2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Mens LP

[4everchan]

Yes, that's the impression I had too. Jason has always been a very humble young man. One of the many, many reasons he his so darn likeable! :luv17:



It's a very good and smart move.
How exactly would him taking it out annoy the "lutz naysayers" or proof them wrong?

i was making a joke what I really mean is YES!!! remove the lutz so we no longer will have to skim through all the posts that diss his lutz... I will be making the same joke when rippons and tanos will get out of fashion... when they go away, many posts will go away (including mine LOL)

 

[FCSSp4]

i was making a joke what I really mean is YES!!! remove the lutz so we no longer will have to skim through all the posts that diss his lutz... I will be making the same joke when rippons and tanos will get out of fashion... when they go away, many posts will go away (including mine LOL)

I think more importantly it helps him avoid mistakes like in Worlds '17. A 4S doesn't have as high a BV but I'm glad he didn't go for the 4lz no matter how tempting. Sure there's a chance he'll be behind Nathan or even Boyang in BV but it's still the wiser choice.

 

[TontoK]

Pending seeing Adam at Finlandia---it's clear that Nathan, Vincent, Max and Jason are in the horse race at this point. I don't see any super dark horses yet.

I know I'm in the minority, and I know it's improbable for this year...

But I cannot, I will not, give up on Torgeshev.

There is just something, and I really don't know exactly what it is, about his skating that mesmerizes me.

Every fan has that one skater that just somehow reaches him, even if the skater doesn't do the same for others.

Torgeshev is that skater for me. He'll break my heart in the end, but I'm sticking by him.

 

[MaiKatze]

i was making a joke what I really mean is YES!!! remove the lutz so we no longer will have to skim through all the posts that diss his lutz... I will be making the same joke when rippons and tanos will get out of fashion... when they go away, many posts will go away (including mine LOL)

Edit: People who dislike Shoma don't need his Lutz as an excuse to dislike him. Where have you been? Have you forgotten his lack of transitions? Two footed skating? Cheated technique? His quads that are triples at best, twizzles at worst? And *clutchespearls* the one-note-expression on his face? Really, 4everchan, I expected more of you!

At this point of the season, I'm glad the Lutz is gone. Who knows what he's training now and how his layout will change when the bigger competitions happen. I didn't miss the Lutz and as far as I'm concerned I'm happy that he's working to improve it, but he doesn't need it and he shouldn't put too much energy into it.

 

[4everchan]

Shoma dissers don't need his Lutz to diss him. Where have you been? Have you forgotten his lack of transitions? Two footed skating? Cheated technique? His quads that are triples at best, twizzles at worst? And *clutchespearls* the one-note-expression on his face? Really, 4everchan, I expected more of you!

At this point of the season, I'm glad the Lutz is gone. Who knows what he's training now and how his layout will change when the bigger competitions happen. I didn't miss the Lutz and as far as I'm concerned I'm happy that he's working to improve it, but he doesn't need it and he shouldn't put too much energy into it.

:thumbsup::agree:

 

[Mrs. P]

I know I'm in the minority, and I know it's improbable for this year...

But I cannot, I will not, give up on Torgeshev.

There is just something, and I really don't know exactly what it is, about his skating that mesmerizes me.

Every fan has that one skater that just somehow reaches him, even if the skater doesn't do the same for others.

Torgeshev is that skater for me. He'll break my heart in the end, but I'm sticking by him.

I like Andrew a lot, actually, and I don't think you're alone in your devotion. I will be happy to put him in dark horse territory when he rocks JGP Belarus next week.

 

[TontoK]

I like Andrew a lot, actually, and I don't think you're alone in your devotion. I will be happy to put him in dark horse territory when he rocks JGP Belarus next week.

OK, Mrs P, time for you to confess, my friend.

Who is that skater that you're going to stick by... in the absence of any real evidence... just a gut feeling that the skater is going to be great?

None of your usual well-thought-out reasoning and logic, mind you.

Who has your heart?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Shoma dissers don't need his Lutz to diss him. Where have you been? Have you forgotten his lack of transitions? Two footed skating? Cheated technique? His quads that are triples at best, twizzles at worst? And *clutchespearls* the one-note-expression on his face? Really, 4everchan, I expected more of you!

"Dissers" isn't much different from calling people haters, and as far as I remember that's not allowed on here, for good reason. It also does nothing for the discussion.
If it's apparently only "dissing" and therefor unfounded - just take a video and point out his transitions, one foot skating, and so on. If you'd prove people wrong about something, they wouldn't say it anymore (the majority at least, I'd think).

 

[Mrs. P]

OK, Mrs P, time for you to confess, my friend.

Who is that skater that you're going to stick by... in the absence of any real evidence... just a gut feeling that the skater is going to be great?

None of your usual well-thought-out reasoning and logic, mind you.

Who has your heart?

Well Jason, which is pretty obvious, but also Ross Miner.

And the Shibsibs in Ice Dance. I stuck to them in those dark years post 2011 Worlds.

 

[MaiKatze]

Victory Ceremony Men & Dance

What's with the potted plants? :think:

 

[TontoK]

"Dissers" isn't much different from calling people haters, and as far as I remember that's not allowed on here, for good reason. It also does nothing for the discussion.
If it's apparently only "dissing" and therefor unfounded - just take a video and point out his transitions, one foot skating, and so on. If you'd prove people wrong about something, they wouldn't say it anymore (the majority at least, I'd think).

I think there's an important point here.

No skater should be immune from criticism, not even popular crowd favorites. This is a discussion forum, after all. Offering criticism is not being a "hater" or "disser."

But none of us seem to be uninformed about the sport in general, and critical posts that include evidence or analysis carry more weight.

PS. The one exception I make, and most seem to agree, is that I consider it ill-mannered and unwelcome to criticize a skater on his/her FanFest thread. In fact, I used to avoid FanFests because of the one-sided discussion, but lately I've found it enjoyable to check for news on my favorites, and to chime in when I have something to offer.

 

[skylark]

Gotta disagree. I thought Brendan's PCS was too low, but I don't think his overall skating or program was better than Jason's. His quad toe was beautiful - and he got really good GOE on it. But as the program went it was clear he was tiring and executing less well. I also think that even though they took both quads out of Jason's program today, it's still choreographically really demanding - far more so than Brendan's. That said, I do think that because of the last minute changes, this was a very good - but not brilliant - skate from Jason. JMO.

What I'm about to say isn't a very popular way on this forum to look at skaters' performances. But here goes anyway. You may have noticed in the first part of my post that I said I'd just woken up. Brendan's skate, then Jason's, were the only two I'd seen.

Because of that, I responded out of intuitive places that are strongest when we first come out of dreaming. I think this is extremely relevant to those of us who love figure skating, because general audiences don't analyze skating point by point. They know great skating when they see it, and I'm not talking about counting the number of rotations. The quads and difficult jumps/combos do add huge value to what audiences feel, because they're thrilling, and because the skaters themselves show their exultation when they pull such elements off well, and because they convey the feeling of flying.

Figure skating has always relied on such unconscious, intuitive qualities for its popularity with the general public. It's unique because it conveys emotion from performer to audience member. Through jumps, and much more through musically adept movements and all the other more subtle aspects of skating. Audiences want to feel something.

Having said that, if I watch both skates again, I suspect I'll see exactly what you mean and the analytical part of me might even agree with you.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Shoma dissers don't need his Lutz to diss him. Where have you been? Have you forgotten his lack of transitions? Two footed skating? Cheated technique? His quads that are triples at best, twizzles at worst? And *clutchespearls* the one-note-expression on his face? Really, 4everchan, I expected more of you!

Stuff like this drives me up the wall. Literally everyone is free to make their case about the common complaints when it comes to Shoma Uno, or anyone else. Dismissing people and their arguments as "dissers" and "dissings" is such a cheap way out.

You have a problem with talking about two foot skating? Lets just take that, no need for anything else. It is probably the easiest thing to talk about. One foot skating is more difficult, it's not just a whim:

Quring the program, sometimes there’s two-foot skating and stopping. For things like that, compared to performing while doing one-foot skating without changing foot the entire time, how different is it in terms of how tiring it gets?

JB It is so different. When a skater switches to two-foot during the performance, generally they are taking deep breathes, catching their breath, things like that. It’s not that you can’t take deep breaths while on one foot, but it’s considerably more physically demanding than when you do it on two feet. It is quite a bit easier on two feet. Yuzu (Yuzuru Hanyu), or Patrick (Chan), are good examples––they are almost always doing their transitions on one foot. They challenge themselves with such programs.

JB is Jeffrey Buttle [x]

So here is Shoma Uno's FS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZFMPosj2BI

Ignore everything and look at his feet. Two foot skating dominates. So which part is a "diss" then and what is actually a genuine issue he has? Especially considering that he is a top tier skater, and according to his fans, a major candidate for OGM. This is a legitimate critique of his skating, particularly relevant to someone who is aiming so high because that should represent the elite of the elite.

 

[MaiKatze]

What I'm about to say isn't a very popular way on this forum to look at skaters' performances. But here goes anyway. You may have noticed in the first part of my post that I said I'd just woken up. Brendan's skate, then Jason's, were the only two I'd seen.

Because of that, I responded out of intuitive places that are strongest when we first come out of dreaming. I think this is extremely relevant to those of us who love figure skating, because general audiences don't analyze skating point by point. They know great skating when they see it, and I'm not talking about counting the number of rotations. The quads and difficult jumps/combos do add huge value to what audiences feel, because they're thrilling, and because the skaters themselves show their exultation when they pull such elements off well, and because they convey the feeling of flying.

Figure skating has always relied on such unconscious, intuitive qualities for its popularity with the general public. It's unique because it conveys emotion from performer to audience member. Through jumps, and much more through musically adept movements and all the other more subtle aspects of skating. Audiences want to feel something.

Having said that, if I watch both skates again, I suspect I'll see exactly what you mean and the analytical part of me might even agree with you.

Interesting way to look at it. How different a program feels if you've been sitting there for 3 hours watching skater after skater after skater. How different it feels if you are in the arena, watching on a big screen on your comfy sofa, or on mobile under your desk at work. There are a lot of ways to look at performances that influence our feelings. Even the mood one is in, can play a part.

Did Shoma finish after the music? Strange, I don't see where he could've lost the time. Gotta watch again. For Science, of course.

 

[skylark]

Interesting way to look at it. How different a program feels if you've been sitting there for 3 hours watching skater after skater after skater. How different it feels if you are in the arena, watching on a big screen on your comfy sofa, or on mobile under your desk at work. There are a lot of ways to look at performances that influence our feelings. Even the mood one is in, can play a part.

Did Shoma finish after the music? Strange, I don't see where he could've lost the time. Gotta watch again. For Science, of course.

:scard7:

 

[gmyers]

Really? It depends on what he wants, I guess, but imho he needs a quad. At least one 4T. We're at a Senior B here and the competition wasn't what one would call world class. Then look at the point gap between Jason and Shoma. If you're happy to be in the Top 10 and content then okay, but it seems to me he isn't. And the rule change won't help THAT much.

Brown can't do quads and doesn't need quads he just needs to wait. The system is being reformed for him so he can win all the events.

 

[keasus]

Ah, Mrs. P. I am always messing up in formatting. I appreciate your guidance and I pledge to do better next time

 

[MaiKatze]

The happy podium (well...the happy meter goes down from left to right!)

 

[TontoK]

The happy podium (well...the happy meter goes down from left to right!)

Oh, did they not get medals? I don't think I've ever seen a podium where they displayed plaques.

 

[Heleng]

For me, Shoma's performance was jaw-dropping, showing exactly why he's a top contender for OGM, and Jason's was a study in artistry, despite obviously being a work in progress. But I'm especially happy for Brendan's achievement in medalling here!:yay: He really seems to have turned a corner and to be on his way to pulling it all together this season, and it's wonderful to see him being rewarded. Plus, it was great to see him with Ricky, one of my faves whom I sorely miss, in the k&c!