth come Worlds and puts out two perfect skates and that Hanyu and Fernandez do the same. It will be great to see where each ends up if they all skate their absolute best.

Sorry, iPhone rant again.

 

[Panpie]

This is more surprising to me since I actually don't doubt his ability to skate the kind of routines Hanyu and Fernandez are doing!

I do. I've never seen Patrick as the be-all-end-all of figure skating. I think his interpretive skills run the gamut from A to B. (Apologies to Dorothy Parker.) He seems to have either a vacant look or a plastered-on smile. His arms look like stationary helicopter blades. Yeah, I'm piling on, but I've never understood the "Patrick is the best in the business" stuff that people often say. Even without his mouthing off, I would not be a fan.

 

[Mathman]

I think his interpretive skills run the gamut from A to B. (Apologies to Dorothy Parker.)

Why haven't I heard that before.

I've never understood the "Patrick is the best in the business" stuff that people often say.

Patrick had the best footwork in the business when he burst onto the scene in 2008 and 2009 (excepting only Kurt Browning as a pro). He was a CoP pioneer in that he was the first skater to really understand what the "Skating Skills" component of the PSC was supposed to be about.

At the time, people said he would be a wonder if he could get a quad. He got a quad -- an excellent one.

Then they said he would be a wonder if he got some performance, musical, and interpretive skills. He tried his best, starting with his Elegy exhibition program, setting aside piling on the tech in favor of working on technical/artistic balance. He is not Stephane Lambiel or even Jeff Buttle, but to his credit he has developed a style of his own.

One day, like Rip Van Winkle, he wakes up to find the world gone by without him. Although I have to admit, in the interval after Skate Canada and before NHK, I didn't think it had.

Yes, he has a preternatural and uncanny gift of being able, time after time, to come up with atrocious things to say and inappropriate ways to say them. Although I still maintain that the press eggs him on in order to sell newspapers. I don't think he means any harm -- and even if he does, who does he hurt?

 

[scintillant]

Longer qoute

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/24/chan-is-right-where-he-wants-to-be


Really great attitude from him.... :sarcasm:

Oh no, Patrick...
This quote makes it sound like he is hoping for Yuzu or Javi and other skaters that work hard on quads to get injured and that he considers his fellow competitors' injuries are a 'show' that he 'enjoys'...
I am so sure that's not really the case, and I really hope the named competitors know that too.
Otherwise it is just so saddening, knowing Yuzu describes Patrick 'a brightly shining sun that lights me and makes me realize the shortcomings of myself as a skater'.