Making a World Record: Hanyu's Long Program

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah but, he needs to recognized internationally for his superiority, that way there is no accusations of home cooking! His superior skating skills needs to be recognized. :luv17: how dare the judges lowball him in PCS, grrrr. As a fellow Canadian of Patrick's it's your duty.

He already has been and is recognized internationally for his superiority.

Also, FYI, even though I am a fan of Chan's, I still call out overscoring (I've said he should have lost WC2013, and also see the WTT thread where I was critical of his/Hanyu's SP PCS). When he (or any other skater) skates poorly or is overscored, I condemn bad judging. And when he (or any other skater I like, including Hanyu) wins, I certainly don't condemn the judges for not scoring him high enough.

 

[blthug]

He already has been and is recognized internationally for his superiority.

Also, FYI, even though I am a fan of Chan's, I still call out overscoring (I've said he should have lost WC2013, and also see the WTT thread where I was critical of his/Hanyu's SP PCS). When he (or any other skater) skates poorly or is overscored, I condemn bad judging. And when he (or any other skater I like, including Hanyu) wins, I certainly don't condemn the judges for not scoring him high enough.

I still think Patrick's PCS at worlds should've have been a bit higher in the long program, especially comparing his edge command and movements across the ice to the newer kids on the block (nothing against them, they just need time to mature a bit).

 

[d6886]

I just watched the video and it's great! Big thanks to everyone who worked on it. I admire how much work you put into it. I will surely watch it many more times because I can't comprehend everything at once I read the translation of Yulia's analysis before and it's even more educational that way IMO.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

If we do. You know some are more equal over here than we are.

Meanwhile the ticker at YT has gone mad - 31.000 views.

31K+ is insane! The video has 19K+ in niconico too... plus 11K+ on the video shared by Ice Skating World on fb, and several other individually shared videos on fb or vk have a few thousands of views too. Of course some of them are shared views, but the numbers themselves added up say 70K+ views in 36h

 

[DiamondDust]

Thanks for this vid. This clearly educational to me thanks for whoever made this. I would also prefer if this can be done to other skaters as well since it would be interesting, but I guess "someone" from their own fan thread should do it.

But then again, thank you for this educational video.

 

[Fayruza]

Thanks for this vid. This clearly educational to me thanks for whoever made this. I would also prefer if this can be done to other skaters as well since it would be interesting, but I guess "someone" from their own fan thread should do it.

But then again, thank you for this educational video.

well, yes, it would be better if their fans did it. Just because it's a lot of hard work, really, no matter how much it gets trivialised by some people here - and it being labour of love helps a lot.
So we're looking forward to such videos!

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Thanks for this vid. This clearly educational to me thanks for whoever made this. I would also prefer if this can be done to other skaters as well since it would be interesting, but I guess "someone" from their own fan thread should do it.

But then again, thank you for this educational video.

well, yes, it would be better if their fans did it. Just because it's a lot of hard work, really, no matter how much it gets trivialised by some people here - and it being labour of love helps a lot.
So we're looking forward to such videos!

Personally, I would be up for doing more videos like this. The problem is getting a detailed analysis like this... although maybe it doesn't have to be this detailed, but everything that breaks programs down in a useful way could work. We might try around and discuss this for a while, look through some old analysis' from Yulia and all. If we keep the video format or if things are getting changed, like some of the points mentioned here, is all up for debate for now

That said, if I'm personally up for posting these videos here again is another matter. We had the open statement that it shouldn't be here and given the way this thread went overall and how the moderator team so far went about it - taking out posts about the WR topic, changing the title, but leaving on posts that are openly disrespectful - I am not sure posting more videos like this would be welcomed by the majority of the GS stuff. But that isn't my decision alone either, so we will see.

 

[Fayruza]

Personally, I would be up for doing more videos like this. The problem is getting a detailed analysis like this... although maybe it doesn't have to be this detailed, but everything that breaks programs down in a useful way could work. We might try around and discuss this for a while, look through some old analysis' from Yulia and all. If we keep the video format or if things are getting changed, like some of the points mentioned here, is all up for debate for now

That said, if I'm personally up for posting these videos here again is another matter. We had the open statement that it shouldn't be here and given the way this thread went overall and how the moderator team so far went about it - taking out posts about the WR topic, changing the title, but leaving on posts that are openly disrespectful - I am not sure posting more videos like this would be welcomed by the majority of the GS stuff. But that isn't my decision alone either, so we will see.

well, apart from three people in the thread all the others were appreciative of your (our, but my part was tiny, really) work - even though not all are Hanyu fans. Thank you, folks - you made this thread worthwhile for me. I don't see why we should be cowered if we come up with anything like this again. We love Yuzu, we think he's special, we are unashamed about it - and we aren't putting any other skater down by doing so. So we can hold our ground and just carry on.

We invite the fans of other skaters to join the fun if they want to and if they can be bothered to be respectful and considerate both towards skaters and fans. We'd love to see similar videos with the skates of other athletes - not just for the sake of comparison, but also for the sake of learning more about skating.

 

[Neenah16]

I hope fans of other skaters will be inspired by this work and make detailed analysis for their favorite performances as well. This could be a great resource for new fans of figure skating learning about the sport.

It is also a good way to show how complex these programs are and how much effort is put into choreographing and performing them.

 

[Skater Boy]

Hanyu's freeskate was amazing though, I am in the majority, I prefer him when he can perform more and a little less focus on preparing for big jumps. I know its the name of the game but I kind of liked it just with the quad toes or even sals and 3A's. Godo balance. Now I have to admit there is a bit of stalking and while Hanyu and others too lol h ave some great inbetweens it does affect the program. And it was a well deserved highest score ever. Now the words "world record" well it was . But part of the problem with the words WR especially to the non skating fan is that in Skating the values have changed ie 3 sals and 3 T's 3 loops etcs and everything is opinino judge based for pcs it is not like a race in seconds where there is a a scientific way of "judging" so some of the cachet, prestige lacks. I did my research and see how much school figures were worth in the ancient past and then how they slowly got lowered in value to freeskating and short programs etc. Even losing compulsory dances There was even a time when there were no throws in pairs. And for some reason - tv ??? they looked so slow and the legs often bent ie Sonja Henning How do you compare a 6.0 of say rodina and zaitev v. G and G or M and D? Hanyu could be deemed the greatest male skater with a second OGM His programs are very IJS friendly ; he has it all. I think Hanyu has it; and skaters like Kwan never got "it" COP and what was needed to do well Hanyu is amazing to watch but the challenge with IJS besides the push for scoring jumps is that say a simple dramatic single axel or a gorgeous one position spin is NOT rewarded and can be costly so some of Kwan's or Kerrigan's simple moves would not get rewarded. You need to do what Hanyu do is break down each category and go for it.

 

[narcissa]

Hanyu's freeskate was amazing though, I am in the majority, I prefer him when he can perform more and a little less focus on preparing for big jumps. I know its the name of the game but I kind of liked it just with the quad toes or even sals and 3A's. Godo balance. Now I have to admit there is a bit of stalking and while Hanyu and others too lol h ave some great inbetweens it does affect the program. And it was a well deserved highest score ever. Now the words "world record" well it was . But part of the problem with the words WR especially to the non skating fan is that in Skating the values have changed ie 3 sals and 3 T's 3 loops etcs and everything is opinino judge based for pcs it is not like a race in seconds where there is a a scientific way of "judging" so some of the cachet, prestige lacks. I did my research and see how much school figures were worth in the ancient past and then how they slowly got lowered in value to freeskating and short programs etc. Even losing compulsory dances There was even a time when there were no throws in pairs. And for some reason - tv ??? they looked so slow and the legs often bent ie Sonja Henning How do you compare a 6.0 of say rodina and zaitev v. G and G or M and D? Hanyu could be deemed the greatest male skater with a second OGM His programs are very IJS friendly ; he has it all. I think Hanyu has it; and skaters like Kwan never got "it" COP and what was needed to do well Hanyu is amazing to watch but the challenge with IJS besides the push for scoring jumps is that say a simple dramatic single axel or a gorgeous one position spin is NOT rewarded and can be costly so some of Kwan's or Kerrigan's simple moves would not get rewarded. You need to do what Hanyu do is break down each category and go for it.

You think one extra quad affected his performance ability that much? In this case it might be more the "fault" of the choreography than the difficulty of the jumps. Hope and Legacy is an introspective piece. So IMO we'll have to wait and see because his programs next year will be dramatic, given it's the Olympics and all, and he's not going to have fewer than 4 quads, that's for sure.

 

[Rissa]

I really like the bullet points realized, from reading the protocols I can't easilyy know what makes judges give those GOEs.

HnL may not be a dramatic program and Hanyu's execution makes it look easy and relaxed but that video drives home how hellishly difficult it was. Deserved WR.

 

[Danibellerika]

Thank you for putting this together! I have shared with some of my other friends who watch skating as well and they think this is great; they actually learned some things! I did too! And one of my friends who will be joining me in PyeongChang wants to know more about skating so I've sent this her way so she can study what the different moves are. It's wonderful teaching tool. Thank you, thank you again!

 

[DaPurpleDino]

Thank you to the creators for the video! So much time and effort must have been spent on this so I'm in awe of the team that brought this together!
This is also a great educational video as I've been a fan for about 2-3 years and I always found steps and transitions hard to recognise (except for 3 turn and bracket lol) so now I'll be able to study this
It also shows how little room he has to breathe which is amazing because he makes it look so effortless
are there any other educational videos/resources for identifying steps?
I know there's THIS set for connecting elements and THIS one for steps (uses ice dancers)

 

[Sombreuil]

I was a lurker who made my first post on the original thread for this topic - I posted beacause the tone of the discussion annoyed me into a response, and it seems to be creeping in again.

I first became interested in figure skating in the John Curry era. There have been many popular skaters in the decades since then and fans will always go overboard when it comes to their favourites, whether it is out of patriotism or aesthetic preferences. Equally no judging system is perfect and there will always be arguments over that

I think it is important to appreciate that here, at the touch of a few buttons, one can access, with video, the world championship winning performance, with a detailed analysis of the elements and scoring. In 1976 you got a blurry late night tv clip if you were lucky. Whatever you think of their views on the score everyone should appreciate the work that has gone into making this video. People can always disagree with the views of the makers on scoring but should do so reasonably and using analysis of the elements not knee jerk reactions of dislike towards a particular fan base without properly justifying their criticisms. I think the makers of this would be pleased if other fans were to do the same for their favourite skaters programmes - I would love to see that happen - more constructive analysis and less bitching?

 

[fireovertheice]

I have found this for Evgenia Medvedeva FS at WTT (video, with protocol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzGHYdqNlTE

 

[gladiolusc]

Huh? Those were not the bullet points he should have received, you can't receive bullet points... Or am I wrong? Those were the bullet points that he satisfied, with authors providing reasons why. I That's why I'm finding this video so useful. I wish there were more of such videos, for example for Evgenia and quad meisters Boyang and Nathan. Perhaps after this one more such videos will get made.

About matching the musical structure - all Hanyu's elements do match musical structure - Shae-Lynn Bourne did a good job of finding nuances and highlighting them with elements. 4S, 3F, 4S-3T, 3A-1lo-3S, Ina Bauer and the hydroblade, step sequence and all the spin choreo was beautifully syncced with music. The 4Lo, 4T, 3A-2T and 3Lz were not placed on any particular highlights but were executed so smoothly and easily, though, that they became an integral part of the flowy music and as such matched the musical structure as well. I guess we're just used to jumps being more forceful, heavier and thus being suited to some heavier highlights.

It was all even more impressive to watch live, because the music was more encompasding and all the little details corresponding with music were much more clear.

I wasn't able to watch live, but during live stream, indeed my immediate impression was just how much every single thing flowed. The landing of a jump was the start to something else, the step sequence went into the camouflaged 3F, the ina bauer in the choreo sequence went into the 3Lz... the momentum of the program just kept going, going, going despite it being quite an understated program. And so when doing the video, and noticing that the steps sort of materialize along with each piano note, I wondered if that had helped that flowing impression. :3

 

[Rissa]

I have found this for Evgenia Medvedeva FS at WTT (video, with protocol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzGHYdqNlTE

Thank you for this! It was interesting to see the steps analysis before jumps - fir me it's always unclear where steps counting as jump entry start.

 

[DaPurpleDino]

I have found this for Evgenia Medvedeva FS at WTT (video, with protocol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzGHYdqNlTE

thank you! I finally know what that move is where she pulls her leg up and turns around - a skid spiral!

 

[Mathman]

I have found this for Evgenia Medvedeva FS at WTT (video, with protocol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzGHYdqNlTE

Thanks for the post. I agree with Moria Polonius that naming all the steps and turns was very interesting, as with the Hanyu video.

I do want to say, though, that a lot of Internet skating videos are cringeworthy because they are compiled not to celebrate a skater's performance but to make fun of the skater. This is true especially of videos that compare the compiler's favorite side by side with the compiler's not-so-favorite. To me, this is just trying to start something.

On another topic: if you have positive suggestions for the Golden Skate administrative staff about how to improve Golden Skate for all members, please post in the "Feedback" folder and not on threads in the Edge or Fan Fests.