Wagner "furious" on scores

[Globetrotter]

Yes, wouldn’t surprise me...that said, Wagner expressed disapproval the INSTANT her score came up, before Chen ever took the ice. She knew that in her mind, something wasn’t right...and I know many fans (both here and elsewhere) thought so too.

Whether Wagner had a legit case, I don’t know. All I know is that Chen fought like mad but the URs made it close. Could have gone either way but I don’t have a problem with the result...I can see how Wagner would be emotional about it though

I think in the end, it was the perception that Karen fought harder and showed greater hunger than Ashley that sealed the deal. USFS could just as easily do a Mirai move like in 2014 but they did not. That said, I get it that many fans of Ashley are upset. I also agree fully with what she criticized about PCS scoring. But the way it was delivered, it just came across really petulant with no acknowledgement of her own responsibility and laying the blame just on the judges.

Fact is the TP were far harsher on Karen than her. Fact is also she popped that salchow and messed up the lutz. Had either of them have been clean, she would have gotten bronze and be sent to Pyeongchang. Oh and the complain that PCS was unfairly boosted, as if she did not receive the same previously. Or ignoring that equally good performers like Mariah Belle and Starr Andrews also got hosed on PCS for not having the most favored status. Or that Angela Wang was definitely hosed for her beautiful and clean SP. And that PCS consists of 5 components and that Ashley’s strengths in PE accounted for only one component and her SS and TR were not better than Karen.

I thought that 4CC would be the best place for her to bring forth the sass and give the swan song performance of her life and tell USFS that they made a bad decision. Pity she withdrew and again there is going to be the perception of a sulking unhappy diva. Ashley performs well, she has an admirable honesty but she certainly is not as PR savvy as her showgirl sass.

 

[Globetrotter]

Did you guys even watch the competition? If anything, Karen "delivered" a very mediocre performance. In Russia it would be second to the last place. Technically with many mistakes, performance-wise very flat, old programs. 127pts at the Nationals with 10% inflation in components, =121 at the international competition at the highest. This is a joke score by this season standards, esp. for OG. While Ashley got her 130 fair and square, less than she would have got for that performance internationally, and, btw, with a new program, which she would polish more with few more weeks.


Ashley's chances were not too bad. The chances for her to prepare and deliver her Boston-level performance are the same as Osmond's chances to deliver Helsinki performance, and more possible than for Karo to get back 3lutz and 7triples in FS. Sotskova throughout her career has never been strong at the second half of the season. I'd say then Ashley's chances for bronze would be about the same as Bradie's, which I consider is quite possible.



Exactly



The most ridiculous part, is that unlike Russians or Canadians, USFed held down its most successul and consistent skater. Makes no sense to me. That's why I think that there must be something more personal there we simply don't know about.

I think you need to cool off a bit. I watched the comp. Karen was not that mediocre as your biased comments seem to suggest. She fought through that performance with grit. Ashley is a good performer no doubt but she was not at her usual standard like in 2016. It was a strategic mistake for not working through LLL until it is solidly entrenched. The potential is there but not displayed that night, sorry. If anything, Mirai and a Karen skated like there was no tomorrow, far hungrier than what Ashley displayed. The judges simply decided to go with grit over show girl. The way Ashley displayed her displeasure and now that 4CC withdrawal, the real issue of PCS judging once again become buried under all the reaction to a ME ME ME display.

 

[AshWagsFan]

The fact is that Ashley should have been the bronze medalist. She is absolutely correct that the judges manipulated the scores to keep her behind Karen. I took a look at the PCS scores that the ISU judges gave to the top four ladies from Nationals at their most recent Grand Prix events. I added their PCS scores for the short and long to simplify my analysis. I thought I would find that Bradie and Mirai's scores were the most inflated, but it turned out to be Karen who received the biggest gift from the judges. Her PCS scores increased by 11.4%. Ashley's Nationals Bonus was zero.


Bradie (SAm) 93.79 (Nationals) 102.62 +8.21 9.4%
Mirai (NHK) 93.81 (Nationals) 98.61 +4.80 5.1%
Karen (SAm) 92.82 (Nationals)103.38 +10.56 11.4%
Ashley (SC) 100.97 (Nationals) 100.94 -0.03 0%

Big shock that usfs was helping Karen, right...:curse: (ty for this it just proves the corruption of the event

 

[AshWagsFan]

it is hypocritical to say that you like skaters giving honest, not-canned answers then turn around to say that you hate tsl for their honest, not-canned chatters.

how is tsl being honest by turning around after saying karen chen wouldn’t make the team and just say oh well usfs likes her better when they aren’t in usfs!?!?

 

[creaturelover]

I thought that 4CC would be the best place for her to bring forth the sass and give the swan song performance of her life and tell USFS that they made a bad decision. Pity she withdrew and again there is going to be the perception of a sulking unhappy diva. Ashley performs well, she has an admirable honesty but she certainly is not as PR savvy as her showgirl sass.

I agree with this. Why withdraw? She is not going to Olympics or Worlds (unless she knows one of her teammates won't go to worlds).

 

[ancientpeas]

I'm pretty sure that Ashley Wagner's actual fury wore itself out long before this thread will.

 

[eriecold]

I don't understand people talking about how someone should be given a spot on the Olympic team for their past achievements (especially when said achievements aren't exactly amazing), that's how Russia ended up having no competitor in the men's competition at the Olympics in their own country.

Plushy was not responsible for losing 2 spots and having only one man going to olys, that honor belongs to Voronov and Kovtun. Why would Russia send any of the 2 men that put whomever went to the olympics in the impossible position of having to skate 4 programs in less than a week?

 

[formersk8ter]

The fact is that Ashley should have been the bronze medalist.

Nope, not a fact.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm pretty sure that Ashley Wagner's actual fury wore itself out long before this thread will.

I think it would be a great name for a band!!

Ashley's Fury

 

[ice coverage]

After watching the interview with the three going, I'm not sure that they are ready for the media spotlight. Gracie and Ashley were both well-spoken in interviews, even if Gracie was accused of being an ice princess She was warm and engaging in speaking to the media, and has become more outspoken since Worlds 16. Mirai and Karen tried, but poor Bradie, she's got the skills for skating, but she needs some work on media presentation. And maybe she was just in shock, but she didn't give them anything to work with. There was no charm or charisma. I've heard some posters say she's standoffish, but I don't think she's a snob. I think she's really shy. They need to get some extra media training on her. And really that might help her presentation (mind you I'm wowed by how she came back from injury and climbed to the top of US skating)

IMO, Bradie/Mirai/Karen deserve to be cut a lot of slack -- because the conditions for their very early interview on remote in San Jose for Saturday Today were far from ideal.
(Especially in comparison to Ashley's interview on [weekday] Today.)

Bradie/Mirai/Karen's interview took place around 5 a.m. local time. They probably needed to be on site at the SAP Center at around 4 a.m. for hair and makeup.
They were sleep-deprived for the happiest of reasons, but sleep-deprived all the same.
Not to mention that the night before, they had competed under immense pressure -- a physically and emotionally draining experience, although the outcome was a dream come true for all three.
In contrast, Ashley was interviewed days after competing -- and at a more reasonable hour of the morning.

Plus Bradie/Mirai/Karen were interviewed via satellite, listening to questions only via earpieces.
IMO, they probably were not given return video ... meaning that they probably could not see their interviewers in New York (could not see them even on a screen).
Which would have made it all the harder to feel at ease with the Saturday Today anchors: Craig Melvin, Sheneille Jones, Dylan Dreyer.
In contrast, Ashley was in studio speaking face to face with the more experienced (and more personable, IMO) interviewers Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb. With whom Ashley prob. already felt some rapport from her previous appearances on Today.

I do think that Ashley naturally is a "good talker," as TV producers would say.
I think Mirai usually is too.
And I am willing to give Bradie and Karen a chance to get more comfortable as they get more interview experience under their belts.

I must have been watching different Gracie interviews from you, because I rarely found her to be "warm and engaging" in on-camera interviews (although after years in the spotlight, she eventually gave some signs of improvement).
My memories of Gracie in interviews are that she typically was polite and eager to please -- but to a fault. I wish she could have relaxed a bit and shown more of her authentic personality (which I imagine really is warm and engaging, although I have never met her). Instead, what I remember is a rather stiff demeanor.

Giving my two cents at this late date, after finally getting around to watching the post-Nats interviews on Saturday Today and Today.

 

[skatefan17]

The criteria is what it is. Ashley's scores were what they were. I really hope we don't have to rehash this for four more years, like we did with Mirai losing out in 2014. If anything, think of this as karmic restoration.

 

[SarahSynchro]

I'm pretty sure that Ashley Wagner's actual fury wore itself out long before this thread will.

I’ll say. We’ve beat this dead horse so much, it’s disintegrated into a pile of crushed bones and dust in the wind.

See what I did there with the Chiddy jab?

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

The criteria is what it is. Ashley's scores were what they were. I really hope we don't have to rehash this for four more years, like we did with Mirai losing out in 2014. If anything, think of this as karmic restoration.

Well, a statement like that is hardly going to help.

 

[charlotte14]

The fact is that Ashley should have been the bronze medalist. She is absolutely correct that the judges manipulated the scores to keep her behind Karen. I took a look at the PCS scores that the ISU judges gave to the top four ladies from Nationals at their most recent Grand Prix events. I added their PCS scores for the short and long to simplify my analysis. I thought I would find that Bradie and Mirai's scores were the most inflated, but it turned out to be Karen who received the biggest gift from the judges. Her PCS scores increased by 11.4%. Ashley's Nationals Bonus was zero.


Bradie (SAm) 93.79 (Nationals) 102.62 +8.21 9.4%
Mirai (NHK) 93.81 (Nationals) 98.61 +4.80 5.1%
Karen (SAm) 92.82 (Nationals)103.38 +10.56 11.4%
Ashley (SC) 100.97 (Nationals) 100.94 -0.03 0%

You are also not correct in the sense that tech panel could have given Ashley at least 3 UR calls but they only gave 1.

 

[Tutto]

I honestly can't believe this thread reached 56 pages

 

[R.D.]

Olympic year emotions, man...

(FTR, I see "only" 42 pages but I think I have my settings configured to show more replies/page.)

 

[frida80]

I honestly can't believe this thread reached 56 pages

I can. Remember the Jason vs. Vincent threads?

 

[macy]

anyone know why she withdrew from 4CC? i'm actually kind of surprised she did since she doesn't have the olympics or worlds to prepare for, and she mentioned in her interview on the today show she had a competition coming up she was training for. this must have been decided in the last couple days...i hope nationals wasn't the last we will see of LLL.

 

[millie]

I think it would be a great name for a band!!

Ashley's Fury

It a great name for a perfume "Ashley's Fury"..

 

[skylark]

Did you guys even watch the competition? If anything, Karen "delivered" a very mediocre performance. .... 127pts at the Nationals with 10% inflation in components, =121 at the international competition at the highest. This is a joke score by this season standards, esp. for OG. While Ashley got her 130 fair and square, less than she would have got for that performance internationally, and, btw, with a new program, which she would polish more with few more weeks.

Ashley's chances were not too bad. The chances for her to prepare and deliver her Boston-level performance are the same as Osmond's chances to deliver Helsinki performance, and more possible than for Karo to get back 3lutz and 7triples in FS. Sotskova throughout her career has never been strong at the second half of the season. I'd say then Ashley's chances for bronze would be about the same as Bradie's, which I consider is quite possible.

The most ridiculous part, is that unlike Russians or Canadians, USFed held down its most successul and consistent skater. Makes no sense to me. That's why I think that there must be something more personal there we simply don't know about.

:thumbsup: Well said.

I would buy a perfume called "Ashley's Fury." Speaking our minds and being true to our feelings in the moment is something I think many, many people could use a little more of.