Junior Worlds: Ladies Short Program

[gsk8]

Kamila Valieva of Russia took the lead in the Ladies' Short Program in Tallinn, Estonia, on Friday afternoon. South Korea's Haein Lee, who finished eighth last year, is currently in second, followed by Russia's Daria Usacheva.

Valieva gave a confident and solid skate to "Girl on the Ball," landing a triple loop, double Axel, and triple Lutz-triple toe. All jumps received positive grades of execution (GOE) and the 2019-20 Junior Grand Prix Final champion also earned a level 4 for quality spins and footwork. She scored a new personal best of 74.92 points.

"I'm satisfied with almost everything I did today," said the 13-year-old. "I skated quite well, except for the combination, there was a little mistake. I skated calmly and wasn't as nervous as at the Junior Grand Prix Final."

More...

What are your thoughts on the ladies' short? Who surprised you the most? Which skater impressed you the most and why?

 

[NaVi]

Top 25 scored over 50(one missed the cut). I have been watching Junior Worlds since 2015(last time it was held in Tallinn) and the field is so much deeper and watchable now. Koreans emerged, some Russians moved to other countries, US ladies are doing better than they did then, and everyone in general is getting a little bit better.

 

[ladyjane]

Haein Lee made my day. Of course, Kamila Valieva was very good but I was so impressed by Haein Lee. I loved watching her skate. Ladies are my least favourite discipline (in order it's pairs, men, dance and then ladies for me), especially in the Juniors - sorry folks - but this 14 year old showed some real maturity. Glad she's in second but I would have had her a little closer in points to Kamila.

 

[labgoat]

My thoughts are that I am sorry I cannot view this competition anywhere. I hoped to watch it later when I got home but now it is blocked at ISU website.

 

[hippomoomin]

Other than Kamila and Haein, other skaters are underwhelming. Neither Daria or Maiia had that Eteri magic, and I do think Maiia was over scored. Both would be just the average "Russian good" if it were not because of Eteri's packaging. Alysa didn't do so great either, I think her score is fair. I don't know for a skater who can do 3A, how can her 2A be so tiny and well below average. Haein has the best 3-3 in the competition. I do hope Kamila can approach her program differently. Less is more.

 

[ladyjane]

My thoughts are that I am sorry I cannot view this competition anywhere. I hoped to watch it later when I got home but now it is blocked at ISU website.

That's really sad. It seems one is lucky when there is no broadcasting deal at all, so you can watch the ISU You Tube channel instead. I know in my country it's the speed skaters who complain, but - luckily - our Figure Skaters have no problem because there was no deal at all with the major broadcaster over here. I even got my money back from Eurosport (who is not the National, free, broadcaster) when they admitted to not broadcasting any Figure Skating. It seems as if it's better when you haven't got any interest in a sport (at least not a National interest) you're welcome to watch. Not good, and I really feel sorry for you and your compatriots. Everyone should be able to watch competitions whether you have a National interest or not.

 

[brakes]

Post SP conference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MwU8lWhLc0

 

[Ichatdelune]

My thoughts are that I am sorry I cannot view this competition anywhere. I hoped to watch it later when I got home but now it is blocked at ISU website.

I can download the video and share it through Google Drive, would you want me to do that?

Edit: Oh the whole stream... Sorry I do lack sleep

Edit 2: SBS Sports (channel here in Korea) broadcasted starting from group 4 (I think), Korean commentary and all but at least there's footage. Would you want me to share that with you?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The call on Alysa's combo (3A-3T<) was a bit strange. The 3A looked a little short. The 3T, while pre-rotated beyond what's allowed, looked to get around fine on the back end. The panels tend to not look at prerotation when making these calls, so it was a bit surprising it happened here while the 3A being short was overlooked.

 

[Ichatdelune]

Y'all I paid a dollar and downloaded the SBS Sports footage, it's on my Google Drive so go watch it here : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w_0j2hksJpa2wIgw0Wef9qbPri2cT7HC/view?usp=sharing

 

[brakes]

The call on Alysa's combo (3A-3T<) was a bit strange. The 3A looked a little short. The 3T, while pre-rotated beyond what's allowed, looked to get around fine on the back end. The panels tend to not look at prerotation when making these calls, so it was a bit surprising it happened here while the 3A being short was overlooked.

What is the score difference between 3A<3T and 3A3T< ?

 

[Elucidus]

Judging was a joke, as always. They ignored huge UR on Liu's 3A (why ladies 3A URs always ignored? ) while made up false edge and UR call for Usacheva's 3F+3T combo. Yeah, she had bad landing there and the combo probably shouldn't get positive GOE - but it was rotated nevertheless. She had delayed exit on that 3T - similar to Valieva's exit on her combo, btw - but having turn on the exit while completing movement of a free leg to back - doesn't mean that the jump is still being rotated on the ice. That, and her edge was clearly inside - as far as I remember she never got flip edge calls before.
Also TP was as inconsistent as it can get. Just compare Urushadze vs Kurakova calls, for example. For Urushadze they decided to be as strict as they can - and called all her 2 URs despite them being pretty small. Kurakova on other hand URed all her jumps except 2A (i.e. 3 URs) - and they called only one. One of the two uncalled Kurakova's URs (3Lo<) was huge too. Is it fair in relation to Urushadze's treatment? Of course not. But in ladies judging TP work double standarts pretty much a given already :sarcasm: I realize that my constant grumbling irritate some people and they can think that it's just tiny insignificant details and what is important is personal impressions from performances etc. But you know what? With proper calls placements would be different. As long as fs considered a competitive sport - placements will be important. Therefore being overly picky about technical details is justified - as long as you interested in fs as a competition and not just a show.
Contrary to that TP work in JWC men's event was while strict - but many times more consistent and fair :thumbsup: They gave many calls to everybody evenly - from unknown skaters to podium favorites. I have some theories about why there is always such a difference between tech panel approach to men and women calling. One of them is political - in environment with one country domination they try to boost up other competitors as much as they can. Other - weak ability to rotate jumps fully by majority of ladies comparing to men. If called strictly and fairly - most of ladies protocols will turn in carrot fields - leaving on top with huge unreachable scores gap mostly young Russians - who rotates triples without issues due to brutal jumping drills training environment and low weight. So ISU probably don't want that as this will be bad for sport image? Idk :scratch3: Nevertheless - what is unfair - remains unfair despite what good reasons it can be justified with.
PCS's judging was a joke as well. Shabotova was shamelessly robbed getting mere 22 points in PCS only because she was in first flight - for example. Despite having one of the best skating skills in the whole tournament. It's pure reputational judging - they just don't care what skater shows on the ice at all. Haein Lee and Liu were overscored through the roof also. Their level of skating skills and transitions is much weaker than Usacheva's and Khromykh's level - yet they got the same or better PCS Circus.
Again, what annoys me is not that my favorite Russians can be beaten It's just that when people see how real talents are assessed in comparison to mediocre skaters, how they allowed to be trampled over easily - their taste of what is good skating skills, performance and elements becomes skewed, twisted and wrong. Which results in sincere belief that their overscored favorites really deserves such scores and they begin demand and expect them later - completely losing ability to discern what real quality is. Raising such fans is making figure skating a disservice.

 

[Elucidus]

The call on Alysa's combo (3A-3T<) was a bit strange. The 3A looked a little short.

Are you joking? UR was huge. What is little UR on 3A then, you can ask? See Daniel's Grassl 3A< in today's JWC FP https://youtu.be/QYXH3eeBZtE?t=11515 which was properly called, btw. That is what I call "little UR".

The 3T, while pre-rotated beyond what's allowed

Allowed "level of prerotation" does not exist in ISU rules.

, looked to get around fine on the back end. The panels tend to not look at prerotation when making these calls, so it was a bit surprising it happened here while the 3A being short was overlooked.

What are you talking about? :whack: Liu underrotated both jumps. See from this angle, maybe, in slo-mo? https://youtu.be/wcF-eHkSEc8?t=58

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

What are you talking about? :whack: Liu underrotated both jumps. See from this angle, maybe, in slo-mo? https://youtu.be/wcF-eHkSEc8?t=58

The 3T finished fine. Her right toe pick is facing the camera at take-off, and is virtually all the way around. Yes, there was too much pre-rotation but the landing as it was isn't what typically gets called <. The 3A was short though.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

First of all i must say I was very pleased with the competition itself. Those junior ladies are getting beter and better every year. Second, i found the judging more/less fair. Regarding under-rotations topic, keep in mind that while most of ladies jumps are under-rotated, or better to say not fully rotated, they may be just enough rotated to not be called as UR jumps. You can listen what Ted is saying while commentating on replays - this jump is underrotated, but it is underrotated in the system? and then he is saying , yes it is, or it is not called as underotated in the system (system, which is define to call some UR jumps enough rotated, and some of them not, and one degree can be a difference. Maybe its stuppid, but thats the way it is)

 

[Mawwerg]

I think I agree with Elucidus regarding Shabotova's PCS and also the same thing about Aglinskyte's. Was it actually 19 PCS skating?

 

[lariko]

Y'all I paid a dollar and downloaded the SBS Sports footage, it's on my Google Drive so go watch it here : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w_0j2hksJpa2wIgw0Wef9qbPri2cT7HC/view?usp=sharing

Oh, bless your soul! It is also blocked in Canada...

 

[labgoat]

I can download the video and share it through Google Drive, would you want me to do that?

Edit: Oh the whole stream... Sorry I do lack sleep

Edit 2: SBS Sports (channel here in Korea) broadcasted starting from group 4 (I think), Korean commentary and all but at least there's footage. Would you want me to share that with you?

Thank you very very much for doing this.

 

[Elucidus]

The 3T finished fine. Her right toe pick is facing the camera at take-off, and is virtually all the way around. Yes, there was too much pre-rotation but the landing as it was isn't what typically gets called <. The 3A was short though.

You do realize that any direction in what any foot is facing during the whole process of takeoff (from picking to leaving the ice) - have nothing to do with direction of a jump, do you? Without knowing what real direction of a jump is - it's impossible to know exactly when let's say hypothetical twizzle entry in a loop becomes prerotation - and when that initial/preparation stage's prerotation becomes real prerotation directed towards side in which a body/foot will fly and its rotation counts can be started. The same can be said about toe jumps as well - all skaters put their picking foot in takeoff turned towards the side already. You can even say that all skaters are stealing part of rotations count even before prerotation on ice begin - just by putting the picking foot turned already. Nevertheless the moment when they leave the ice can vary greatly from skater to skater - and depending on that moment a foot can be turned to the right, straight or to the left. Despite that the direction of a jump have nothing to do with direction in what foot is turned. Else Boyang would jump his lutzes always to the right (from camera directed to his face before picking) But you said something about other, nonpicking foot (right toe pick in toe loop is nonpicking foot) - and that can't be related to direction of a jump either. In classic salchov and a loop for example you jump only from one foot - other foot there is just an extra. How there you suggest to determine direction or count rotations? In toe loop this foot serves as a lever, a pole around which you vault into the air. In practice, given counterclockwise motion of toe loop - direction of a jump is changed to the left (from camera directed to the face of a skater) when you turn around that leg - therefore direction of that foot is already misleading. In a lutz this leg is just for keeping outside edge - and after that it's just an extra as well. The skater can "ride" on ice with that foot in one direction - and change that direction during the takeoff of a jump - you never know. It's very often when the skater changes the direction of second jump in a combo to the almost opposite of a first jump's direction - as it was with Liu's combo there too.
The only method to determine direction of a jump properly is drawing the line between two points - when the skater left the ice and when he landed. In relation to that line Liu both prerotated more than half a turn and landed more than quarter of turn.

First of all i must say I was very pleased with the competition itself. Those junior ladies are getting beter and better every year. Second, i found the judging more/less fair. Regarding under-rotations topic, keep in mind that while most of ladies jumps are under-rotated, or better to say not fully rotated, they may be just enough rotated to not be called as UR jumps. You can listen what Ted is saying while commentating on replays - this jump is underrotated, but it is underrotated in the system? and then he is saying , yes it is, or it is not called as underotated in the system (system, which is define to call some UR jumps enough rotated, and some of them not, and one degree can be a difference. Maybe its stuppid, but thats the way it is)

I perfectly realize that. I call a jump as "underrotated" only in one case - when it's URed more than quarter of a turn. Less URed jumps are clean jumps for me. That, and Ted is saying that because he perfectly aware about how often various TPs ignores URs - moreover he hopes that they will ignore them - as he often said "it's good that they didn't call that". Nevertheless, in case of Usaheva's jump he wanted that she was called. Idk why - but he hinted on that.
I believe he doesn't call the jump as URed if it is rotated enough - with only one exception - when even small UR causes the fall. In that case he can call such jump as URed as the cause for the fall. Else it has little sense to call almost fully rotated jumps as URed for Ted who is former tech specialist as far as I know.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Ladies SP Tech Panel: Poland, France, Germany. For those in a conspiracy frame of mind, make of that what you will.