Making a World Record: Hanyu's Long Program

[gladiolusc]

Again : I didn't say anything about the video

I would love if you did, thanks

 

[Neenah16]

The video is brilliant and the effort that has gone into making it is admirable.

Can we please not scare the people who are willing to put time and effort into something like this. Can we refrain from attacking them or making the thread a hostile place.

The video has great educational value and I appreciate the details there since I am learning about figure skating. I hope there will be other videos for more programs that we can study in the future.

 

[Diahpam]

the video is to celebrate yuzu performance in worlds and to be seen as educational tools for those who want to be more familiar with jumps, transitions, skating skill etc. It's very useful for people like me-who basically blind about those kind of things. We could see that the maker is really putting a lot of hard work there, and i really appreciate that!!! Really thank youu!! Hats off!!

Underscore or overscore is not important again. Afterall the score has been set in the stone. The most important thing is yuzu performance is such a magic! Before, i belong to those who feel that HL is cold, especially comparing to SEIMEI who i love dearly. But the world perf open my eyes of the true beauty of HL. Now it toppled SEIMEI as my fav program ever!!!

 

[Yatagarasu]

I would love to have a nice discussion because I do believe a lot of work went into making this video and I think that the annotations are incredibly helpful, at least they were to me, to truly drive the point home of not just the complexity of this skate but figure skating in general and how difficult it is to show us that and yet also strive to have an artistic side, with excellent performance and interpretation at the same time, as well as how difficult it is to choreograph all of this, in one balanced package. I knew that before seeing this but somehow I now have an even bigger appreciation for figure skating, and figure skaters in general.

I would think that all the hard work that went into this would be enough to at least show proper respect and not contribute with irrelevant nonsense that just derails the thread but I suppose not.

 

[4everchan]

Okay, well I didn't really see this video as being about a world record since that fact was barely mentioned apart from the title, but you are right that the ISU does not recognize world records (seeing how 3 of the 5 highest ladies' free skate scorers of all time came from WTT last weekend, actual numerical scores are completely meaningless to me now).

But, as an adult skater, this video was incredibly educational to me. I realized how many different steps there are in figure skating (I can only do mohawks and 3-turns and how much speed and power Yuzuru is able to gain from these difficult transitions while keeping the number of crossovers to single digits! I was able to see some small gems I missed in his program (the besti squat, the fleeting spread eagles throughout the step sequence). I realized that almost every spin position he does is a variation (the layback camel, the broken legged sit spin). And I learned that the hydroblade is actually a type of spiral As a beginner skater, this is both incredibly impressive and also motivating.

I'm also incredibly impressed by the fans who took the time to make this video, including listing out the edges (RBI, LBI), it must have taken days and a very strong magnifying lens curse: to the cameramen of this event!). Thank you all so much

i totally agree with what you wrote there. but some people are upset because i brought up the ISU regulations...

 

[teeannroo]

Please could we all focus on the video and not whether world records are valid or not? That's not the point of this thread.

Anyway, I'd like to thank all the people who made this video because it really helped me to learn how to differentiate different moves and I'll be sure to watch out for them in skaters' programs from now on

 

[Barb]

OMG!!, Thank you , that video is really educational, probably it is not perfect, but at least it is the most objetive that we can get. It would be great if the TV commentators did this at least in the olympics with the medalists, although surely it would generate much controversy.

 

[jaylee]

An impressive amount of work went into this video, so hats off to the people who worked on it.

The way it presented the GOE scores was a bit confusing. It first presents the GOE that the creators of the video believe that Yuzuru should have gotten on the element (though they don't label their opinions as an opinion--that's what makes it confusing), followed by the GOE that he actually got, followed by what the maximum GOE is (these two are labeled as such). Since the GOE that the creators propose is typically higher than what he actually got, the video makes the case that he was underscored, even though it presents itself as a "celebration" video. It seems like it's trying to have its cake and eat it too. It's a celebration video? An objective, educational video? A video arguing that Hanyu is underscored?

It has a lot of valuable, educational skating information about Yuzuru's program, but the video loses the stance of complete objectivity by inserting its argument on what Hanyu's GOE should've been. It would have been equally enjoyable, and perhaps less open to criticism, had it kept the opinion part on the GOE out of the video, or labeled those scores as the opinions of the creators of the video.

 

[fishheadanon]

Thanks to all the fans who participated in the project! It's very educational and certainly very helpful to me - it's not easy to visualize how the ISU bullet points can be realized, nor how steps and transitional elements work, especially at this high level. The information is all extremely clearly presented and even well incorporated with the music, kudos to you all. :agree:

Edit: Look, guys. The things shown in the main part of the video are objective: what Hanyu put in his program is recorded on multiple videos, ISU scoring guidelines and the scores he got are recorded in black and white. The video is just presenting facts. If you disagree with Youtube comments just don't read them, I thought we've all learned to do that by now

 

[Fayruza]

As of now, this fanmade video has been watched by over 9000 viewers within a little over a day in YT alone - and I've had dozens of feedbacks from the Russian media all saying 'thank you, that was educational and showed the depth and complexity of the program Yuzuru did" or 'Wow, we never realised he did so much!".
So... thank you, guys, proud to be involved in the project!
Totally willing to do the same about Seimei or Chopin, if you should get around to that. Not my translations, but I can sure check everything.

 

[Khoai]

An impressive amount of work went into this video, so hats off to the people who worked on it.

The way it presented the GOE scores was a bit confusing. It first presents the GOE that the creators of the video believe that Yuzuru should have gotten on the element (though they don't label their opinions as an opinion--that's what makes it confusing), followed by the GOE that he actually got, followed by what the maximum GOE is (these two are labeled as such). Since the GOE that the creators propose is typically higher than what he actually got, the video makes the case that he was underscored, even though it presents itself as a "celebration" video. It seems like it's trying to have its cake and eat it too. It's a celebration video? An objective, educational video? A video arguing that Hanyu is underscored?

It has a lot of valuable, educational skating information about Yuzuru's program, but the video loses the stance of complete objectivity by inserting its argument on what Hanyu's GOE should've been. It would have been equally enjoyable, and perhaps less open to criticism, had it kept the opinion part on the GOE out of the video, or labeled those scores as the opinions of the creators of the video.

I don't think they're trying to argue about what GOE he should have gotten. They listed out the bullets for GOE and highlight the one they think the execution hit nicely. It is quite a fair way to explain GOE criteria. Because judges at Helsinki are entirely different people from the makers of this video.

The actual GOE and the highest GOE possible for each element are not that too far off. The judges are still judging inside their corridors. Of course the scores might have gone up a bit had he skated last. But it does not matter that much.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Since the GOE that the creators propose is typically higher than what he actually got, the video makes the case that he was underscored, even though it presents itself as a "celebration" video. It seems like it's trying to have its cake and eat it too. It's a celebration video? An objective, educational video? A video arguing that Hanyu is underscored?

Yeah, I don't think one can make the "underscored" argument by looking at the program in isolation. He does have a lot of content that most of us who watch might miss. However, if the person did the same for Patrick's program, would we see that Patrick has more or less content? Also, Hanyu's jumps are not only assessed by the GOE bullets, but also the overall quality of the element. For example, in his 3A-2T, he Rippons the 2T so there is a air position variation there. Should judges assess that the same as if he Rippon'ed the 3A instead? That would be more difficult, and somehow would need to factor in to the scoring.

 

[Fayruza]

An impressive amount of work went into this video, so hats off to the people who worked on it.

The way it presented the GOE scores was a bit confusing. It first presents the GOE that the creators of the video believe that Yuzuru should have gotten on the element (though they don't label their opinions as an opinion--that's what makes it confusing), followed by the GOE that he actually got, followed by what the maximum GOE is (these two are labeled as such). Since the GOE that the creators propose is typically higher than what he actually got, the video makes the case that he was underscored, even though it presents itself as a "celebration" video. It seems like it's trying to have its cake and eat it too. It's a celebration video? An objective, educational video? A video arguing that Hanyu is underscored?

It has a lot of valuable, educational skating information about Yuzuru's program, but the video loses the stance of complete objectivity by inserting its argument on what Hanyu's GOE should've been. It would have been equally enjoyable, and perhaps less open to criticism, had it kept the opinion part on the GOE out of the video, or labeled those scores as the opinions of the creators of the video.

We'll refer you to Yulia's blog - it's her opinion what GOE each element deserved and she builds her own assessment of GOE on the analysis of the content and execution of each element.
Guys, it might be a good idea to link the English translation of Yulia's text to the video description, don't you think?

 

[Altie]

Are GOEs not supposed to be objective ?

Envoyé de mon SM-A510F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[gladiolusc]

An impressive amount of work went into this video, so hats off to the people who worked on it.

The way it presented the GOE scores was a bit confusing. It first presents the GOE that the creators of the video believe that Yuzuru should have gotten on the element (though they don't label their opinions as an opinion--that's what makes it confusing), followed by the GOE that he actually got, followed by what the maximum GOE is (these two are labeled as such). Since the GOE that the creators propose is typically higher than what he actually got, the video makes the case that he was underscored, even though it presents itself as a "celebration" video. It seems like it's trying to have its cake and eat it too. It's a celebration video? An objective, educational video? A video arguing that Hanyu is underscored?

It has a lot of valuable, educational skating information about Yuzuru's program, but the video loses the stance of complete objectivity by inserting its argument on what Hanyu's GOE should've been. It would have been equally enjoyable, and perhaps less open to criticism, had it kept the opinion part on the GOE out of the video, or labeled those scores as the opinions of the creators of the video.

For me, it's celebration and highlighting the actual details, the complexity of the performance is my main goal. I'd much rather make a video like this, and realize in a small moment of wonder that pretty much all of his footwork was on beat and matched with the music! than engage in unsubstantiated, vague comments about scoring. If I'm going to say Yuzu's program is complex, here's my best shot at showing it.

A skater's total score is ultimately made up of a 7-judge average (after taking out highest and lowest). Within a range, by definition there will always be some higher and some lower scores. This video is based on the analysis of Yulia, which we cite in the video description. The GOE scores she gives (1,2,3) are based on the bullet points she highlights and believes Yuzuru achieves with each element. "Underscore", "overscore", "within range" are thus open to viewer's interpretation. Theoretically, I don't believe in presuming a stance of complete objectivity in fact. I'd much rather opinions be substantiated to the best of our abilities.

Content-wise, I believe in keeping the complete analysis intact. Stylistically, I've highlighted the actual bullet points and kept the GOE scores to a minimal. Glad to hear your thoughts! Thanks!

 

[Danibellerika]

Thank you for putting this together! I have shared with some of my other friends who watch skating as well and they think this is great and they actually learned some things! And one of my friends who will be joining me in PyeongChang wants to know more about skating so I've sent this her way so she can study what the different moves are. It's wonderful teaching tool. Thank you, thank you again!

 

[blackey]

I wish hanyu fans would do the same for seimei and ballad 1, so I can get educated about how a top program is constructed.

 

[Ares]

Either way this video is incredible with its breakdown, you can learn so much and appreciate Hanyu's effort, its intricacy even more.

 

[Meoima]

I wish hanyu fans would do the same for seimei and ballad 1, so I can get educated about how a top program is constructed.

http://chibura.tumblr.com/post/138749555520/nhk-trophy-the-unforgettable-chopin-ballade
and http://chibura.tumblr.com/post/139311406525/hello-everyone-this-post-is-the-continuation-of

 

[Camillo]

where do i ever bash yuzuru? show me. I refrain from negatively speaking about skaters.

Sure, you input to this thread was really positive and profound

You didn't answer my first question. You never objected when Patrick's record scores were called "world records" but when Yuzuru's fans created this unique video with detalisation of his world record performance in Helsinki, your first and only reaction was to pick at the thread's title and bring in ISU regulations.

I don't think they're trying to argue about what GOE he should have gotten. They listed out the bullets for GOE and highlight the one they think the execution hit nicely. It is quite a fair way to explain GOE criteria. Because judges at Helsinki are entirely different people from the makers of this video.

Actually, I'd love to see official ISU videos like that after each season and for every discipline (at least 4 videos total selected among the best) with bullets for all elements and GOEs.
Though it would be quite difficult 'cause throughout the season all judges would had to write down somewhere their marks&notes for numerous performances