Russian vs. Japanese Nationals coverage

[surimi]

Just a quick thread to see if anyone else is bothered by the huge difference in two of the most important Nationals coverages this season.
I am currently watching Russian Nationals and have to applaud the RusFed for doing a great job. We fans who couldn't watch live, got archived streams of full competitions, no commercial breaks, and we got to see all skaters' slowmo and bows. There were even some interviews, and the English commentary is a definite bonus. I have so far watched all Ladies and Men, and the only issue I saw were temporarily non-working score/skater details tables. Thumbs up from me. This is what working to increase FS popularity should look like IMO.

On the other hand, after at least two years of good coverages which included post-skate interviews, Japanese Nationals was a huge letdown. I can find nothing whatsoever on Youtube, which makes me so sad because like every year, this was the last competition for some skaters while others are my favorites, but I have no means of seeing how they did. Are the JFed not interested in promoting their skaters in the world, unlike the Russians? Are they really only concerned about their domestic market all of a sudden? Does anyone know why Fuji TV are acting like this after years of no-issue (well roughly... the commercial breaks were tiresome) archived videos on Youtube? I know it's not their obligation to post archived streams/videos online, but try as I might, I can't see any advantage in what they're doing, not even a monetary one. But perhaps someone here can shed some light on this disappointing new development?

 

[ladyjane]

I wish I could. Even worse is the fact that all Youtube films available (not complete, but still) were taken down absurdly quickly. I managed to watch quite a few skaters via Rockerskating but these are all blank now too. And I agree: Thumbs up for Russia's Channel 1 with English commentary (by Ted) for their complete coverage and possibility to rewatch too.

 

[katymay]

Japan is penny wise and pound foolish. (Ditto the U.S. which also removes all performances). World wide, the Russian skaters have a huge fan base, even for their 12 and 13 year old stars. Even the skaters at the bottom of the senior ranks are known and followed. After the pandemic, when they show up at an international competitions, the Russian skaters reputations will precede them, whereas no one even knows the names of the up and coming Japanese skaters. (And no JGP this year to showcase the juniors) The world wide exposure that the Russian pairs and ladies get gives them a definite boost, and hurts the Japanese, Americans and Koreans who will come into competition relatively unknown by comparison. The way to fix this is simple: After the official competition-maybe a week (or month) or so after-post the competition on YouTube or on an official Federation website. Especially leading up to the Olympics. To limit exposure is dooming their chances before they even show up to compete.

 

[alexocfp]

Fuji on demand with a free 2 week trial and a VPN did the trick.

Every single skate was shown as well as the gala.

But I certainly prefer the Channel One, YouTube method of the Russian nationals. Can watch it live or on demand without any hassle. And for free.

 

[Winnie_20]

I watched all events of the Japanese Nationals via iSakura. Paid $ 8 for a week of access to 90-or-so Japanse TV channels/streams and everything also available afterwards as archived streams (I really needed those seven days, because my family don’t appreciate me not socializing during Xmas, which is 2.5 days! I think it was four dollars for three days or so?)

It wasn’t as easy as youtube, and not free, but definitely worth every cent.
I still prefer youtube, though! And this 19th century geoblocking (the behind the scenes stream) and not making things available for the FS world to watch like RusNats is just stupid.

 

[TallyT]

JSF sold the rights to Fuji, probably for a lot, and TV stations don't usually give a damn about other countries' access (look at the fights over piracy for popular movies or shows like Game of Thrones, which were always because they wouldn't release them at the same time in other countries), just about ratings. Fuji weren't about to make it easier, since that might means some domestic audience went to youtube and they were expecting, and as I understand it got, big ratings, especially for the men. I also believe they are putting together some 'repeat' shows, which they expect to do well out of.

Even the Russian TV stations aren't looking at that sort of incentive to be Grinchy. I read the other day that even a couple of people who put together the music cuts of Yuzu's new programs and put them up have been made to yank them or go private, and they had no footage, just the titles were enough.

(I was warned about this by the Yuzu fandom pretty much the minute I got in. The ice shows have been the same, getting access was a massive chore and gave me new and totally unwanted computer lessons in streaming/rabbiting/Japanese TV websites etc - also how and when to download and save religiously because do ye of little faith think his and Shoma's ice show numbers stayed up on youtube for more than a day or two?)

iSakura is good, and pretty cheap, and downloadable, which is something.

And as far as JSF are concerned the domestic market for JNats will continue, at least for the foreseeable future with their current stars, to be a fiercely competed and popular bloodbath. If they cared that much about what their actions would do to their stars' international standing and scores, they wouldn't have been so much harder on the scoring at JNats, but followed the US/Russian 'give 'em candy' route.

 

[surimi]

JSF sold the rights to Fuji, probably for a lot, and TV stations don't usually give a damn about other countries' access (look at the fights over piracy for popular movies or shows like Game of Thrones, which were always because they wouldn't release them at the same time in other countries), just about ratings. Fuji weren't about to make it easier, since that might means some domestic audience went to youtube and they were expecting, and as I understand it got, big ratings, especially for the men. I also believe they are putting together some 'repeat' shows, which they expect to do well out of.

Even the Russian TV stations aren't looking at that sort of incentive to be Grinchy. I read the other day that even a couple of people who put together the music cuts of Yuzu's new programs and put them up have been made to yank them or go private, and they had no footage, just the titles were enough.

You mean JFed changed the contract with Fuji TV somehow? Because the most baffling thing for me is that Fuji TV Sports had no issues posting the 2019, 2018 etc. Nationals along with interviews on YT, and it had many views so it must have generated some money for Fuji TV from ad revenue. (at least that's how I imagine it working) This year's approach makes no sense to me, unless they think fans in Japan are willing to pay big bucks for several months old Nats skaters' interviews on a private channel or something...

I totally agree with whoever said that this sitting on videos of already aired competitions like a hen on eggs is stone age tactics, and does not promote the sport in the slightest. Next time ISU whines about how to increase FS popularity, maybe archiving Japan and US Nats would be a good starting point. You can't become a fan of what you can't watch.

 

[Jeanie19]

You mean JFed changed the contract with Fuji TV somehow? Because the most baffling thing for me is that Fuji TV Sports had no issues posting the 2019, 2018 etc. Nationals along with interviews on YT, and it had many views so it must have generated some money for Fuji TV from ad revenue. (at least that's how I imagine it working) This year's approach makes no sense to me, unless they think fans in Japan are willing to pay big bucks for several months old Nats skaters' interviews on a private channel or something...

I totally agree with whoever said that this sitting on videos of already aired competitions like a hen on eggs is stone age tactics, and does not promote the sport in the slightest. Next time ISU whines about how to increase FS popularity, maybe archiving Japan and US Nats would be a good starting point. You can't become a fan of what you can't watch.

And once you become a fan of a particular skater, you want to watch prior years performances. And if they get geoblocked for copyright, you can never watch them.

 

[lappo]

JSF sold the rights to Fuji, probably for a lot, and TV stations don't usually give a damn about other countries' access (look at the fights over piracy for popular movies or shows like Game of Thrones, which were always because they wouldn't release them at the same time in other countries), just about ratings. Fuji weren't about to make it easier, since that might means some domestic audience went to youtube and they were expecting, and as I understand it got, big ratings, especially for the men. I also believe they are putting together some 'repeat' shows, which they expect to do well out of.

Even the Russian TV stations aren't looking at that sort of incentive to be Grinchy. I read the other day that even a couple of people who put together the music cuts of Yuzu's new programs and put them up have been made to yank them or go private, and they had no footage, just the titles were enough.

(I was warned about this by the Yuzu fandom pretty much the minute I got in. The ice shows have been the same, getting access was a massive chore and gave me new and totally unwanted computer lessons in streaming/rabbiting/Japanese TV websites etc - also how and when to download and save religiously because do ye of little faith think his and Shoma's ice show numbers stayed up on youtube for more than a day or two?)

iSakura is good, and pretty cheap, and downloadable, which is something.

And as far as JSF are concerned the domestic market for JNats will continue, at least for the foreseeable future with their current stars, to be a fiercely competed and popular bloodbath. If they cared that much about what their actions would do to their stars' international standing and scores, they wouldn't have been so much harder on the scoring at JNats, but followed the US/Russian 'give 'em candy' route.

And that's where I think the idea of a double commentary (Russian on TV Channel One/ English on Youtube Channel One) covered all needs and actually widened the audience not only to the Russian public but also to the international one. I think Fuji TB could try something similar, even though I think Channel One, being a partly state sponsored TV station, has it easier on these matters.
I do agree with @surimi that they should at least upload the video once the competition is done (maybe after a week, if they want to really make sure to squeeze it for all it's worth domestically).
All in all, I watched the Russian competitions with great pleasure because of how easy and accessible they were; I only watched a couple of Japanese skaters because it was more difficult to find the streaming. I don't plan to watch the US nationals because they were a nightmare last year to find, will do with whatever gets uploaded later.

 

[snowflake]

I'm bothered. Wish I could watch Japaneese Nationals now. I catched some of it live when I happened to find a stream. Same with US and Canadian. What will we be able to watch? Also hard to follow the competitors leading up to their nationals.

OK, I know the Russian state is behind their stream with money(and no other nation does this, right?) Whatever, LOL, I've never known so much about Russian skaters(on many levels) as this season

 

[Minz]

Yeah, it's miles easier to watch the Russian Nationals. YouTube is easy to access, the competitions are free, have English writing and commentary, and are available forever. I got Peacock to watch the Grand Prix events this year and US Nationals are on there. Several years ago, there used to be something called IceNetwork, which was a website that had full competitions PLUS extra interviews, and content. But it's incredibly difficult to watch the Japanese Nationals, especially if you live in the US like I do and you don't want to have to stay up all night for a week in order to watch the competitions on a live stream

 

[bouncy]

And once you become a fan of a particular skater, you want to watch prior years performances. And if they get geoblocked for copyright, you can never watch them.

VPNs will do the magic for you! There are tons of free VPN plugins in the Chrome webstore. I installed a Russian one and got access to the RusNats practice livestream last season.

 

[CarolPooh]

Honestly, I don't understand why they don't upload the whole competition after the TV boardcast. They have uploaded the programs of the popular skaters on Youtube already. How can uploading the videos of the lesser known skaters hurt their revenue? It seems to me that they just don't care.

BTW, the whole JNats can be found on Bilibili, which is similar to Youtube, if you know how to navigate it.

 

[ice coverage]

Next time ISU whines about how to increase FS popularity, maybe archiving Japan and US Nats would be a good starting point.

The ISU does not own -- and has no control over -- media rights to Japanese Nationals and U.S. Nationals.

Regarding video of national competitions, the ISU is not one of the issues.

---

...
Several years ago, there used to be something called IceNetwork, which was a website that had full FREE competitions PLUS extra interviews, and content. ...

Access to IceNetwork video of major competitions was not free!
Paying an annual subscription fee was necessary to view IceNetwork video of Grand Prix Series, U.S. Nationals, and ISU Championships. (U.S. Classic too.)
The fee was necessary both for live streaming and for on-demand video.

(I do not remember whether or not IceNetwork video of U.S. Regionals and Sectionals was free?
In some years, free on-demand video from the Glacier Falls summer domestic competition was added to IceNetwork days after the event. I appreciated the free video from Glacier Falls, but the event is not in the same league as U.S. Nationals or other biggies.)

 

[Minz]

The ISU does not own -- and has no control over -- media rights to Japanese Nationals and U.S. Nationals.

Regarding video of national competitions, the ISU is not one of the issues.

---

Access to IceNetwork video of major competitions was not free!
Paying an annual subscription fee was necessary to view IceNetwork video of Grand Prix Series, U.S. Nationals, and ISU Championships. (U.S. Classic too.)
The fee was necessary both for live streaming and for on-demand video.

(I do not remember whether or not IceNetwork video of U.S. Regionals and Sectionals was free?
In some years, free on-demand video from the Glacier Falls summer domestic competition was added to IceNetwork days after the event. I appreciated the free video from Glacier Falls, but the event is not in the same league as U.S. Nationals or other biggies.)

Thanks, I edited that now

 

[surimi]

The ISU does not own -- and has no control over -- media rights to Japanese Nationals and U.S. Nationals.

Regarding video of national competitions, the ISU is not one of the issues.

---

I realize that, and nowhere did I imply that ISU has power over any Nats broadcasts. JFed is a member of ISU though, so if ISU really cares about increasing FS popularity, then maybe - they should talk to JFed? And other Feds who do likewise with their content. It would then be up to the fed to decide if they want to do something about their broadcasting rights.
I still can't see any substantial financial benefits in not publishing past competitions to get ad revenue.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

BTW, the whole JNats can be found on Bilibili, which is similar to Youtube, if you know how to navigate it.

Oh, thank you! I've vaguely heard of Bilibili, it seems to be the most popular video sharing platform in China these days. Is it possible to search for videos of specific skaters by typing in English? I sometimes don't know the Chinese transliterations of foreign skaters' names.

 

[TallyT]

Honestly, I don't understand why they don't upload the whole competition after the TV boardcast. They have uploaded the programs of the popular skaters on Youtube already. How can uploading the videos of the lesser known skaters hurt their revenue? It seems to me that they just don't care.

BTW, the whole JNats can be found on Bilibili, which is similar to Youtube, if you know how to navigate it.

Do you have the url? I have a downloading program that usually will work for bilibili, maybe I can save and make it available on a private just for forum fen basis... not if the owner of the account asks that people don't download, however.

I'm not sure why the difference last year, maybe the pandemic has made Fuji extra protective of the domestic ratings for what sports events it has (and this one, with their Big Three Yuzuru, Shoma and Rika having their first skate all year, would have been expected to rate over the moon). I don;t know whether they or JSF are to blame for the blanket ban on fancams and fan photos, but that is another symptom of the "my preccioussssssss" tone they take (I wanna know who gets a cut of the myriad of skating magazines in Japan, and how many they will manage to eke out of this one event.)

Do NBC have broadcast rights and therefore a a say over the USNats access? It would explain - not excuse, it's totally shortsighted - why these two countries are the problem, if they are the ones whose Fed signed away rights for money (okay, NBC aren't looking at the same ratings but they would be even more protective of what they have). Again, the TV stations wouldn't give a rats about growing the sport internationally, just what they could get short-term domestically. It's on the federations.

 

[lappo]

Do you have the url? I have a downloading program that usually will work for bilibili, maybe I can save and make it available on a private just for forum fen basis... not if the owner of the account asks that people don't download, however.

I'm not sure why the difference last year, maybe the pandemic has made Fuji extra protective of the domestic ratings for what sports events it has (and this one, with their Big Three Yuzuru, Shoma and Rika having their first skate all year, would have been expected to rate over the moon). I don;t know whether they or JSF are to blame for the blanket ban on fancams and fan photos, but that is another symptom of the "my preccioussssssss" tone they take (I wanna know who gets a cut of the myriad of skating magazines in Japan, and how many they will manage to eke out of this one event.)

Do NBC have broadcast rights and therefore a a say over the USNats access? It would explain - not excuse, it's totally shortsighted - why these two countries are the problem, if they are the ones whose Fed signed away rights for money (okay, NBC aren't looking at the same ratings but they would be even more protective of what they have). Again, the TV stations wouldn't give a rats about growing the sport internationally, just what they could get short-term domestically. It's on the federations.

I think so but others may have more information on this topic. Though, even if they have the exclusive rights they could still upload the full competitions and maybe also the interviews after - say - a week; they even have a youtube channel already (NBC sports) which could be used for it - the channel has 1.45 million subscriber, you would think that even if only a small percentage of them clicked on a skating video instead of football once in a blue moon it would still be better than the current situation where, outside of the day of the competitions, very few have a chance to discover that figure skating actually exists.

 

[ice coverage]

... Do NBC have broadcast rights and therefore a a say over the USNats access ...?

Yes.

I think so but others may have more information on this topic. Though, even if they have the exclusive rights they could still upload the full competitions and maybe also the interviews after - say - a week; they even have a youtube channel already (NBC sports) which could be used for it - the channel has 1.45 million subscriber, you would think that even if only a small percentage of them clicked on a skating video instead of football once in a blue moon it would still be better than the current situation where, outside of the day of the competitions, very few have a chance to discover that figure skating actually exists.

The sale of media rights is an important source of revenue for U.S. Figure Skating, which has a long-term deal with NBC.
For those in the U.S., a paid subscription to Peacock Premium allows access to full competitions (streaming and on-demand video).

Putting everything on YouTube (even with a week's delay) would greatly diminish the value of digital rights, I would think.

I believe that Peacock Premium would have far more subscribers (by an order of magnitude) than the YouTube channel of NBC Sports. In addition to individual subscribers to Peacock Premium, Xfinity customers get Peacock Premium for free. Same for some Cox customers.
(NBC Sports does post some highlights from major figure skating competitions on its own website as well as on its YouTube channel. The existence of the sport is "discoverable" on those platforms.)