Eteri Tutberidze interview 05.05.2017

[ewdokia]

I personally would not openly tell same harsh things as she told about Pitkeev. But I don't blame her for it if she said what she believed was true, if she was annoyed with his attitude so that she still cannot contain it. We don't know what happened between them. May be it was just the way she described. If she invested in him and received 0 on her investment even minus.

I gave you evidence what happened before Euros. We all saw what happened at RN 2015/16. And your conclusions are amazing: first you urge a skater to skate with an injury for what it looks at least one year and when it then gets so badly that the whole career is at stake, you complain about 0 return on investment. Mabye Adian should even pay Eteri for ruining his back? Plus if Adian’s attitude was so bad: why did Renat Laizhev, the director General of Sambo complain so much about him leaving Sambo (https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1037990256.html )? You’d think they’d be rather happy for a hysteric and lazy boy leaving them. :sarcasm:

I don't see any mean unethical agenda behind her words. She has had difficult life.

So just because one had a difficult life, that person is entitled to bash her former students? She is entitled telling lies about them (I gave you evidence for one case in particular – proven by Eteris own words just two years ago). And just because she didn’t have success with her own skating career she is now entitled to sacrifice her skaters' health for her own success as a coach?

 

[ewdokia]

I always try to give the benefit of a doubt

Apparently that benefit of a doubt is only given to Eteri and not to her former skaters, who of course all are lazy, hysteric, jealous and so on. :sarcasm:

I am sorry about Adian. Skaters got injured. I don't know details of his injury, how it started, who is to blame. But I would not trust the posts of those who never had doubts that his "terrible back injury" was only because Eteri forced him to skate despite the pain. That she disregarded medical examination, etc. Any proof to that?

Listen to Tarasova's comment on Adian's free skate at RN and you know who to blame, like Tarasova knew and mentioned it. Buyanova stated in an interview in autumn that Adian is still suffering from that back injury. It was that injury he has been treated even abroad (Germany and the U.S.). Vaitsehovskaja mentioned that Adian had been skatind for a long time with that injury and jumped a lot of quads on it why it's difficult to heal now. He was seen with a taped back at Euros, with an obiously injured back at JW 2015, I saw him injured at Nepala 2015, and he was injured at Nationals 2015. And after Nationals SP Adian himself mentioned that his coaches sent him to RN to win the title, but his back is injured so he couldn’t practice his axle. He also mentioned he got three shots for his back before the LP, still it hurt. How much more evidence do you need? His X-rays?

 

[ewdokia]

Yulia also has a lot of fans, substantially more than haters I'd say. In fact, some of the haters seem to hate specifically the fact that Yulia has so many fans. Yulia is someone who elicits strong reactions in people - and so does Kovtun, but the balance of haters and fans is rather different in his case.

I believe Maxim Kovtun’s “popularity” started when he made the team with not deserving it placing only 5th at Nationals. I too was mad about him that time, though today I think it was rather an intrigue of his fed and his coach. Maxim doesn’t seem to be a person investing much time thinking about strategies or intrigues, but rather about rapping, bowling, etc.

Unfortunately I think that deal didn’t help his career at all. It probably would have been better for him to skate at JW that year. I still remember that case so well, cause it was the last time I was as outraged as know and posting so intensively.

 

[vorravorra]

I believe Maxim Kovtun’s “popularity” started when he made the team with not deserving it placing only 5th at Nationals. I too was mad about him that time, though today I think it was rather an intrigue of his fed and his coach. Maxim doesn’t seem to be a person investing much time thinking about strategies or intrigues, but rather about rapping, bowling, etc.

Unfortunately I think that deal didn’t help his career at all. It probably would have been better for him to skate at JW that year. I still remember that case so well, cause it was the last time I was as outraged as know and posting so intensively.

Yes, that was the beginning if it. But a major reason why he continued to gain haters was his propensity for saying too much of the wrong thing. Eteri hate began in earnest with the story of Lipnitskaya leaving her when about every single Yulia's fan turned into her enemy. She is far better than Maxim at shutting up on average but when she talks... she talks. Inability to keep certain things to herself and presenting them in the light she does has definitely got her a few extra enemies.

And just to clarify - there is a difference between not being painstakingly PC and saying everything that comes to your head. If you choose to do the latter you can't complain about possible consequences.

 

[[email protected]]

Apparently that benefit of a doubt is only given to Eteri and not to her former skaters, who of course all are lazy, hysteric, jealous and so on. :sarcasm:

May be you know more than I do, may be you are even an insider in the "Russian FS kitchen" - I have no idea. But what is also clear is that you don't like Eteri. Hence, no matter what you write the halo of bias will be always present. And once again if she were that bad her champions would not stand up for her - she cannot force Medvedeva to do that - any coach in the world would be happy to have Medvedeva. She also cannot "hypnotize" Medvedeva. I travelled with them from Chelyabinsk to Moscow: they had fun together. Then the image of a cold-hearted monster somehow does not stick with me. Again, I have no idea what in fact happened to Pitkeev. If t Eteri was doing wrong and now she ridicules Adian that's really bad. But I don't believe it.

 

[tars]

The vids with Anna doing quads made me shake my head. Not only worrying about her health, but it makes no sense. This girl has everything to shine in all other areas – the musicality, the charisma, the blade. There is no need for her to do quads so early. She can catch up points in other areas, even when other girls would do a more difficult content. In her case I can see absolutely no benefit for the athlete. :noshake:

What about the benefit for the sport?

She's very lean, tiny, yet strong for her age plus dedicated and hard-working. I don't want to overhype some 13yo novice, but what if (hypothetically) there is a strong possibility for a quad in female 2017/18 JGP circuit? What if jumping specialists like Dudakov say: "she's capable", doctors and parents give (at least temporary) green light?
Being a coach, would you play it safe and hope for often bumpy future or take some moderate risk and give the athlete (and yourself) a chance to leave mark in history?

There are certainly pros and cons in this situation, it's not quite white and black as you picture it.

 

[silverfoxes]

May be you know more than I do, may be you are even an insider in the "Russian FS kitchen" - I have no idea. But what is also clear is that you don't like Eteri. Hence, no matter what you write the halo of bias will be always present. And once again if she were that bad her champions would not stand up for her - she cannot force Medvedeva to do that - any coach in the world would be happy to have Medvedeva. She also cannot "hypnotize" Medvedeva. I travelled with them from Chelyabinsk to Moscow: they had fun together. Then the image of a cold-hearted monster somehow does not stick with me. Again, I have no idea what in fact happened to Pitkeev. If t Eteri was doing wrong and now she ridicules Adian that's really bad. But I don't believe it.

Oh, Evgenia and Eteri had fun in the train or plane, so Eteri couldn't possibly have any other relationships that are not good and you would have been able to observe everything about her character in those few hours? Her relationship with Sergei and Yulia was good...until it wasn't. How many times does it have to be said that she doesn't have to be a "cold-hearted monster" to have character flaws and to have made mistakes? Everyone has flaws and she can hardly be exempt from that. You claim you're giving her the "benefit of the doubt" while ignoring all the facts and having no accurate info about Adian's status over the past couple years (he definitely DID NOT officially retire, for a start). So clearly nothing will change your mind.

Adian was very upset after this article came out and commented on his ask.fm as such. But I suppose his opinion doesn't matter to you at all, and he's just a biased brat with an attitude which was all brought on by himself, and Eteri has no responsibility for the state he's in now. Even though she says herself that she pressured him to skate at different competitions and anyone with eyesight could see he was injured at those competitions.

I certainly do hope that she has learned from her past mistakes & that we won't see more of her current & future skaters having to end their careers early. Only time will tell.

 

[moriel]

The big difference is that I wouldn’t call Gogolev an artist on the ice. At least for now components don’t seem to be his strength. So I can see why Orser is more focusing on jumps. Anna Shtcherbakova on the other hand is a shining artist already right now at age 13. To achieve good results there is no need to teach her quads. Conclusion: if quads in her case are not needed for results, they are probably moreover needed to satisfy her coaches ego.

And there is one more big difference between Brian Orser and Eteri: Brian Orser has an individual approach, if one of his skaters needs special preparation (like Yuzuru with his Asthma), he will take it into account. And he takes care of his students’ injuries, like he didn’t force Yu Na to skate on an injured back, but toned down jump training and allowed her to cure it. Like Yuzuru cured his foot after worlds.

But talking about a bash list regarding quads with youngsters: I’d put ISU on my bash list here. I think they need to do something, either not allowing quads at Juniors or at least limit their amount or bring back figures for Juniors (as a result kids would have less time to practice jumps, as they would also need some time to practice figures). I they will not take care of it now, no longer then ten years and only few skaters will even make it to seniors. I don’t want to watch a sport, where most kids end up crippled.

I thought we were talkin about kids learning extremely difficult elements?
So if a kid has amazing artistry, lets save it from quads. If a kid has no artistry, we dont care that he/she will have his/her health damaged because doing too much too young?

Double standards are such double standards.

 

[andromache]

The big difference is that I wouldn’t call Gogolev an artist on the ice. At least for now components don’t seem to be his strength. So I can see why Orser is more focusing on jumps. Anna Shtcherbakova on the other hand is a shining artist already right now at age 13. To achieve good results there is no need to teach her quads. Conclusion: if quads in her case are not needed for results, they are probably moreover needed to satisfy her coaches ego.

And there is one more big difference between Brian Orser and Eteri: Brian Orser has an individual approach, if one of his skaters needs special preparation (like Yuzuru with his Asthma), he will take it into account. And he takes care of his students’ injuries, like he didn’t force Yu Na to skate on an injured back, but toned down jump training and allowed her to cure it. Like Yuzuru cured his foot after worlds.

But talking about a bash list regarding quads with youngsters: I’d put ISU on my bash list here. I think they need to do something, either not allowing quads at Juniors or at least limit their amount or bring back figures for Juniors (as a result kids would have less time to practice jumps, as they would also need some time to practice figures). I they will not take care of it now, no longer then ten years and only few skaters will even make it to seniors. I don’t want to watch a sport, where most kids end up crippled.

Your logic in your first paragraph is spotty at best. If Gogolev is bad artistically, shouldn't MORE time be spent developing his skating skills, choeo, etc., and less on jumps? And if Anna S. is a natural artist already, then she has plenty of time to work on jumps.

But I do agree that the recent spurt of quads among Eteri's girls, as shared on social media, seem like they are very much meant to ego-boost. I think there are positive aspects, for sure, to teaching junior ladies very difficult and advanced jumps (also risks), but sharing it on social media is unnecessary - especially because it then places an expectation on those very young girls who might not have the bodies to do those jumps for much longer. (If the skaters in question were at least senior-aged, I think I would feel differently. But hyping quads for 13 year old girls seems like a bit much - it's such an uncertain age, and may crush those girls later on).

I looooooove the idea of bringing back figures for juniors - there are so many benefits that we would see translate to seniors! Like reduced edge calls probably! And posture. It actually seems like the perfect compromise for those fans who wish the senior age level would be raised.

 

[Hannah555]

Just by the length of this thread you can see that it's an off season.... She said what she said. She didn't ask anyone ever to like her. She's definitely not the type who cares about what is written about her and we all agree she's not an angel. This is figure skating. No one is safe from injuries. And if to blame (which won't help anyone ) then we should blame also Sergei Dudakov equally... the fact that he never gives interviews doesn't make up for the fact that his skaters skated with injuries...

Back to Eteri, parents are very much involved in training life and they watch trainings all the time so if the training were that painful and hard on skaters with yelling and physical abuse don't you think someone would have already filmed it???

 

[Hannah555]

And there is one more big difference between Brian Orser and Eteri: Brian Orser has an individual approach, if one of his skaters needs special preparation (like Yuzuru with his Asthma), he will take it into account.

Don't get me wrong. Brian is my favorite coach. I just hope you're aware of the fact that Brian would never take anyone of Eteri's student's due to the simple fact that their families have no money to pay... Sambo is helping their students financially because many of those youngsters are from very poor families.

 

[Daniel1998]

As an Adian fan, reading what Eteri said about him after she essentially destroyed years of his career by pushing him beyond his limits pained me.

Especially this excerpt from the interview translation:
Adian Pitkeev - the only athlete who left and came there to say goodbye. He brought flowers and started crying. I saw his tears and was in tears myself. I asked him `why are you crying?' He said `I'm so sorry for you - you wasted so many years on me'. I told him - no Adian, don't feel sorry for me.

Eteri is not, I don't think, an evil coach. I can tolerate her style of coaching because, if you feel like you're being overextended or pushed too much, you can simply leave. But it looks from the interview like Adian waited too long to leave, unable to understand that Eteri's mechanical coaching was only causing issues for him instead of results. At the time of leaving it seems he still blamed his injury and difficulties on himself. I hope he realizes now that he made a good decision to leave, and staying any longer with Eteri would only have resulted in even more serious problems. Hopefully we'll be able to see him on the ice soon, but the only important thing is that he gets fully healthy as quickly as possible. I can swallow the thought of never seeing him compete again as long as he recovers from all the damage he took during his stay in Eteri's camp.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Don't get me wrong. Brian is my favorite coach. I just hope you're aware of the fact that Brian would never take anyone of Eteri's student's due to the simple fact that their families have no money to pay... Sambo is helping their students financially because many of those youngsters are from very poor families.

Don't get me wrong because I think I've been known as a supporter of many Russian skaters and especially the women and Sambo in general but your statement makes me wonder if the situation you are describing may in fact be reason enough to give a little extra vigilance. I mean...if Orser's students are paying then the expectations are going to be high on Orser whereas if Russian Sports and schools are paying for the training and room and board then they become the ones making the demands on the student. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with the arrangement but I can spot that one has a potential to put a student in a more precarious situation than the other. So being on a slightly heightened state of awareness might be in the students interest. Especially if we recognize a pattern of injury.

Keep in mind I'm not suggesting that there is an egregious pattern in Sambo but discussing our perceptions and keeping a narrative on the subject free of a flame debate can actually benefit the student. Nothing wrong with the coaches knowing that we know and care what they are up to. Just food for thought I guess.

 

[Hannah555]

Don't get me wrong because I think I've been known as a supporter of many Russian skaters and especially the women and Sambo in general but your statement makes me wonder if the situation you are describing may in fact be reason enough to give a little extra vigilance. I mean...if Orser's students are paying then the expectations are going to be high on Orser whereas if Russian Sports and schools are paying for the training and room and board then they become the ones making the demands on the student. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with the arrangement but I can spot that one has a potential to put a student in a more precarious situation than the other. So being on a slightly heightened state of awareness might be in the students interest. Especially if we recognize a pattern of injury.

Keep in mind I'm not suggesting that there is an egregious pattern in Sambo but discussing our perceptions and keeping a narrative on the subject free of a flame debate can actually benefit the student. Nothing wrong with the coaches knowing that we know and care what they are up to. Just food for thought I guess.

Well, it a matter of personal interpretation. For me it shows that her team cares about their skaters including their personal issues and including their families. You know that they don't take only promising skaters. She could have taken many foreign students instead... I don't see how in the USA or in Canada any skater will be given the same approach if they don't have any money. I think her team in general is very demanding but it doesn't have anyhting to do with skaters background. It's simply because in Russia this field is so competitive. I remember that Evgenia skated injured several times and that was her decision because if you're out of competitions than no one in federation will care about you. In Russia you have a line of young and promising skaters each year and every single one of them is aiming for international competitions. We can talk here for ages but nothing will change the situation because well we are fans of very cruel and dangerous sport...

Again, I personally prefer Brian's approach. But I don't think it's right to compare them. I would rather find any example of russian coach with personal approach and compare him/her to Eteri.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I believe Maxim Kovtun’s “popularity” started when he made the team with not deserving it placing only 5th at Nationals. I too was mad about him that time, though today I think it was rather an intrigue of his fed and his coach. Maxim doesn’t seem to be a person investing much time thinking about strategies or intrigues, but rather about rapping, bowling, etc.

Unfortunately I think that deal didn’t help his career at all. It probably would have been better for him to skate at JW that year. I still remember that case so well, cause it was the last time I was as outraged as know and posting so intensively.

You mean like him winning the next 3 Russian national titles, making the GPF twice (including 2 GP golds - the only Russian man since Plushenko to do that), and a 4th at Worlds in his first full senior season? :sarcasm: Granted it was him actually skating well and upgrading his content (and not merely just federation propping) which got him the hype/reputation following the 2013 Worlds failure. As the sole entry at 2013 Worlds, it appears that said experience (and disappointment) motivated him to have two solid seasons after that - he immediately added a 4S and made it to the GPF in his first season on the Grand Prix, and the next one too.

I'm sure part of Kovtun also wishes he had skated at 2013 Junior Worlds instead, just so people would stop incessantly scapegoating him for not getting 2 spots at senior Worlds -- when no other Russian man (save for Plushenko, who was injured) likely would have gotten the two spots themselves. Voronov/Gachinski/Menshov should have sent Christmas cards to Kovtun for being the sitting duck and take the heat, when they most likely would have gotten only 1 spot themselves (and subsequently faced the flack Kovtun got) the way their international seasons were going:

For reference, to get 10th (and 2 Olympic spots) at Worlds 2013 a sole Russian man would have needed 229.01. These were their international scores that season:
- Voronov in 2013: 210.18 at Europeans, 214.88 at NHK, SB: 217.61 at Cup of China (good enough for 11th at Worlds 2013; 11.39 points from 10th)
- Gachinski in 2013: 199.58 at Skate Canada, 209.84 at Rostelecom, SB: 210.15 at Triglav (good enough for 15th at Worlds 2013; 18.85 points from 10th)
- Menshov in 2013: 212.53 at Skate Canada, 212.94 at Nebelhorn, 223.72 at Rostelecom, SB: 238.68 at NRW (which, btw, is the only score from any Russian man that season that would have cracked top 10 - 7th to be exact - at Worlds and get 2 spots)

While Kovtun, as a junior, hadn't ever scored enough that 2012-2013 season to clear 229 points (though 226.57 at Euros was close), at least he had scored above 220 at three competitions -- four, if you throw in points for the choreo sequence junior men don't do -- so he'd shown more consistency and better scoring potential than the senior guys, which could have factored into the final decision. But the reality is, Russian men were pretty mediocre that season, and nobody (except a healthy Plushenko) had demonstrated a likelihood of getting 2 Olympic spots at 2013 Worlds. Other than NRW by Menshov, none had delivered international competitions that would have been sufficient for top 10 at Worlds.

Too bad Kovtun hadn't had a coach like Eteri though to whip him into shape and be more of a World medal contender, but he seems to be so obstinate that she would have tired of his attitude and sent him packing. Voronov had a much better temperament for working with her (I mean, he did win Euro medals, and a GPF bronze!).

 

[Tolstoj]

I believe Maxim Kovtun’s “popularity” started when he made the team with not deserving it placing only 5th at Nationals. I too was mad about him that time, though today I think it was rather an intrigue of his fed and his coach. Maxim doesn’t seem to be a person investing much time thinking about strategies or intrigues, but rather about rapping, bowling, etc.

Unfortunately I think that deal didn’t help his career at all. It probably would have been better for him to skate at JW that year. I still remember that case so well, cause it was the last time I was as outraged as know and posting so intensively.

You consider Maxim almost as an ex skater already when his situation is very similar to Gracie Gold in US: very successful skater at Nationals, some medals earned at GP or other competitions, big push from the federation but always disappointing at the major events (GPF and Worlds)

Maxim bad performances at WTT were the same as Gold at the Japan Open or Four Continents every year where you can clearly see she doesn't care.

 

[hanca]

Don't get me wrong. Brian is my favorite coach. I just hope you're aware of the fact that Brian would never take anyone of Eteri's student's due to the simple fact that their families have no money to pay... Sambo is helping their students financially because many of those youngsters are from very poor families.

That's not true that Brian would never take anyone of Eteri's students. He actually DID! Tursynbaeva was actually Tutberidze's student, before she moved to Brian and he took her.

 

[Hannah555]

That's not true that Brian would never take anyone of Eteri's students. He actually DID! Tursynbaeva was actually Tutberidze's student, before she moved to Brian and he took her.

But she's under Kazakhstan flag, not Russian Federation. I don't think that he's training her for free, probably Kazakhstan fed is supporting her trainings...

 

[hanca]

But she's under Kazakhstan flag, not Russian Federation. I don't think that he's training her for free, probably Kazakhstan fed is supporting her trainings...

I don't care who she skates for. You said that Orser would never take any of Tutberidze's students, so I am letting you know that he would, because he did. I can bet if Medvedeva, Tsurskaya, Zagitova or any other of her students left Tutberidze, he would take them too.

 

[moriel]

I don't care who she skates for. You said that Orser would never take any of Tutberidze's students, so I am letting you know that he would, because he did. I can bet if Medvedeva, Tsurskaya, Zagitova or any other of her students left Tutberidze, he would take them too.

If they had money to pay, surely.