2016 NHK Trophy Men FS

[Mrs. P]

I'm afraid if Raf pushes him too hard then he might as well lose him as his student. Nathan is young and hungry. He is right that the short way up is a killer BV which is killer jumps. The only factor that may stop him and try and see a bigger picture is no rewarding at PCS for LP like that. I agree it was labored with quads and had no choreo, just a bit in here and another bit in there. Not a huge pleasure to see a program like that. But if judges continue to reward such skates with relatively good PCS then he wouldn't care less.

I don't think Raf is pushing him. I think the BV is all on Nathan.

 

[Sorrento]

I don't think Raf is pushing him. I think the BV is all on Nathan.

You got me wrong- if Raf pushes Nathan to do less quads and try to pursue a quality, choreo, SS way- then Nathan might get bored. He wants big jumps. Raf can't do anything about it. He can only teach him a know how.

 

[Mrs. P]

You got me wrong- if Raf pushes Nathan to do less quads and try to pursue a quality, choreo, SS way- then Nathan might get bored. He wants big jumps. Raf can't do anything about it. He can only teach him a know how.

Oh I misread your post! Yeah I got you...I guess though what's does Raf have to gain by keeping Nathan...I guess it's nice he has a high caliber student.

 

[Jaana]

I would not call this an enjoyable freeskate event, but still there were 4 performances which were very enjoyable to watch and will be rewatched by me:

- Hanyu
- Chen
- Tanaka
- Vailjevs

Congratulations to the medalists!!!:

 

[gmyers]

I don't see where you are coming from. I don't see him being in panic. He is trying to add a new quad to the 4T, that's it. Why do you guys talk all quads when he never went for those like Chen does. Give me a proved source to the Russian Federation official declaration that Mikhail is going to replace Kolyada please, I'd love to read that.
Both Mikhail and Max are valuable athletes, they are young and have a great potential. Who will go to competitions depends solely on their achievements. I think Russian Nationals will be very interesting this year. I hope Mikhail comes with both quads landed.

I don't believe there is any effort to have kolyada replace kovtun but turn him into a similar skater. Everyone seemed to agree that he did so well at worlds because he was able to slowly develop to that point at his own pace because his injury meant the federation basically left him alone. Now post worlds federation controls his programs and he's trying three quads. Will he try toe ,salchow and lutz at nationals?

 

[MaiKatze]

Maybe they all must be held back so that the sole spot to the South Korea Olympics will go to old Master Plushenko. Seems familiar, right? Maybe that destroyed Kovtun's confidence so that he'll never recover. :giveup:

 

[Sorrento]

I don't believe there is any effort to have kolyada replace kovtun but turn him into a similar skater. Everyone seemed to agree that he did so well at worlds because he was able to slowly develop to that point at his own pace because his injury meant the federation basically left him alone. Now post worlds federation controls his programs and he's trying three quads. Will he try toe ,salchow and lutz at nationals?

I think you are overreacting about multiple quads. Kolyada will take the leading position in Russian Team only if he will show great results. Don't expect him to declare multiple quads in SP or LP, even if he does (that would be a mistake because it would make him a second Kovtun) and never lands them- who will make him the Hope of the nation. No one will.
He tried to up his game at NHK. It wasn't successful. But it doesn't mean he will not try and build his stamina and work on those quads in the future. It is all in his hands- if he wants to become a top skater. Hope is one thing. Real achievement is a different one.
The only control that was maintained over Kolyada was an advice to keep the old FS. There was no extra funding, new choreographer invitation, sponsor investment with a development and achievement plan. None of those. Why are you complaining? Either he develops and achieves goals which he has to set by himself with his coach or not. No one came to him and demanded a Wolds gold. No one demanded him to switch to a different coach too.

 

[NoNameFace]

just watched Yuzuru and I have to say, I'm falling in love with that FS a bit...

This was what I'd call an 'organic' performance, even with that fall - there was no race between his skating, choreography and the music, everything seemed liquid and naturally paced. I see that he really focused on emoting and interpretation, but it was no forced feeling in his effort for me.

I think that this program truly shows his maturity, composure and unique sensibility over figure skating and what it means to him. The subtelty of expression, a sense of delicacy and fragility mixed with powerful jumps, step sequences and spins. My favourite moments were first step sequence, the jump right after it (it was so unexpected, just a beauty of continous movement), choreo sequence including Ina Bauer and foremost - his smile and open pose at the end, like he would say: this is for you.

Observing him since 2012 I see how far he's gone into perfecting and improving his perfromance qualities like interpretation, musicality, quality of movement, facial expression, gestures - today it felt like a real story told by his body. He's really an unique skater and unique personality - the way he gestures, pays respect towards audience, rink and coach every time he performs shows how much figure skating is his life and my feeling is now that he pours a part of his life in every performance which makes them kind of vulnerable and definnitely more and more authentic. A really inspirational figure.

 

[rollerblade]

You mean something like this? Male version.

Nah. More like this: https://youtu.be/jaqymceidB8?t=21s

 

[yyyskate]

I felt very excited watching Nathan's FS. this is American's men's skating's real deal. His skating basics are so great. her musicality is extraordinary. all these great qualities still ooze out, despite such a demanding program.

 

[moonkat]

Nah. More like this: https://youtu.be/jaqymceidB8?t=21s

What about this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCwLSuBp9wo

 

[rollerblade]

The black straps ruined it. It's like he was "TP'd" with old VHS tapes.

 

[vorravorra]

I think you are overreacting about multiple quads. Kolyada will take the leading position in Russian Team only if he will show great results. Don't expect him to declare multiple quads in SP or LP, even if he does (that would be a mistake because it would make him a second Kovtun) and never lands them- who will make him the Hope of the nation. No one will.
He tried to up his game at NHK. It wasn't successful. But it doesn't mean he will not try and build his stamina and work on those quads in the future. It is all in his hands- if he wants to become a top skater. Hope is one thing. Real achievement is a different one.
The only control that was maintained over Kolyada was an advice to keep the old FS. There was no extra funding, new choreographer invitation, sponsor investment with a development and achievement plan. None of those. Why are you complaining? Either he develops and achieves goals which he has to set by himself with his coach or not. No one came to him and demanded a Wolds gold. No one demanded him to switch to a different coach too.

Old SP. FS is new.

 

[Krislite]

Two judges gave Nathan 9.00 for Transitions....

No surprise the USA judge was one of them, but Austria? How much did USFSA pay the Austrian judge?

 

[MIM]

And by contrast, what kept running through my mind in the FS was how much more watchable it is now that Marina has worked with Nathan to actually use all the ballet training he must have had over the years.

Still too much two foot skating in spots, but he's now a skater that makes me want to watch, not just think that he could be interesting to watch in future.

Rafael, who argued that that artistry was just the "in between" was not bringing him up to that level. Glad Marina is still listed as primary coach, as she seems to have a vision that will make Nathan a contender this Olympics not just in 2022.

Really hope Nathan and his parents can make it work with both Rafe and Marina, but the way Rafe was pushing himself into the scene with hugs, it looks as though Rafe is continuing to put priority on ownership.

Lol, my thought exactly!
It is interesting that his talent attracts the worlds best coaches and getting him into their nest!!
I am more than excited to witness his growth artistically and technically.

 

[gmyers]

I think you are overreacting about multiple quads. Kolyada will take the leading position in Russian Team only if he will show great results. Don't expect him to declare multiple quads in SP or LP, even if he does (that would be a mistake because it would make him a second Kovtun) and never lands them- who will make him the Hope of the nation. No one will.
He tried to up his game at NHK. It wasn't successful. But it doesn't mean he will not try and build his stamina and work on those quads in the future. It is all in his hands- if he wants to become a top skater. Hope is one thing. Real achievement is a different one.
The only control that was maintained over Kolyada was an advice to keep the old FS. There was no extra funding, new choreographer invitation, sponsor investment with a development and achievement plan. None of those. Why are you complaining? Either he develops and achieves goals which he has to set by himself with his coach or not. No one came to him and demanded a Wolds gold. No one demanded him to switch to a different coach too.

He was moving at a very moderate pace. Now it's trying to add quad salchow and/or quad lutz and harder layout. All the moderation is gone. Now the problem is trying to improve its going at a pace that so fast it's not working for anything. He was forced to move slow before because of injury and this new fast pace could cause injury as well as the bad results.

 

[vorravorra]

He was moving at a very moderate pace. Now it's trying to add quad salchow and/or quad lutz and harder layout. All the moderation is gone. Now the problem is trying to improve its going at a pace that so fast it's not working for anything. He was forced to move slow before because of injury and this new fast pace could cause injury as well as the bad results.

Adding one extra quad to the FS and changing the layout from 5/3 to 4/4 is hardly a fast pace.

 

[gmyers]

Adding one extra quad to the FS and changing the layout from 5/3 to 4/4 is hardly a fast pace.

He's learning quad salchow and quad lutz and has tried both but also has basically lost his quad toe.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

Nathan is simply cramming to many quads in his LP which makes his LP nothing but a jump contest and sloppy landings. Rafael needs to tell him to back off the quads and work on the program. He needs to see the big picture and realize that 2018 isn't his only shot at the Olympics and after 2018 there will be retirements then he can look to making the podium at the Olympics. He has time but he seems to be in a rush for some reason.

I'm afraid of Nathan becoming injured. The way he rushes into his jumps. The hips can only take s much.
I get the feeling Nathan is being pushed to hard by someone. Parents maybe.

 

[vorravorra]

He's learning quad salchow and quad lutz and has tried both but also has basically lost his quad toe.

He didn't lose his 4T, he's done it quite a few times this season with a much higher success rate than last season (moreso than 3A, actually).